Good travel tripod

MIkeAMIkeA Posts: 20Member
edited December 2013 in Gear Reviews
I'm looking for a good travel tripod and am leaning towards the Manfrotto Befree. Anyone have a recommendation? Thanks for the help.
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Comments

  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    I just bought an RRS (delivered yesterday) with a BH-55 head. This head is too heavy for travel, but they make a really light head - a BH-25.

    But RRS is the best of the best, so only buy if money is no object. I have the best tripod that I have ever seen sitting in my living room waiting until the rain stops for my first trial run. You would not be disappointed.
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    edited December 2013
    Really depends what you mean by "Travel" and what you are going to use on it. What are you looking to hold on one? Also you need to be realistic on how high you need it to reach. The Manfrotto Befree has a rated 8.8 pound load which I wouldn't put much more than a D3200 and a kit lens on or a compact camera. Quite expensive for what it is.

    As a rule of thumb, I take the weight of my camera + largest lens and multiply that by 2.5, and that is what will be a steady platform and multiplying it by 2 would be the bare minimum.

    http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/1678/-bora-bora-hold-the-horses-british-virgin-islands-seeking-advice-#Item_50
    Check that thread -

    I have tried a couple and settled on a Sirui T-1005x ($86) with an Arcatech Ultimate Ballhead (used for $150). 22lb load rating, 3lbs total (with head) and only 4" wide and 15" tall collapsed. I have been using it and I really like it and is surprisingly really good for next to nothing. (Stacking a D800 w/grip and 70-200vr on it.) The other Sirui I tried was really good as well, but at a rating of only 17lbs, it just didn't cut it for the "pro" set-up I need it to support. (Their ball heads are not good so plan on buying a good one or a set of legs without it.) The Sirui stuff is really good quality.

    Ok now that I got my 2-cents worth in (and I would say for a quite reasonable price) - Let's see how expensive of tripods people suggest. Maybe someone will suggest a set-up that breaks the $1,500 mark ;)

    Hold your hat MikeA - people around here like to suggest tripods that are 3x the cost of your camera. :P :P :P
    Post edited by TaoTeJared on
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    The setup I suggested above will break that mark. Just buy what is in my signature, (RRS TVC-24, RRS TA-2-QC, RRS TA-2-LC, RRS BH-55-LR) and replace the BH-55 with a B-25 lever release. Maybe get rid of the quick column and leveling base to keep it light. My tripod is a good one for travel, but the TQC-14 is even lighter. Should be less than $2,000. No point in spending more as RRS is already the best.

    TaoTejared comments are very good for a lower price point.
  • proudgeekproudgeek Posts: 1,422Member
    A lot depends on what lenses you're bringing with you. I've traveled with a 300mm f/2.8 so the term "travel" tripod is not really applicable. Assuming you're not carrying anything super heavy, one option I've looked at is the MePhoto (you can see banner ads on NRF from time to time). I'm a little wary of tripod that have five leg sections, in that I worry about their stability when the legs are fully extended.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,370Moderator
    If the budget of about $200 is firm, here is one which is about the same size folded and has twice the carrying capacity. Also, it has an ARCA Swiss connection and not the Manfrotto plate (which IMO is absolutely horrid.)

    Benro A1692TB0 Travel Angel II Triple Transfunctional Aluminum Tripod Kit $230 from B & H.

    Load Capacity 17.6 lb (8 kg)
    Maximum Height 61.6" (156.5 cm)
    Folded Length 15.7" (40 cm)

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/936921-REG/benro_a1692tb0_travel_angel_ii_tripod.html
    Msmoto, mod
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 4,421Member
    edited December 2013
    After toting a heavy duty aluminum tripod for years I bought a Gitzo carbon fiber five years ago. Oh boy, should have done that a long time ago. My Gitzo GT3541 is terrific. I have stuffed it into my luggage since lots of airport security don't like tripods, especially if you have points on the legs instead of rubber feet. It goes over the shoulder easy and I have hiked up hills and two mile hikes and not had any issues carrying it.

    After a lot of research I got the Markins M20L and it does a good job. It's been updated to a newer model. If I were to do it over, I would buy a RRS ball head. That is my nickel.

