Nikon Df General Discussion

donaldejose

I do hope the Df will be just the first in a line of bodies with that "retro" user interface for those who like it. As for myself, I will stick to the modern well-honed ergonomic design.

WestEndBoy

I do hope the Df will be just the first in a line of bodies with that "retro" user interface for those who like it. As for myself, I will stick to the modern well-honed ergonomic design.

It is a well honed design for sure. If I was a professional, a DF would not be of interest to me.

Nikon did not include a second card slot with the DF. It seems Nikon sees it that way too.

Fritz

Perhaps there is a case to be made for a purely recreational camera in this discussion. I presently own a D4 and I have owned a D800 and both are high performance cameras purpose superb for their specific applications. But I've got to say that there are times when humping a D4 is just a pain in the neck; I mean the camera is bulky and heavy and so when I'm not working I leave it at home when I really should carry it. So what's wrong with a second camera that's just plain fun to shoot? Over the years there have been lots of cameras that I've respected but only two that I really loved, namely an F3 and a D700 because for me they were both plain fun. I had the chance yesterday to handle and shoot a DF with the Sigma 35 1.4 Art lens on it and I really had fun. Sure, its a bit gimmicky, but its small and light and points and handles well and the controls for me were intuitive and certainly the camera is capable of first class imagery. So other than the price what's not to like? And how do you price fun- I mean isn't value a subjective thing?

donaldejose

Fritz: Sure, but wouldn't a D610 with a Sigma 35 f1.4 Art lens have been just as light and just as much fun without the gimmicky controls? And at a much lower price?

Fritz

Donaldejose; Yes, but my point was more that there are times when we bond to things in ways that are not rationally quantifiable. I suspect that if we always purchased items based upon a cost benefit analysis then Detroit and the auto industry would be in big trouble. Having said that, I do agree that the DF will have a limited appeal in the US and other western markets but from what I understand, the camera is quite popular in some asian markets. So, in my case, I respect my D4 but i don't shoot it just for fun. I loved my D700 right up to the time last summer when some SOB stole it from me. I'm going to have another chance to shoot my friend's DF and if I get the warm fuzzy's from it who knows?

NikonMick

I'm potentially a purchaser of a "retro" body with both backward compatability and the sensor as used in the DF, with its great potential.

However, Nikon will need to produce a different form factor to capture the retro/I-was-filmer/hipster market. That body should be closer to the FM/FE series bodies, or even the Nikkormat series, rather than look like a Canon G1 body, as I characterise the DF form factor.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68039985@N08/11213892414/in/photostream

Meanwhile, I've just purchased a NOS D3100 (new old stock) as a backup body, and can wait until an excellent version of a digital Nikkormat arrives.

Mick

Photobug

I

Meanwhile, I've just purchased a NOS D3100 (new old stock) as a backup body, and can wait until an excellent version of a digital Nikkormat arrives.

Mick, good for you. Great backup. Target had them on sale last week with the kit lens for $298.

spraynpray

Such a good idea to buy an entry level DSLR as a carry camera because it is small, light AND reduces expenditure by using lenses you already have so you don't end up with two disparate systems. Also at the current 24 MP resolution has all the performance you need. Even a D3100 has very good performance.

WestEndBoy

Such a good idea to buy an entry level DSLR as a carry camera because it is small, light AND reduces expenditure by using lenses you already have so you don't end up with two disparate systems. Also at the current 24 MP resolution has all the performance you need. Even a D3100 has very good performance.

That is a good idea. My carry camera is the Coolpix A with its DX sensor and the best 28mm (35mm equivalent) lens in Nikon's lineup. As a prime, not very flexible though........

NikonMick

WestEndBoy said:

"As a prime, not very flexible though........"

I think primes can be quite flexible, as long as the 'tog uses his or her feet, for example:

Landscape useage of 35/f1.8 DX:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68039985@N08/9621548298/in/photostream

Close shot using tripod, also 35/f1.8 DX:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68039985@N08/8289145548/in/photostream

Mick

WestEndBoy

WestEndBoy said:

"As a prime, not very flexible though........"

I think primes can be quite flexible, as long as the 'tog uses his or her feet, for example:

Landscape useage of 35/f1.8 DX:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68039985@N08/9621548298/in/photostream

Close shot using tripod, also 35/f1.8 DX:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68039985@N08/8289145548/in/photostream

Mick

Completely agree, though lots of people don't. I was just acknowledging their perspective.

Fritz

I had a second session with a DF and it is a fun camera but I bought a 610 for a second body.

