D300s Successor-D400, what and when

Paperman

Give it up guys We will soon be discussing the D7xxx series turning FX !

People keep saying there is the demand for DX reach from birders ... Bad news ! Nikon is also aware of the need and figured out ( in conjunction with Canon ) they will make loads of more money by selling an an FX body + long reach tele lenses + TCs - like a few thousand bucks more per birder. The birder has nowhere to go competitionwise so why just sell him only a $2000 DX body where as an FX body opens all kinds of new doors ...

I say those birders go grab a D7200 while they can :-) Soon 7 series DX will be extinct ...

Sanook

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Msmoto

I think now that the D5300 with ISO 12,800 is here, the bar has definitely been raised for the D400. It may very we'll be the idea of better FX, shooting in crop mode, may be the direction Nikon is headed and the pro-sumer DX body is not going to happen. I still have hopes for a super DX like a D400, but what we may be left with is a D7xxx. If no D400 by the end of January, I cannot imagine one being produced.

And Sony has now pushed the edge with the new Alpha bodies, thus my guess is Nikon and Canon are watching closely.

donaldejose

For those who said a DX sensor would never have a native ISO range up to 12,800 we now see Nikon giving the ISO range of the D5300 as being from 100 to 12,800 and up to 25,600 by setting EC to +1. We will see how it performs at that high ISO. Perhaps this is a step up in DX sensor performance, perhaps not. We will see when production units are tested.

PB_PM

They haven't really raised the ISO, all they've done is declare it no longer a "high" setting. Most likely because the EXPEED4 can handle noise just a little bit better. I highly doubt it will be a usable setting.

sevencrossing

lets wait and see how it compares to a D4 at ISO 12,800

spraynpray

Comparing a consumer DX against the top pro FX? Yeah, that'll help...

sevencrossing

I think someone, is hoping the sensor in the D5200 might be used in the D400
the hope is, the IQ quality of the next generation of Dx sensors will be close to that of the current Fx sensors
Would a D400 be classed as consumer or pro? we will probably never know

Photobug

Msmoto said:
may be the direction Nikon is headed and the pro-sumer DX body is not going to happen. I still have hopes for a super DX like a D400, but what we may be left with is a D7xxx. If no D400 by the end of January, I cannot imagine one being produced.

Finally I see a crack in your position on the future of the D400. I totally agree with your statement above, especially that part about if no D400 by the end of January. Until now you always been so positive that a D400 would be forthcoming. I really believe you are spot on with this assessment.

I have started to think about a pro FX body that had really good specs and a high number of MPs in DX mode. I am open to buying a FX body if it had most of these features that Sanook identified:
"Now let's have a D800S, 36mp, 6fps in fx, full DX crop of 18mp & 9fps, kit will have less DX mp than the dx line but will eat them up with ISO brilliant at 12800, no less than 6400' built in GPS and WiFi and a USB 3.0 port, all for $2999 USD. " That would fit my wildlife requirements and other requirements.

donaldejose

I think the correct comparison will be the D7100 sensor and the D5300 sensor both at ISO 6,400 and at ISO 12,800. We will see if the new D5300 sensor is an improvement or not. Perhaps Nikon just labeled the settings differently but I think not. They must think the IQ at ISO 12,800 is now equal to what all prior DX Nikon sensors produced at ISO 6400 or they would not have listed the spec in their brochure as from 100 to 12,800. I am assuming Nikon has some metric for "acceptable" IQ at high ISO and the D5300 sensor (or Expeed 4 plus new software) has moved the needle up one step. Let's hope so.

Sanook

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tganiats

@blackfox
"the only limiting factor for me at the moment is lack of a raw convertor for apeture 3"

If you are referring to the D7100, look again. My wife has a D7100...Mac converter been available for a few months now.

kyoshinikon

Does anyone think that expeed 4 may be playing a vital role in the possibility of a D400. Nikon is probably looking to make a 7D killer if in fact they are going to update the D300s...

Sports

Expeed 4 is definitely needed for D400 because they have to use a "plain" chip with a price tag of a few bucks..
The much lower price at the D400 segment leaves no room for a specially tailored solution - as opposed to the D4 segment.
Another "solution" would have been to use a completely different processor, but that would probably have taken years for Nikon to re-write and optimize their firmware for a different architecture. And they would end up with two branches of basically the same thing, doubling the maintenance cost.
I believe it's been a wise decision to wait for the Expeed 4 generation, even if some cameras ended up slow-ish (D800) or delayed (D400).
I'm saying "delayed" - that's right, still hoping.
All that being said, I think it's been unwise to let Expeed 4 take so long. And rather arrogant to just leave customers in the dark for so long.

sevencrossing

I seems the new Nikon retro might tick a few boxes

High ISO
not too many mp
Professional build
Professional controls
It looks like it will work with the older A1 lenses, so this could mitigate the cost of new glass
what about "reach"- buy one of the classic 400 manual focus lenses
sorry only 5.5 fps
far from perfect, but no camera ever is

snakebunk

@sevencrossing: Do you know if there will be wheels for the shutter and aperture like on the current DSLRs? Will it be easy to change the exposure without moving the eye from the view fiender?

donaldejose

If the new retro FM2 or FE2 or F (whatever it will look like) is going to use Nikon's latest G series lenses (which is certainly will) then it must have a mechanism to adjust the aperture since the newest lenses rely upon the camera's command dial to so so. Ever notice how the old aperture markings have disappeared on new G series lenses?