    Finally, be sure you under stand the difference between the 1500, 2500, and 3500 series Gitzo tripods. Really suggest you get a 2500 or 3500 tripod. it's going to cost you a bunch but it's an investment and its going to last forever.
    Post edited by Photobug on
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • sidewayssideways Posts: 54Member
    This year I bought what I consider to be one of the best travel tripods - Gitzo GT1581t traveller.. Carbon fibre, useful height, great quality and impressively light. I've paired it with an acratech head - again excellent. That combo is way above your target but if you saw it, you would be tempted :-)
    The lower cost CF tripods that tempted me are the Korean Photoclam PT124 or 224. Very similar to TTJ's Sirui but better made and a little more expensive.
    If you are in the USA look for a used Acratech head, you can make a good saving that way but they are v rare in Europe.
    If you buy aluminium for a travel tripod I would bet that you'll eventually end up selling it to upgrade to CF.
    Also consider if a monopod like the Gitzo would be a viable alternative. It won't do the same things but it might do enough and they are VERY portable so you may be more likely to carry it.
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited December 2013
    @TaoTeJared: LMFAO bro...love your perspective. But you are right, we do need more info on the gear MIkeA is going to use, and his budget...etc..etc. So till then, I will hold off on my recommendations.

    MIkeA: you may want to look at this topic as well. Even though the topic is about RRS, one of our members, ChasCS, brought to our attention beside RRS & Gitzo; namely: Vanguard.

    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • scoobysmakscoobysmak Posts: 214Member
    edited December 2013
    I guess I will add my input on this since all I have with me is a "travel" tripod

    I use a Sirui T-2005X, specs:

    Maximum Height of 56.9"
    Load Capacity of 26.5 lb
    Forged Aluminum Chassis
    Rapid/Reversible Center Column
    Retractable Spiked Feet
    Short Center Column for Low-Angle Shots
    Folds Down to Just 14.6"
    Weighs Just 3.1 lb

    Overall I like it, I have a RRS BH-30 ball head so I can use my L-plates. I need to test more travel setups and all I can compare this to now is the RRS TVC-34L which is not fair to even mention much less compare (there is a $900 dollar difference and unless photography is what your traveling for the Sirui actually fits in my luggage). Overall it looks pretty much the same as the one TTJ suggested but its a few inches taller and can support a few more pounds and of course is around $40-50 more.

    Since I have been forced to use this tripod my only true complaint is if I grab the center section and twist my wrist I can see the legs flex about 1/4 inch but they come right back. I admit this is not a fair test because the legs are not supposed to be moved like that. I had to grab my tripod with camera on it so I did not get run over by some idiot driving on the sidewalk (literally). When I grabbed it with some force is when I noticed it, the RRS tripod doesn't budge with the same force, but again not fair. The only other thing is the tripod is light and picks up vibrations/wind a little more than I like. I would have to chalk this up to a ...duh you wanted something light to travel with...well weight can have some advantages but for travel I will stick with my Sirui. Overall it seems designed fairly well and has held up to my abuse so far.
    Post edited by scoobysmak on
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 4,421Member
    Don't forget you can always pack a bag and load it down with rocks to hep reduce wind noise. Or go buy one of those tripods cloths that ties to the three legs and load it up with stones. I have used the first option and hung by camera bag on the hook between the legs. That is the best way I know to help minimize vibrations and wind.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    I looked at a Sirui that Scoobysmak is talking about and I thought that it was good value for the money (tripod, not head). It is a Chinese made tripod.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 5,982Moderator
    Don't forget you can always pack a bag and load it down with rocks to hep reduce wind noise. Or go buy one of those tripods cloths that ties to the three legs and load it up with stones. I have used the first option and hung by camera bag on the hook between the legs. That is the best way I know to help minimize vibrations and wind.
    I have used my camera bag too in the past because there aren't enough rocks laying around in most locations, but my bag has too much windage and causes another problem in severe conditions when it bangs against the legs. But then, if you are going to carry sandbags, you may as well have a cast iron tripod. :))

    My method is to use my left hand around the neck of the tripod as the whole lot can go over if it is really windy.
    Always learning.
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    I have a Vanguard Auctus Plus 283CT Tripod for my studio/car stuff and I love it - very well built. I would put it up to almost any other tripod brand out there - but that is not a travel tripod, at least not small travel. The other Vanguard's tripods I have played with seem to be just as well built as well. Vanguard has really reinvented itself with it's many different product offerings with really good build quality and for a bit less on cost than the overpriced (IMO) RSS, Gitzo, Davis & Sanford, and Slik (high end) set-ups.

    I do have a Manfrotto 190CF that I did use for a long time. It's a good medium sized travel tripod and is really good if you want a really sturdy in-between tripod for travel and home/studio use. With the right ball head you can easily load it with a pro body and a 300mm 2.8 lens.
    ...I use a Sirui T-2005X, specs:...
    I came really close to getting that one - it was just an inch taller (folded with head) than my bag would fit. I almost got the carbon fiber one (
    If the budget of about $200 is firm, here is one which is about the same size folded and has twice the carrying capacity. Also, it has an ARCA Swiss connection and not the Manfrotto plate (which IMO is absolutely horrid.)