Fritz

Yes indeed! And since I already own the lens I could look for a cherry mint low click F3 High Point with a speed winder and a 50/1.4 to indulge my bid to regain my mis-spent youth.

Ade

Wise choice Fritz. I regret selling my F3HP to buy an F4 a long time ago. Funny enough, back then I lusted after an even older, fully manual camera -- the F2AS -- the original 'retro' camera to me.

Fritz

My 2nd F3 now belongs to a relative who shoots film exclusively and has a great darkroom set up so it is where it should be. It has many thousands of cycles and even the LED is still functional. My last 35 mm was an F5 that I sold to buy my D700. To add to my comments about the DF, it has a more solid feel to it than 610 and the viewfinder is brighter. With both cameras I believe I would and will bias matrix and center weighted metering under by at least a 1/6th. Spot metering I'd leave as metered. For general use I use AF constant with focus release and the focus point center locked. With those settings the frame rate of the DF is a bit higher it seems, at least anecdotally. I may get a chance to shoot the DF again in the next couple of weeks and if I do I'll try to shoot some side by sides of a high contrast scene i.e., high noon, evergreens against white snow and some low light interior stills just for fun.

Photobug

Wise choice Fritz. I regret selling my F3HP to buy an F4 a long time ago. Funny enough, back then I lusted after an even older, fully manual camera -- the F2AS -- the original 'retro' camera to me.

+1 Ade.

I loved my F3HP and I also sold it to buy the F4. F4 was a good camera but that F3PH was a workhorse. The F4 buyer really did not appreciate what he got, it was sad, and that money went to purchase the D200.

I really enjoyed the F4 and loved the ergonomics. Wish I could have kept the F3HP but film was dieing fast at that time..

shawnino

Main blog now reporting that D800s to be introduced this year.
This should put the existing D800 $100 UNDER the Df instead of $100 over.
Anybody like to make the argument that somebody should eschew the D800 to actually spend more money on this thing?

WestEndBoy

Perhaps not, but the DF will be my second FX body. I am not worried about the price. Let's concede that it is over priced by a thousand based on your technical checklist. However, for what I want that is compensated for by it's non-technical merits. For anybody that wonders what they are, read this thread from the beginning.

If a thousand bucks was a real consideration for me, the DF would be my first "fun" camera and the D610 would be my "serious" second camera, not the D800.

I am an amateur with deep enough pockets to buy the gear that I want without having to worry about price. I am in this hobby to have fun, not be judged by a bunch of technicians, which I find reduces the "fun" that I am having in this hobby.

If you are a professional, I get that. The omission of a second card slot disqualifies the DF from the get go. Nikon is not stupid, the DF was not made for a professional.

So to the professionals, stop whinning about the DF, or at least whine about something equally irrelevant. To the amateurs, stop whinning that Nikon chose to sell fun to somebody else, not you.

Sorry Shawnino, this was not aimed at you specifically, but the "general tone" of "some" of the points of view on this thread (some of the points of view on this thread I am in agreement with). And to many that have displayed that tone, please don't take it personal. I am guilty of other transgressions. Otherwise, I enjoy many of your views.

But I think we need to step back and think about the people that are into photography to have fun, and frankly, provide Nikon with the revenue to provide us "high end amateurs" and professionals the toys and tools that we want. We should be glad that this is not "PentaxRumours" or even worse, "KonicaRumours".

Fritz

I agree with WestEndBoy. I hope we never forget that photography is a hobby for the vast majority of us and as such, recreation and personal artistic fulfillment are wholly reasonable end goals. From my limited experience with a DF I found it to be a bit quirky and very competent and I was quite attracted to it. If someone bonds to this camera and finds years of recreational enjoyment from their ownership then I submit that the original cost is irrelevant.

donaldejose

Now that's a compelling argument!

shawnino

@WEB: I don't take anything personally, ever. Maybe I should start but I can't. I really like this paragraph you wrote, as it closes the debate quite nicely:

"So to the professionals, stop whinning about the DF, or at least whine about something equally irrelevant. To the amateurs, stop whinning that Nikon chose to sell fun to somebody else, not you."

That's awesome. So if you're a working tog, who might have an educated opinion because photography is your career, you have no right to be displeased because this product wasn't meant for you. If you're an amateur who needs to spend $3K more carefully, you have no right to be displeased because you just don't matter.


