D300s Successor-D400, what and when

donaldejose

Squamishhoto: Yes, there is no reason to believe I am right. It is just an opinion I have: not something which can be proven in any way. It could be that Nikon uses the same (or similar) 24mp sensor in the D3200, D5200, D7200 and D400. Some people think it will. If so, at least I would expect the D400 software to be able to extract more performance out of that sensor because Nikon will want to show "better" IQ in some way as you move up from a D3200 to a D400 and they will want that difference to be obvious to independent tester. But I am hopeful Nikon will develop a new "benchmark" DX sensor and put that into the D400. In fact, I suspect developmental issues with such a new sensor is one of the reasons the D400 has been so delayed. Sure though, it could be Nikon is lazy, or the floods have disrupted product delivery, or Nikon will abandon the D400 and make people select between a D7200 or a D600 as its replacement, etc. Any of these are possible and at this time none of them can be shown to be "right." While it is all speculation at this stage, there is some reason and logic behind many of the opinions expressed here. You well know that my personal ultimate wishful thinking is for Nikon to design a DX D400 with near D4 level ISO and fps complete with built in battery grip and sell it for about $2,000. Impossible? Many think so, but then each revolution seems impossible before it occurs which is what makes it a revolution rather than an evolution. Most likely we will get an evolutionary D400 which is simply an improved D300s.

KnockKnock

Apologies in advance if this was mentioned 3-15 pages ago, but is it possible that Nikon thought that professional shooters wanting reach would be happy slapping a 70-200 or 100mm macro on the V2 with adapter? Yeah, lots of holes in that argument. Still, it's got FPS and reach.

TaoTeJared

Let's keep some perspective here -
•First and foremost, Nikon sticks to its schedules and order of releasing bodies. They always have, and they never seem to move off of it except for a real unforeseeable reason.
•It has been 5 years, 6 months since the D300 release. The Dx00 bodies have had an overhaul every 4 years. D300s was an unusual release but added the needed video to match Canon.
•I think it is obvious that Nikon skipped the "original" D400 as it's release was due 2-3 years ago which would have been just after the Thailand floods and Tsunami.
•Redesigning a new body generation for any camera seems to take Nikon 4 years. (We are mid cycle for the next "D500" release.
•Sensor upgrades (considering D300 to the D300s) seem to only take 2 years+/-. (We are at that point now.)
•The D400 (D300, D200, D100) line always kicked off the new sensor sizes. (The D5100 kicked it off this time.)
•The D7000 line (d90, D80, D70) was always the last to be released in the series of DX cameras. We are currently at the D7000 refresh time.
•When The D400 was skipped, the 24mp sensor was the rumors at the time. The D5100 got the 24mp sensor as expected.
•Remaining in the DX order of the Nikon "universe", D7000 refresh and ??half cycle D400??
•If Nikon has used a Sony sensor - they always have had it in one of their bodies first, usually 3-6 months prior to Nikon putting in one of their bodies. Usually Sony's is a lower model. The Sony announcement is interesting.
•Nikon DOES NOT CHANGE ON A DIME. They have their plans, and they have never moved on a whim.

We Now are at the D7000 schedule for an update which usually gets the best of the generation of DX sensors.
The unique sensor was the 16mp in the D7200 though - and it performed really well. We all assumed at the time it was fairly safe to assume the D5100's 24mp sensor WAS also going to be in the D400 BUT... Speculate that if the D400 was suppose to match the D4 as the D3/D300 did, that could mean a 16mp sensor was slotted for the D400?

My thoughts line up as such:

•Nikon's schedule is all messed up - flood, delays, tsunami, delays, more delays, and a new body (D600). From the releases as of late, it seems Nikon is still or permanently behind 6 months the "old" schedule.
•There seems to be leaks for a D7100 type of body and if we take history, it will probably be a 24mp sensor as the last in the DX refreshes.
•The 20mp sensor announcement from Sony (if Nikon uses it) would line up for a Nikon body in Aug/Sept or the usual D400 announcement time in the year - just in time for Christmas. A lower MP sensor is a much easier sell for Advanced users who know more about the systems than the general consumer that goes for the lower models.

Or we are another 2 years off for the D500 release.

ricochet

Well, there are 46 people who want one....wonder if that is enough.... )

Did you count everyone who's posted on this thread or did you subtract the two or three that only come here to be negative. I doubt they'll be buyers for a camera they don't want/need/ believe Nikon will build.

TTJ- You make a strong case. An Aug/Sept release for the D400 matches up well with the latest rumors concerning the appearance of the 7DMKII.

spraynpray

spraynpray: It is not the 20mp that make me think this sensor isn't good enough for the D400, it is the price of the camea Sony will put it into. The quality of the sensor cannot be the best which can be made in DX size because its price is too low. It is a lower price/lower performance model. Nikon wouldn't put the D3200 or D5200 sensor into the D400 either. They will produce something better for the D400.

They didn't for the D300 or D300s Donald.

Paperman

Nikon's schedule is all messed up - flood, delays, tsunami, delays, more delays, and a new body (D600)

Aren't these natural disasters more likely to effect production and not the design stage ? . When there is a tsunami/flood, all machinery/production capability and maybe months of stock are lost. So it is natural that there will be a hick up for a few months until machinery is replaced or operation is moved to another plant ( those delays actually did not happen )

But why should something on the drawing table/design stage ( that is where the the D400 would be at the time ) be effected ? A few months maybe, but we are talking about a 1 - 1.5 yrs delay now . And why didn't the tsunami/floods delay the other models at all - design or productions wise ?