    Benro A1692TB0 Travel Angel II Triple Transfunctional Aluminum Tripod Kit $230 from B & H.
    I just played with that one at the store - not bad, almost looked like the Sirui I returned (much better ball head on the Benro) and almost looked like they were a "general" build and just re-branded. It did feel like to me, 10-15lbs would be a pushing it a bit on it. Pretty good tripod though if you are not putting weight on it.

    I have 2 different Manfrotto mounts and the arca-swis, Luckly I found the Custom SLR M-Plate Pro which can be used with the arca swiss mount as well as the Manfrotto RC2 mount. Really nice since my "travel mount" uses an old ball head I have.
    cslrmpp

    My "travel ball head" (Manfrotto 484RC2 with a Manfrotto Super Clamp)
    Easily holds my D800 with almost any lens.
    IMG_2368

    I have came to believe the tripod head is more important than the legs when it comes down to it.
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    TTJ said: I have came to believe the tripod head is more important than the legs when it comes down to it.

    Agreed. I think so too. I often see nice tripods and crappy heads.
  • ChasCSChasCS Posts: 309Member
    Yes, the Vanguard lineup, seems pretty price conscious, of their fine product line.
    The awesome Fall Promo they have been running, ends tomorrow...
    http://www.vanguardworld.com

    Even thei mid range tripods, such as the one I'm using now, are really quite nicely designed, built and have awesome fit and finish.
    Their ball heads are not only great looking but seem to work very well, to my experience so far.

    I wouldn't hesitate to purchase other products from their extensive and varied catalog of tripods, ball head grips and camera bags.

    Thee hook at the bottom of the central column is a very useful bit of the whole kit.
    It is a great place to hang your camera bag for that extra bit of tripod stability.
    And bag security too, having if hanging in sight.
    D800, AF-S NIKKOR 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR, B+W Clear MRC 77mm, AF-S NIKKOR 24-120mm f/4G ED VR, Sigma DG UV 77mm,
    SB-910~WG-AS3, SB-50, ME-1, Lexar Professional 600x 64GB SDXC UHS-I 90MB/s* x2, 400x 32GB SDHC UHS-I 60MB/s* x1
    Vanguard ALTA PRO 263AT, GH-300T, SBH-250, SBH-100, PH-22 Panhead
    Lowepro S&F Deluxe Technical Belt and Harness ~ Pouch 60 AW 50 AW & 10, S&F Toploader 70 AW, Lens Case 11 x 26cm
    FE, NIKKOR 2-20mm f/1.8, OPTEX UV 52mm, Vivitar Zoom 285, Kodacolor VR 1000 CF 135-24 EXP DX 35mm, rePlay XD1080

  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,055Member
    Travel tripod? For what use? If you need it to get yourself into the photo or for macro that is one thing. But if you need it to just steady your camera that is a whole different thing.

    For many years I carried a tripod on travel. In recent years I hardly every used it. Instead, my travel tripod was flash freezing motion in doors, VR, high ISO, lean my body up against a building or tree, cradle camera in my hands and rest my hands on a solid object such as a rock or fence post or table or chair, ask someone (you can trust to not run off with your camera) to take a photo of me with the lens set wider than I would use myself and then crop that photo to a composition I like. I have even hung my camera strap from a tree branch and used the timer to take a photo of myself on the side of a mountain. For me, the best travel tripod is the one that weighs zero and uses the ingenuity in my head plus the controls already existing in the camera.
  • ChasCSChasCS Posts: 309Member
    Those flexible legs can wrap around anything, that they will fit around, including your own leg. Hahaha

    But talk about UGLY!! I couldn't use one, they'd give me Virtigo, man just looking at them in pics, gives me a mild headache.

    No, I'd much prefer the real deal! With sturdy legs that can be adjusted and bend for various angles of attack.
    Carbon Fibre where affordable.
    D800, AF-S NIKKOR 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR, B+W Clear MRC 77mm, AF-S NIKKOR 24-120mm f/4G ED VR, Sigma DG UV 77mm,
    SB-910~WG-AS3, SB-50, ME-1, Lexar Professional 600x 64GB SDXC UHS-I 90MB/s* x2, 400x 32GB SDHC UHS-I 60MB/s* x1
    Vanguard ALTA PRO 263AT, GH-300T, SBH-250, SBH-100, PH-22 Panhead
    Lowepro S&F Deluxe Technical Belt and Harness ~ Pouch 60 AW 50 AW & 10, S&F Toploader 70 AW, Lens Case 11 x 26cm
    FE, NIKKOR 2-20mm f/1.8, OPTEX UV 52mm, Vivitar Zoom 285, Kodacolor VR 1000 CF 135-24 EXP DX 35mm, rePlay XD1080

