Nikon Df General Discussion

Photobug

Darn typo...thanks, I fixed the post. Yes 58mm F1.4. Thanks

Photobug

So Nikon releases a retro lens for the Df. Liked that idea until I see that Canon just released a 50mm F/1.0. That is pretty fast but so expensive.

PB_PM

They did, when? None of the big photography sites, or Canon rumor sites are talking about it. If you are talking about the 50mm F1.2L, that's been around for a while.

shawnino

Canon had one of those, what 20 years ago, but I haven't heard of a re-issue.

Count me as 'confused' on the DF. Priced at/above D800/E, I just don't get it.

donaldejose

New Cannon 50mm f1.0 lens.? Looks like someone is reading KR's site but not closely enough to realize he is reviewing an old, not new, lens.

WestEndBoy

Speaking of KR, I notice he is promoting an ebay seller that is selling a used 13mm f/5.6 for $50k. I wonder what his commission is?

sevencrossing

shawnino I just don't get it.
I am not getting one ether

WestEndBoy

Someone earlier commented about the "Armani suit". While I would pick Canali for that analogy, I think it is apt. Appreciating the DF is like appreciating a high end European suit or sports car. Most don't or do and can't afford it. Some think it is a waste of money.

If Nikon has 10 different cameras and 90% think each camera sucks but the other is great, they will sell a camera to everyone on the planet that can afford one as long as the groups are mutually exclusive. I think that is the important consideration.

Time will tell how smart Nikon is regarding the Df.

For me, I would get the DF if I could afford two FX DSLRs and slap my MF 50mm 1.2 on it to indulge in "pure photography". However, forced to choose, I would choose the superior image performance of my D800. Note that it is superior image performance "for me". The low light performance on the D800 is "good enough" "for me". My third digital camera will be a Neica if Nikon every gets around to producing one.

Ade

I wear Armani and I don't consider the analogy appropriate.

Nikon isn't Leica or Hasselblad. Nikon is not a luxury brand, and the Df does not define a new premium segment in Nikon's product line. Indeed, the Df's position is below the D4 and the D800/e in pecking order and price.

The Df can't be compared to a "European sports car" because it is a neutered product: a low fps version of the D4, with inferior autofocus, single card slot, and no video capabilities. Instead of a sleek Porsche, Nikon has given us the faux-retro Volkswagen Beetle. Big difference.

There will be two main camps of people who will buy the Df. First and foremost, the Df will appeal to those who really want a Leica but can't afford it. Yet compared to a Leica, the Df is a cheap suit, off the rack. Nothing luxury or premium or "European" about that.

The second, smaller camp the Df appeals to are those who really yearn for the retro feel. Here the Df isn't a bad choice, but the true aficionados who aren't brand conscious are already shooting Fuji, and/or going back to real film cameras.

heartyfisher

@Ade .. mostly agree ! nicely summed up. except the "Cheap suit" part .. Like the VW analogy.

I almost got a fuji about a month ago(was going to swap systems, and I still keep eyeing the new X-E2), but the arrival of the Df changes the balance again. A major part of my purchase decisions involve listing and linking(relationships) the features and assigning my weighting for each. The Df messes with that methodology big time! new columns of features needs to be added to my list with new feature relationships in new dimensions. and the whole weighting needs to be reassessed.. sigh .. :-D fun times ;-)

Re the yearn for the "retro feel" I dont think its accurate. Although the people who would be the first to appreciate the knobs and dials are the people who have used them before (on the old FE etc). The design and user interface which uses knobs and dials can and do stand on its own merit. The Df design is in no way hamstrung by any kind of appendix like appendage due to archaic nostalgia. In many ways it has advantages over the D610 and even the D800 UI.

Nick2013

I'll start by saying I haven't read the whole thread.

There is a long tradition of special edition cameras being sold in the Japanese market. Almost always going largely to collectors who would put them in display cases. In many cases the editions end up sold out before they offi

And no Armani isn't a high end European suit. It's a label for people who are worried about the label and not the product.

Symphotic

I wear Canali. It looks good with my X100s.

Ade

@Symphotic

Right on.

@nick:

The Df is not a special edition camera. The only part that is "special edition" is the retro-styled 50mm/1.8G lens.

@heartyfisher:

Some thoughts on the Df knobs & dials:

- For the shutter speed, unless one is willing to be artificially limited to full-stops, the shutter dial has to be left at the "1/3 STEP" setting. Shutter speed is then controlled using the rear command dial, no different than on other Nikon bodies.

- For the aperture, when using the "Special Edition" 50mm/1.8G there is no aperture ring anyway, and the front command dial must be used to change aperture, like on other Nikon bodies.

So even though the knobs and dials are there, for the most part they are just decoration. I think most Df users will just set the mode to "A" and use the command dial to change aperture. Maybe the ISO dial will get the most use.

Sure, one can use the traditional aperture ring on non-G lenses, but we can do that on modern-style Nikon bodies as well via a simple menu change.

heartyfisher

@Ade I agree that the ISO Dial is the most useful of the dials. You may be right about the Shutter speed and Aperture settings, I am sure many will feel the same as you. But, I see nothing wrong with setting full stops for shutter speed and aperture. I am sure there will be many who would be happy to do that manually via the dials (You can on average get at least 0.5 ev accuracy). In most situations that is sufficient. (Exposure accuracy is not an issue esp with the DR of the sensor and the standard workflow these days is to do some level of PP)

I think someone mentioned that when you are in the "Zone" manually setting shutter and aperture( and now ISO ) could be done subconsciously. Like driving a manual car, before you know it you have arrived, not even remembering each time you have pressed the clutch, changed the gear and coordinated the clutch and accelerator. vs pressing the accelerator only in an automatic car.