And for all the DX crop advantages , sports shooters etc. ...Isn't it a bit exaggerated? What were they doing when there was film? And if anyone needs that extra magnification, there is always the 1.4x TC for a few hundred bucks . You lose a stop and maybe some quality but surely will get it back with the ISO capability and better IQ of an FF.

The demand for a high end DX is decreasing day by day. Nikon is surely aware of it . The more they wait, the more people will incline towards FF. I never considered FF until a couple of months ago ; now it is the only upgrade I am considering.

Kuv

From time to time I take a look at Canon Rumors, just to see what's happening on that side of the playing field. From what I read there, they don't seem to plan to merge the top two APS-C lines. The forum is full of discussion of both a 70D and a 7DMk2.

Since Canon and Nikon have almost always have competing camera bodies for every class, it is very plausible that if Canon issues two bodies, that Nikon would follow suit.

spraynpray

Kuv +1

We don't know how Nikon coped with the problems after the disasters - maybe they redeployed the less important design engineers to help the production engineers get production flowing again.

sevencrossing

First and foremost, Nikon sticks to its schedules and order of releasing bodies.

Adam predicts we will get the F7 in 2014

http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=1128





:-\"

TaoTeJared

anyone know how to recall a "draft saved"?

adamz

try to refresh the page and it should be right there in the comment box

Msmoto

Wow, that post popped up in front of my eyes...and I was thinking of Adam....

But, I was thinking of the F7, and could see no reason to use anything but my two "F" bodies if I want to shoot film. If Nikon does not bring us a D400, who knows...?

adamz

@Paperman - the demand for high end DX replacement is higher with every day. putting 1.4TC on FX glass and on FX camera is not the same as having based 1.5 crop factor. maybe for You it doesn't matter, but there are some ppl over here and there who needs a pro class DX camera. ask any serious birder, wildlifer or spotter if they are happy with their FX and I bet that most of ppl will tell You that they need pro DX. not a D7*** but a true D4*** or even pro D*.

@msmoto - F7 would be great with the patented digital back. I'm still looking on the 2nd market from time to time to get me F6 with a good price tag.

Andrewz

I'm just thinking about crop factor of an F7 compared to 2 1/4...... Oops off subject again. I was looking at a used D300 for $500, for the mean time but that would be $500 less to spend if a D400 comes out anytime soon...

Msmoto

@ Andrewz

We can always discuss film cameras here.....
http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/214/nikon-film-cameras-anyone#Item_44

I would love to hear what the latest versions do....

donaldejose

spraynpray: Yes, I think Nikon used the same 12.3 mp sensor in the D90 and the D300 and the D300s.

What does Nikon need for a D400? Basically three things, sensor, pro body/parts, and software. The pro body/parts have existed ever since the D800 (just need a different pentaprism top plate and different size mirror). The software is a matter of programmer's time. Possible sensors have existed for some time. Nikon could have used the 16mp sensor in the D7000 but they did not. Nikon could use the 24mp sensor in the D3200, D5200 or soon to be announced D7200 but so far they have not. This is what leads me to speculate that Nikon has been planning a new sensor for the D400 and they have had some developmental problems getting it to work as they want. What has been that problem? Likely not low ISO performance. More likely the issue has been to get high image quality and low noise at high ISO which is produced by a combination of sensor output and software programming. So what is that high ISO performance target they are shooting for? I speculate it is a native ISO of 12,800 with something like 8 fps. Of course, it is also possible Nikon will not produce any D400 and will force D300s upgraders to choose between a D7200, D600 and D800. Only time will tell.

PB_PM

I love how people are skipping the D7100, for no apparent reason.

donaldejose

Here is the reason I do it. We had (past tense) the D3100 and the D5100 but no D7100. Now we have the D3200 and the D5200 so I think Nikon will not go back to the old Dx1xx name and will just jump to the Dx2xx name. To use D7100 will make it look already outdated. But I could be wrong.

spraynpray

"Yes, I think Nikon used the same 12.3 mp sensor in the D90 and the D300 and the D300s. "

Don't forget the D5000 too - my first Nikon. Great little camera, I should have kept it for my wife but I had to liquidate it for the D90. No more one wheel bodies for me.

"To use D7100 will make it look already outdated. But I could be wrong."

That sounds sensible Donald.

donaldejose

I could be wrong about a lot of things! Maybe the same sensor we will see in the D7200 will also be used in the D400 and maybe it will not go to 12,800 native ISO. But then don't you think a lot of people will say: "What's the big deal, why did it take Nikon so long to produce a D400 when it has a 'nothing special' sensor, why did we have to wait so long for not much more than a more durable body?" That is my thinking. If Nikon wants to keep a "pro-DX" market, it should produce a D400 worthy of being called a pro-DX camera. We will see what happens.

TaoTeJared

refresh did nothing - where does it save it? I had a good researched write up... :-((

Msmoto

TTJ...I am trying to figure this out myself...where the drafts disappear to....I have not found them yet and ahve been looking everywhere.

OK, look on the main menu for all threads and if a draft is saved..you should see a button called "My Drafts" Try this....

TaoTeJared

Thanks for looking - grumble...

Andrewz

I just picked up a lightly used D300. I predict Nikon releases the new D400 tomorrow ;-)

ricochet

I just picked up a lightly used D300. I predict Nikon releases the new D400 tomorrow ;-)

Sorry Andrewz, I've already tried that (twice) and it didn't work.

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