  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    @ChasCS: Yes not pleasing to look at, but they serve a purpose and the Joby does it very very well. Like, taking your flash and having it mounted on a tree branch to aid in much needed light for your subject.
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • mikepmikep Posts: 280Member
    that manfrotto one looks good, 1.4kg

    but like others pointed out, the joby can be good, i wish i hadnt sold mine sometimes ..... cant remember why i did now ! must have been drunk ... id recommend the large joby for any heavy lenses though, i think its called the "focus" - great product. i can see myself buying a joby again one day actually, i like those things. (as a side note - my joby snapped, joby sent out a replacement straight away, no questions no hassle, i got good customer service)

    i duno what kind of stuff you are gonna do, but me, i wouldnt take a tripod travelling. when i hear about some of the large bags full of lenses people take with them it amazes me! this lens, that lens, and so and so on. if you are gonna do a lot of walking for entire days, then pack as light as possible. if in doubt leave it at home imo. a 5kg bag might not sound a lot, but it can really get to you after a while. if im going for a day trek, i take my body and a 50mm, and thats about it!

    whatever tripod you go for, i recommend (as i always do in these tripod threads) that you, if at all possible, see the thing in person before you buy it, because they can be bigger and heavier in person than you might imagine.

    pay attention to the weight of the tripod and factor in the weight of the head too if you get one. for example, a large carbon tripod and an expensive head can actually weigh almost 3kg (carbon gitzo + arca swiss head + plate .... its actually pretty heavy) - which may not sound like much but will not be fun to carry around for a whole day.

    stick to under 2kg imo

    but yeah, unless you are planning to do long exposures somewhere, dont bother with one

  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 4,421Member
    edited December 2013

    I have used my camera bag too in the past because there aren't enough rocks laying around in most locations, but my bag has too much windage and causes another problem in severe conditions when it bangs against the legs. But then, if you are going to carry sandbags, you may as well have a cast iron tripod. :))

    My method is to use my left hand around the neck of the tripod as the whole lot can go over if it is really windy.
    Thanks for the laugh. In any wind I also grab the center/neck of the tripod to avoid a crash.

    I was at a photo workshop in April in the Smoky Mountains and the wind was high and it was a little after 6am. One of the Canon owners had his 60D with a 24-70 wide angle lens on a RSS tripod with a RSS head and walked away to help another photographer...when "CRASH". The wind blow it over. Damage: lens hoot split in to, filter ring cracked, lower right corner of camera smashed. The wind blow it over. The good news, the camera and lens continued to work.

    Needless to say the rest of the day everyone was holding on to their tripods.
    Post edited by Photobug on
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • TaoTeJaredTaoTeJared Posts: 1,306Member
    ...when "CRASH". The wind blow it over. Damage: lens hoot split in to, filter ring cracked, lower right corner of camera smashed. The wind blow it over. The good news, the camera and lens continued to work.
    And that is the reason why I'll take a camping stake with an adjustable bungee strap to anchor my tripod and lights down. Dead weight is good, until it starts swinging - and it is "dead weight."

    If you want to go super light the Manfrotto 143 Magic Arm Kit is interesting as well. You can use the tripod feet or clamp it. All depends where you are at and what it could be clamped to.

    image
    image
    image
    D800, D300, D50(ir converted), FujiX100, Canon G11, Olympus TG2. Nikon lenses - 24mm 2.8, 35mm 1.8, (5 in all)50mm, 60mm, 85mm 1.8, 105vr, 105 f2.5, 180mm 2.8, 70-200vr1, 24-120vr f4. Tokina 12-24mm, 16-28mm, 28-70mm (angenieux design), 300mm f2.8. Sigma 15mm fisheye. Voigtlander R2 (olive) & R2a, Voigt 35mm 2.5, Zeiss 50mm f/2, Leica 90mm f/4. I know I missed something...
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 4,421Member
    TTJ said:
    And that is the reason why I'll take a camping stake with an adjustable bungee strap to anchor my tripod and lights down. Dead weight is good, until it starts swinging - and it is "dead weight."

    Nice idea using a camping stake and bungee strap. Good idea.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited December 2013
    @Photobug: I have used my RRS tripod in some very wind conditions and I have never had it come close to falling over...regardless of the body or lens mounted on it. I have a feeling the shooter had made an error in setting up his gear...ie legs not fully extended. Moreover, the hook at the bottom of the apex or if one had the quick column ,is their for a reason.
    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • kyoshinikonkyoshinikon Posts: 410Member
    What happened to tripods with that hook accessory. Put a sandbag on it or If you pack light a bag you fill with with stones found by your setup or the camera bag itsself. If money wewe no issue... Gitzo GK1580TQR5
    “To photograph is to hold one’s breath, when all faculties converge to capture fleeting reality. It’s at that precise moment that mastering an image becomes a great physical and intellectual joy.” - Bresson
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