Making Money ( from Photography)

Msmoto

@RenardRichie13

My demonstration was the issue of technical merit. One's website should have no photos which are not first class. Additionally, one's interactions with the public, delivery of the finished product, all have to be top drawer. And, when we see so many who are inconsistent with this, they are the ones who give the market a black eye.

Having looked at the one's above, these are first rate photographers. If this is what you aspire to, you have my blessing. Good direction to go....

MikeGunter

Hi all,

@RenardRichie13 Your market is exactly his. People who want pictures that tell compelling stories. You really need to see that and aspire to that.

Good photographers live in South Dakota or Ecuador or Bumdunk Arkansas. It's parochial to think otherwise, in talent and scope of style and ability. A storyteller can tell many stories.

The type of photography you should do is good photography, and if it is professional photography, it should pay your bills.

My best,

Mike

RenardRichie13

I wanted to say thank you for the discussion. It really does help seeing what other people are seeing.

sevencrossing

. All in 120k per year.

One very important point, which I suspect you are aware of ; do not confuse turnover with profit.
Some film photographers went out of business, because they had not taken into account the deprecation of their equipment

dissent

Not the same thing as "making money", but not unimportant either.

http://photographylife.com/defining-success

Rx4Photo

I'd also like to say thanks for this discussion here as I've learned a lot and it's made me really think hard about what (or if) I'd like to do anything over and above shooting for my hobby purposes. I know I don't have the time to do what you're doing RenardRichie13 or Sevencrossing. What I do have time for is an occasional photo shoot and I do have the drive and desire to create beautiful portraiture beyond the look of snapshots. I'll continue to work on that and set up my website but include other genres such as my best landscapes, nature, ocean views and such. I want a little exposure but more like in baby steps...and see where that takes me.

Golf007sd

@Rx4Photo: I wish you all the best.

RenardRichie13

@Rx4Photo. I can't wait to see your photos

Benji2505

IMHO the first step would be to understand the different segments of the photography market (News, event, portrait, fine art, fashion, stock, etc.). If you want to get a foot in the door, you probably have to pick one segment. Then I would think about which segments are stable or growing and which segments are going down (Stock, news?). Then you have to understand the clients, e.g. Who they are, where you can meet them when they are shopping and what they are looking for. In the end you have to understand what your life will look like when you have an established biz in this segment. Example: wedding photographers work when all others are off -what does that mean for your family or yourself?

RenardRichie13

@Benji. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Here is an interesting video from what i drew on your example.

Photophun

Want to feel good about your skills and at the same time understand why the bottom end of the photography market is dropping to new low standards? Just search on Craigslist for a photographer in your area. Weddings for $50 an hr was my favorite one. In the end you are only as good as the product you create.

framer

Without re-reading this whole thread. I think we need to divide the question into, making money with photography or making a living with photography? There is a difference in IMHO. I've also felt over the years that the personality of the photographer/artist has a direct effect of how much they ultimately make.

My2cents

framer

sevencrossing

. I think we need to divide the question into, making money with photography or making a living with photography? There is a difference in IMHO.

There is a indeed a very big difference

This thread was intended to be about making money from photography even if its only a few $ or £

but like most threads on this forum, it has gone off in different directions

Perhaps, one of those rare people, who has actually succeeded, in making a living form photography, would like to start one

kyoshinikon

All I can say is this making a living off photography is 15% photography, 20% editing, 5% sleeping/driving/eating and 60% marketing... Also if you want to make a living, don't move to socal!

sevencrossing

All I can say is this making a living off photography is 15% photography, 20% editing, 5% sleeping/driving/eating and 60% marketing... Also if you want to make a living, don't move to socal!

my experience

20% photography; 20% editing and admin ; 40% trying to understand the clients needs; 20% marketing .

Eating and sleeping ? you must be joking

kyoshinikon

Lol I tell clients what they want... Reading them is like reading the face of a poker champ...

Golf007sd

I was going over some statistic and came upon this via Bureau Of Labor Statistics, regarding those that have labeled themselves as Professional Photographers or those that generate their income from photography.

Mean annual wage: $36,330

Photobug

and gas was 29cents per gallon, a candy bar was 5 cents, you could buy a new car for $2200.00 and rent a small apt on the beach in Florida for $90 per month. I remember those days. Multiply the 490 x 10 for today value.

Don't get me started...
framer

My 2nd SLR was a Nikon and I paid $119.95 for it. My oh my how times have changed. In fact I kept that 1st Nikon for 18 months sold it for $100 and bought the replacement for $125.

Ade

I was going over some statistic and came upon this via Bureau Of Labor Statistics, regarding those that have labeled themselves as Professional Photographers or those that generate their income from photography.