Photobug

I was at the local camera dealer today and no Df or 58mm F1.4 lens. Talked to the manager and he only has two coming to his store and 8 going to their other two stores in town.

They are having a Nikon, Tamron, Sony, Canon day on Dec 13th and the Nikon representative will have a Df and all the new lens with him so customers can look them over. I always go to these camera expos to check out what is new plus it tends to feed that Nikon buying disease. These expos get busy so I have arranged a private meeting with the Nikon representative to check out the new Df, 58mm, and 80-400 lens. This one-on-one time with the representative is a lot better than three people at the table looking at point & shoot and DSLRs. Looking forward to checking out the new gear.

Also agree that a lot of Df buyers will put it into auto mode. Sad but true.

Mac_The_Knife

.

Also agree that a lot of Df buyers will put it into auto mode. Sad but true.

But at least they help keep the price down for those of us that may want a D4 sensor in an inexpensive body.

heartyfisher

@photobug LOL! you do mean 58 instead of 55 right ? :-)

Photobug

heartyfisher I should know better than leave messages late at night. Thanks.

mikep

for me, when all is said and done about this camera, many points are debatable, but that AF system is just not good enough for an FX camera

i couldnt care less how good the sensor is, what ISO it is capable of, how much the price drops, how well built it is, etc etc. that AF is just not acceptable as it is not practically up to the job.

and also, while i understand and accept the need to hamper lesser models so as to protect sales of their flagship cameras, at this price point this camera is a premium item and does not deserve to be crippled in this way, especially when considering nikon have had better AF systems available for 5+ years

spraynpray

It will be interesting to read the tests to see what it is really like Mike.

The latest Canon AF system is supposed to be pretty excellent BTW.

donaldejose

When the camera is out and tested its weaknesses will be noted. We can expect follow-up versions to address some of those weaknesses over the years.

I have used this same AF system for many years in the D7000 and in the D600. It is fine as long as you don't shoot fast moving sports or often use a sole AF point on the edge of the AF Area. Of course, you can always focus, hold focus and recompose. I don't think people will be buying the Df for sports.

spraynpray

The trouble is, we are all stupid gearheads who expect everything to change unreasonably. Although the testers may make a big deal of it 'only' being the D7000/D600 system, that AF system may be entirely adequate for the DF's target market. Also, all the people here who say 'wow! a D4 sensor cheap!' are way off in thinking it is going to be a second body that can be used interchangeably with their D800 IMHO. It is what it is and hopefully, it will sell well.

donaldejose

Right spraynpray. The whole point of those "pure photography" videos was to 1. think carefully about the photo. 2. put the setting in the camera before you even bring it to eye level (that is why you can read the dials on the top of the camera) and finally 3. compose and shoot. Fast AF is not needed for any of this. In fact, the real "pure photography" cameras like the FM2 had one central microprism split viewfinder focus screen - remember, just one focus spot in the middle of the viewfinder! So the system in the D600 (with all its flaws) is very adequate for "pure photography." Of course, the Df won't be a good sports stop action camera but that is not the target user group.

WestEndBoy

Ade said:
"I wear Armani and I don't consider the analogy appropriate.Nikon isn't Leica or Hasselblad. Nikon is not a luxury brand, and the Df does not define a new premium segment in Nikon's product line. Indeed, the Df's position is below the D4 and the D800/e in pecking order and price."

And neither is Armani a Leica or Hasselblad. For that analogy, you would need Brioni or Tom Ford. Canali is probably a better description, but not quite a good enough build quality.

I have owned every brand mentioned in this post except Canali, as it does not do made to measure (or is not available in Canada at least). I now buy my suits made to measure from a guy that sells Armani and a Canadian brand called Samuelsohn. Samuelsohn is a little known (in the states) Montreal company with a premiere Black Label 1923 collection. Like the DF, this is a "Pure Clothing" line that goes back to Samuelsohn's origins when it was founded in 1923. When he sells Armani made to measure, for an extra $1,600, you get more handwork - so you are probably at $5,000 plus for a suit. This is the same handwork that is available in the Black Label 1923 line for less than $2,500. If I thought that people on this form had heard of Samuelsohn, I would have used that label, not Armani, which requires spending a huge premium just to get decent quality.

I am a bit of a clothing geek as my first career was a suit tailor and sales person.

So I stand corrected. I will compare the DF to Samuelsohn's Black Label 1923, not Armani. I would actually compare Armani to Sony as I consider both labels quite flaky and Canali to Nikon's professional line (both of these labels are solid value without going overboard).

And now I am wondering if we are taking these metaphors too far. Armani = Hasselblad, Df = Samuelsohn Black Label 1923........really? Not even I agreed with my original quote in its literal form, but I thought it was good enough to make the point until I was forced to dissect it. I could dissect my above comments and point out "logical errors", but what would be the point?

Does anybody on this forum consider this "dissection of metaphors" relevant?

Ade

In my mind, Giorgio Armani, Leica, and Hasseblad are all "luxury" brands sold through specialty retailers. Try as you might, can't buy a Giorgio Armani suit at a Walmart or even at Nordstrom. Armani Collezioni perhaps at Nordstrom, but not a Giorgio. Similarly you're not going to find a Leica or Hasselblad at your local Best Buy.

But you can go to Walmart or Best Buy and buy a D800 -- and in the future, the cheaper Df as well if there is enough demand for it. That's the distinction. Nikon products are mass-market, not specialty luxury. The Df brings back the retro style but doesn't define a new premium line within Nikon.