Making Money ( from Photography)

MikeGunter

Hi all,

I didn't mean to leave it where it was, since there are folks who are working as part timers and those who are going into it full time.

For the part timers. I would encourage all of you to get as familiar with your colleagues as you can. Those friendships and working relationships with either break you or make you. There's no place for professional jealously or egomania - and that's a two-way street. Be generous and kind, share what and where you can, and encourage expanding the knowledge base, take the path that more informed customers are happy customers for both you and your colleagues.

Kindness goes a long way - all of you live on referrals.

For the full timers. Same applies, but your talent goes only so far, you'll find that in time, your talent better lie in marketing.

Selling photography is one of the more elusive skill-sets a photographer has to have to continue to stay in business, regardless of other skills.

For the journalists and the folks that want to build stock files, don't pooh-pooh video.

When was the last time you held a newspaper in your hands? A magazine? Paper products are being replaced by tablets and along with that trend, video clips are needed along with stills in telling stories (perhaps more so than still images - I get more requests for video clips than stills).

Finally, and the least popular, you'll need to get expert on the tools you use. That's going to be tough. Most 'Internet' advice says to get some discs and watch some YouTube videos and you'll be a wiz in no time. I think that like saying getting a chemistry set and making gold out of lead - it's phooey. There's good classes available everywhere at great value with feedback from good instructors so can become true professionals.

As always, my very best,

Mike

Beso

Personally, I am not looking for another career either full time or part time. I had one. Now I am just looking at shooting what I want, when I want, and learning in the process. It is a tough market out there and the digital revolution has made it even more competitive. My advice to anyone wanting to make a decent living at it is go where the money is - acting, modeling, advertising. Be the best you can be and don't ever settle for "good enough."

spraynpray

I think that it must be hard to work as a pro at a wedding these days with so many 'forum experts' holding decent cameras among the guests. It must add pressure where once there wasn't any (of that type anyway).

I was asked to take some shots at a friends wedding 30 years ago and the pro was watching me out of the corner of his eye all the time. It did turn out that he had coat hangers and drain pipes coming out of peoples heads and I didn't, but I couldn't help wondering how much of that was down to the pressure of having me in the background.

These days it seems there is a lot of recommendation by social media etc. and website browsing so if you are good with people, websites, social media and and of course a camera, you're set. Then there is just the sordid part of making money.

Msmoto

I really believe any professional of merit would not be threatened by someone with a fancy camera. Now, the ones who show up with not the correct equipment, they most likely will have a reaction to someone who is not shooting the wedding professionally having the appropriate gear.

spraynpray

Agreed absolutely. The pro in my post used a Nikon though, whereas I 'only' had an Olympus OM1.

Symphotic

Agreed absolutely. The pro in my post used a Nikon though, whereas I 'only' had an Olympus OM1.

The OM1 remains one of the most beautiful pieces of industrial and optical engineering of the 20th century.

birdman

Great thread. I don't ever expect to MAKE money, just LOSE money off deflating prices when I resell and upgrade every 2-3 years. This hobby will keep me happy and busy, as well as rewarding my hard work in other aspects of life. My uncle started his own wedding business several years ago; he was the photographer & my aunt planned/organized the weddings. Now he NEVER gets hired to do pictures.
In his words "You haven't noticed that every 21 year old girl w/ a SLR is a pro photographer these days?" LOL

Rx4Photo

I just visited an Arts and Crafts fair this past weekend and spoke to a few photographers trying to sell their prints. They all had similar comments, "everyone's full of compliments, but nobody's buying." One of them told me that by the 3rd compliment you pretty much knew they weren't going to buy. Many had the usual Florida wildlife shots, the egret, Breat Blue Heron, gator, sunrise, sunset, Everglades in B&W, etc. I did not see ANY unique photos like long exposures of water, coastline, or clouds. No tilt-shift type images either. I'm also surprised that with as many ex-New Yorkers that live in Florida now that I didn't see any unique captures of the New York city skyline or Brooklyn Bridge, etc.

Everybody has camera phones and low to medium end P&S's now-a-days and feel they can capture their own photos. Throw in that Instagram look and behold.... Art! I think today to make money you'd probably have to go out on some limb, step way outside of the box, create a look or style that many wont want to or can't figure out how to duplicate. Then market like crazy.

bland

@Rx4Photo .... I agree with you completely, if you're going to sell a picture like that it better have a WOW factor.

I think people who try to make money off of their shots often times put making money over creating the shot. I think if they would reverse their logic they'd have better results in having sells.

SquamishPhoto

Making money with your camera generally boils down to how well you can market yourself to the public and how effectively you can work with clients to understand what it is that they want from you while having the requisite skills and equipment to execute and provide satisfying results. Your demeanour with the client before, during the shoot and in post communication as well as prompt delivery of finished results can help provide future revenue through return business as well as possible referrals to other clients.

spraynpray

+1 to that Squamish.

sevencrossing

+ 2 Squamish. Understanding what the clients want is the key , and it can be quite a challenge.