Mean annual wage: $36,330

It's usually better to use median pay rather than mean pay to avoid skew. The median pay for photographers in 2012 was $28,490 per year, $13.70 per hour.

BLS profile for photographers:

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Media-and-Communication/Photographers.htm

The "Job Outlook" tab predicts 4% annual employment growth to 2022, which is very anemic but at least is not declining.

michael66

It's usually better to use median pay rather than mean pay to avoid skew. The median pay for photographers in 2012 was $28,490 per year, $13.70 per hour.

Of course, either way; mean or median, that figure is not much above the poverty line. But I would temper my feelings with the knowledge that the classification of 'professional' photographer includes the masses of shooters you see at all the parks. And that job is just a cut above minimum wage workers.

mikep

like any other business: you have to separate yourself from the pack. As a Professional Photographer you should not fear me (the enthusiast hobbyist) or any "Tom-Dick-or-Harry" with a camera...regardless of what his or her gear is.

this is exactly it imo

its just supply and demand, you have to know what the service you provide is worth, factor in costs and sell it like any other product.

however, i do think photography is a bit weird these days. my reasoning goes something like this:

1) rise of youtube
2) cameras also shoot video
3) lots of photographers / videographers had the skills and equipment to produce youtube content and started making tons of good photography related videos
4) photography became a lot more popular (and affordable), and millions bought cameras
5) many thought "hey i wanna be a photographer now"!

so, these days its just very popular, with many people trying to get involved, and many with no clue about business (who are ultimately bound to fail). but, even so, it is pretty bad for the business of photography ..... i see websites in my area offering photo sessions for ~$40 ...... which is just silly and completely unsustainable.

in balance to this increased supply however, i also think that the demand for images is higher than ever and still set to increase. the web was initially very text heavy, perhaps with a few complimentary images to run alongside, but these days, websites are much more image-orientated; images and text are of equal importance. add to that the blogosphere, and the many many folks who want an online business and need photos of their products / services and there is - imo - greatly increased demand for photography services.

i would be wary about offering services for free, in fact i find it quite insulting when asked for freebees myself. if someone considers my time as worth $0 (let alone the equipment and experience, image rights, etc), then hey, my answer will be "no thanks". the last time someone asked me to do a charity gig where "no pay was available", my reply was "sure, i will work for you for 3 hours if you work for me for 3 hours cleaning my bathroom. she turned the offer down of course. maybe you think i am mean, but i just believe in reciprocity; what's fair is fair. i have done free gigs mind you, ones which allowed me access to images that i really wanted to get. i suppose you have to play it by ear and value yourself correctly. generally speaking, once you have a portfolio you should not be working for free imo.

i got into photography because i was working as a web designer, and these days, being able to create images for the websites you make is extremely useful and a great selling point. eventually i decided to give the photography business a go, and i got a job working for an event photo company last year but quit about 6 weeks ago, as i have some others things going on, so i am not chasing money in photography at the moment. i am sure i will get involved again sooner or later. there is a lot of demand out there; understand that your photography services are a product, price them correctly, advertise and sell yourself.

WestEndBoy

This was an interesting thread. There is no way photography will replace my day job, but if I improve on my technique, maybe I could "do favors for lens".

michael66

maybe I could "do favors for lens".

LOL

Well, in high school and college, I made enough money to buy new equipment and pay for all the supplies I used up in the darkroom. Cheerleaders love getting their picture taken when they know you and can get copies. Got a few numbers along the way. Those were simpler times. ::sigh::

ptrmcky

I started making money in photography by setting up a small studio and frame workshop. I was an avid hobbyist, and wanted to try making some money from it. I thought I would hit the contemporary family portrait market to make money, and pick up editorial work and other interesting things as I went along.

I rented an office and bought some studio strobes, but realised pretty quickly that families aren't going to pay any decent amount of money to get their photos on a disk. So since I'm impulsive and had already invested in a studio, and not being the sort of person to do things half assed, I ended up buying all of the tools a framer would need to set up shop. It has been a freaking logistical nightmare, but hey, I'm now making good money from my studio work, and I do still get to do fun stuff once in a while. Last year I was in the right place at the right time and got to shoot for World Vision and TOMS.

It turned out a bunch of framing shops had closed in my area over the past couple of years so there was a lot of decent 2nd hand framing stuff for sale and nobody looking to buy it.

A lot of things fell into place for things to work out so well for me. I would recommend anyone else looking to start a photography business plans it out a bit better than I did.

tcole1983

My goal has never been to make money. I would just like to supplement money I have spent on equipment. If I could get my equipment paid for and still have it for personal use I would be very happy.