@PB: you write in part:

DF +$50. = D610 + D7100

and explain that it's all good because Nikon needs a larger number of conspicuous consumers. I think you're right here, and I'm at peace with that -- as long as Nikon isn't starting the process of completely selling out to soccer moms who demand the latest D3x00 be less than 12 months old and to Pure Photographers(tm) who buy the Df. I'm not claiming Nikon is there yet, I'm not even sure they're headed that way, but I've unfortunately lived long enough to see what happened to Leica.

Suppose I had lots of money 25 years ago. I might have randomly gone Leica instead of Nikon. I worked summers at newspapers, so, hey, Cartier-Bresson and all that. So I'd be used to rangefinders, I'd likely have a good glass collection by now, and my choices are:
--Film, with product lines getting discontinued regularly
--5-year-old sensor tech on digital M
--Another body (A7?) with adapter, which might not let my glass be at its best
--Starting over with either modern mirrorless or DSLR.

I hope Nikon isn't starting down the same path. I look at D800/e and D4/s and hope for the best. If I needed or wanted a D400 (I don't), I'd probably see the glass as half-empty.

Fritz

Oh come on; if you're a pro its a tool and its all about cost effectiveness, if you're an amateur its about fun, why can;t we leave it at that.

TaoTeJared

@WestEndBoy & @Fritz - Don't get put off by the "overpriced crowd" - the same three have been banging the same drum over and over for 27 pages now. They just haven't came to terms that the dreams of a "true D700 replacement" was nothing more than a happy LSD trip.

Personally I keep looking at the Fujifilm X-T1. But I will go back to what that would cost: 28,35,50,85mm primes with body $4,300. Oh and then you have extra batteries ($50), Filters for lenses (4 @ $40) and probably a shutter release ($15). $4,500. With the DF you can just buy the camera, and have a lot more money left in your pocket.

Why not a D610? I don't want a D610! Or a DX! DSLRs are ugly, bulky, scream paparazzi/reporter (cower away or hit him). But the real point, they do not add anything better than my D800. EVERYTHING IS LESS with those choices.
24mp is almost the 36, and is overkill 90% of the time.
The sensor doesn't add any more headroom for images.
Still looks like an bulky ugly DSLR.
Almost the same size and weight of a D800.
The AF is the same as the D610. Saying the AF is bad on the DF then saying you should get a D610 is nothing more than a Straw-man argument. It is more than good enough.

The DF offers the only thing that is better than a D800 - the 16mp sensor that can shoot in any situation. Nothing else on the market can offer that - nothing. And yes it comes at a premium, but is cheaper than the pro body options by $2,500. Add a design that doesn't cause fear in others that their picture will be in the news makes it even better. There is a reason street photographers don't use DSLRs - they are eyesores and most people have an inherent reaction to them as a threatening object. The DF is not as threatening as it does not look like a pro DSLR - people know what a pro DSLR looks like.

All of you price basher's have added nothing to the conversation about the system at all. You have relentlessly tried to curtail any positive discussion of others and have continued to attack, insult, diminished, and belittled anyone who likes or has any positive reaction to the system. After 1 post we got it, you don't like it. No one needs 27 more pages of your pocketbook logic. If you don't like it, why in the hell are you still post on the thread? It is juvenile and absurd.

Photobug

But I think we need to step back and think about the people that are into photography to have fun, and frankly, provide Nikon with the revenue to provide us "high end amateurs" and professionals the toys and tools that we want. We should be glad that this is not "PentaxRumours" or even worse, "KonicaRumours".

Very good point WestEndBoy.

Also agree with TTJ when he said and I quote:
All of you price basher's have added nothing to the conversation about the system at all. You have relentlessly tried to curtail any positive discussion of others and have continued to attack, insult, diminished, and belittled anyone who likes or has any positive reaction to the system. After 1 post we got it, you don't like it. No one needs 27 more pages of your pocketbook logic. If you don't like it, why in the hell are you still post on the thread? It is juvenile and absurd.

The point was made a long time ago about price, so lets move on and talk about the functional use of the Df...both positive and negative. It's really getting old all the comments about cost. Don't think the majority of readers of NRF need to hear it 3 or more times. Lets move on...please.

Fritz

One last comment before I depart the forum for the 610 forum. Amateur or professional it is all about the images we create and a frank discussion of the camera system can only further that process. It would be refreshing to see this forum made up of DF owners and other photographers interested in the system with due consideration to both the positives and the negatives with an eye towards the optimal employment of the camera. And a cordial tone might help. And lastly, let me (gently) remind everyone that neither the D8oo, nor the D4, nor I am sure the D4s are perfect cameras nor due they appeal to everyone.