Msmoto

+3...Squamish you have hit it on the head...communication....and responding to the client's needs and desires.

sevencrossing

One thing to bear in mind

There is a very big difference between making some money and making a living

When I started this thread i was thinking about make a bit of money

I stared off aged 15 as a professional photographer but gave up after 15 years as I could never make enough money to buy a house

Having changed jobs ( I become a hot air balloon pilot ) I bought a house
and am now "somewhat retired"

I now manage to make a bit of money from photography

but I think I would struggle to make a sensible living

blu

How to make a small fortune in the photography business? Start with a large fortune.

LOL!!!

ibecamewe

I think you are not interested in wedding photography but I am specialist on wedding photography. You can make lots of money by the wedding photography.
visit my site for how to shoot wedding photography

moreorless

@Rx4Photo .... I agree with you completely, if you're going to sell a picture like that it better have a WOW factor.

I think people who try to make money off of their shots often times put making money over creating the shot. I think if they would reverse their logic they'd have better results in having sells.

I think theres alot of truth in this, digital has IMHO really destroyed(or at least massively devalued) the market for the "picture postcard" print. Many people may overestimate there own ability to take such shots but overall I think todays buyer is a better judge of quality than in the past leaving not much room for the "camera operator" in the art market.

My expereince is pretty limated but by en large the prints that have sold best for me have also been my own favourites that I put the most work into, not "gimmicks" but dynamic composition and lighting on more simple subjects (interestign trees, Weather, patterns in the landscape etc).

RenardRichie13

I'm gonna pitch in on this.

I studied photography B&W in college dark room, etc how to make proper exposure, dodging, burning. Taking roll of film off in a pitch black room millions successes some fail (like dropping the entire container in a dark room on the floor (film roll still in hand and you have to feel the entire floor finding it. caps and all.

Long story short. If you wanna make money in photography i feel that you have to have the capital first. I ended up getting that photography classes as an intro of what's to come and merely figuring out exposure and the value of proper shots and composition. I went to web design, still in the web design field for 4 and a half years before i started to get into photography again. Now on the weekends i shoot weddings. This is my second year (first year i got 4 weddings) this year about 15. I already got 5 booked for next year. I've had to increase my price from $1500 to $2500 in about half a year. Some bride and groom told me they booked me before i get expensive.

I feel that i might go full time if this entire thing kicks off and I am overwhelmed with the amount of weddings per year.

Yes i do think you can make money off wedding. No, I do not think I'm good yet. The day that I'm contempt with my skills and photos, that is the day I'll retire. I have lots to learn, that's the beauty of it. It is my passion.
Whenever I shoot weddings i got tingling feeling on my stomach. I never felt that way about any other job.
If it is your passion you'll find your way. It is not about money, it will come after. I have accepted $500 wedding, $800 wedding, $300 wedding. For the fact that i'm chasing the photos that i'll create instead of the money. I know that i may be self contradictory I raised my price and all, but trust me. It is a journey. The more fun you have doing it, the better your photos will be and money will just come after that.

But without a capital to invest on camera, equipment, websites, usb packages or dvd if you're still on that technology haha (playful jab). I think its going to be hard to start.

AtlantaTerry

No wonder it is increasingly hard to make a living as a photographer. Too many of you here are giving away your work.

RenardRichie13

@AtlantaTerry

I understand the sentiment. I had to get couple portfolio on my belt first to be comfortable to charge a lot for a wedding. I won't do such charity work anymore however.

Someone somewhere have to start somewhere. I'm not about to embark on a 9 years second shooting journey to be a first photographer when i know that my stuff is at least okay.

Rx4Photo

I've recently agreed to do my "very first" wedding for $750. No photo editing necessary (the groom is proficient in Photoshop and wants to do it all himself), I can use any files in my portfolio as I wish. It's not until next Spring....that gives the couple plenty of time to change their minds about using me. Bwa ha ha ha..

RenardRichie13

@RX4photo

Moving forward. You shouldn't give out your raw files anymore and you should edit your own photos. That guy can blow smoke and say he is the best photoshop artist out there but in reality. That is your photo he is editing. He doesn't have your vision. You should know by now that a good photo can even be destroyed by horrible editing. To end this on a positive note, wedding photography is fun and there are so much creative shots you can do throughout the day. It is combining fashion (pose shots), photo journalism, food (cake), macro (ring). It forces you to be a resourceful and smart photographer to capture the shots. I hope you're addicted with it as I am in the end of that wedding .

sevencrossing

.....my "very first" wedding for $750. ...... I can use any files in my portfolio as I wish. ..

Seems a good deal to me

.................that gives the couple plenty of time to change their minds about using me

which is why most people take a deposit

Rx4Photo

@ RenardRichie13, I've come across that recommendation before and have given it some consideration. This is a co-worker and friend of mine who's still in college and trying to save as much money as possible in this process. My speculation of how this might play out is this: he's big into making photobooks via Adobe Bridge and Photoshop "but" I daresay my portrait retouching skills are better than his. After he sees a few samples of my images he might just wait for me to deliver a few retouched files to him. Compensation will be discussed for that.

@ sevencrossing, yeah, we've already discussed drawing up a little paperwork and deposit. Wouldn't want to ruin a working relationship over a handshake.

RenardRichie13

@rx4photo

I was just looking out for you hehe. Btw I have a contract that basically asked for 40% non refundable deposit to book the date. Also a month before the wedding full payment must be made.

I have shot a co worker wedding before and he signed the contract.

It is good in case anything happen. Not gonna ruin friendship.