Photobug

The rumor changed, instead of FM2 it's now the F3 or F3HP body. I love that much more than the FM2 body.

spraynpray

My Olympus OM series film SLR's had the shutter ring on the body around the lens mount - Nikon ought to copy that for the shutter AND aperture as it was a master stroke of ergonomic design.

DaveyJ

The release of Nikon Germany "concentrating on Full Frame DSLR" is a severe warning sign. Nikon D600 and D610 shortfalls beg the question that short of a D800 what the hell has Nikon done in FX that it hasn't done better in DX. What that release and focus says to me is that Nikon Germany is choosing to IGNORE The D3200 and D7100 and D300 and D300s crowd. I'd sure like to look at their total Nikon sales and see what component is DX versus FX. Does anybody out there have an informed estimate? Nikon's Chief executive released a statement a few months ago that seemed FAR more reasonable. I do much admire the D800E and have strongly considered buying one as I have quite a few FX lens. HOWEVER my long term path for purchases was far more critical in the D7100 and D7200 and hopefully D400 arena. I am currently using the D3200 for dangerous area work. We also use the D200 and D300 that way too. But I safeguard the D7100 for safer work.

Was not the D7100 picked as the European Camera of the year in one of the most important areas that equates to sakes and Quality for the money? What is the WORLD is Nikon Germany thinking about???

PB_PM

It's called marketing hype, don't get your shorts in a knot.

When the D7100 came out, Nikon said it was the best thing since sliced bread as well.

sevencrossing

DaveyJ .......................What is the WORLD is Nikon Germany thinking about???

Nikon Germany is correct

FX full-frame image sensors are superior to the smaller image sensors in two essential points: the dynamic range and image design. More dynamic range means finest image detail drawing with high brilliance and clarity even in high contrast pictures with lots of light and shadow as well as extremely low noise even when using high ISO sensitivities

(Probably makes a bit more sense in the original German)

DaveyJ

When the European Camera of the Year Award went in one category to the Nikon D7100 and ignored ALL the rest of the cameras Nikon currently offers I'd say that is questionable. Despite the fact that I love photography and have owned way more in cameras than I care to think about.....I realize that MOST of the time I prefer more of a point and shoot. My definition of point and shoot for ME is a D3200 or a D7100 or a D300. Problem is I use these cameras at work. Today it has snowed all day long. Between sawdust and metal shavings sometimes in the air and the chance of dropping a camera in the water I HAVE to have a camera that is smaller and manageable. I do NOT delude myself that I am doing fine art photography today. I WOULD SELECT A D800E for shooting a lot if I wasn't strapped into a tough spot. I also would NOT recommend FX to most beginning photographers.

But there are other factors at work? Today we have work to do. Should I just ignore all the other smaller. lighter cameras Nikon makes and just go for the one that does the best detail. I owned 3 8x10 cameras. More medium formats than that by far. Four 4x5s. Thank God I metered with 35mm cameras because the results with the smaller (lesser) format some days saved the day. It is fine for YOU to concentrate on FX and I have suggested that to some of my best friends for what they are shooting for usually by the way on DX and only renting FX when they know they need them. Since I DID NOT read the original German version I should NOT perhaps take to much offense to their position. But to ABANDON DX and other smaller formats i think would be suicidal for Nikon.

sevencrossing

DaveyJ

The current DX range of Nikon's have a very big advantage over the current Fx range; they are cheaper, lighter, and smaller. but apart from that, I cannot find any advantage ( I just do not get the "reach" argument )
I guess European Camera of the Year Award went in one category to the Nikon D7100, because when it comes to bangs for your bucks, its very hard to beat

DaveyJ ....only renting FX when they know they need them....

in the uk renting cameras is an expensive option and how do know, in advance, you need FX
I sometime wait days, even years for the right weather, for a landscape and will only know conditions MIGHT be right a few hours in advance

snakebunk

The reach argument is simple; if you have a higher pixel density you can crop harder (given that the image is sharp enough).

DX cameras often have higher pixel density than FX cameras, and the reach is one of the advantages of smaller sensors.

This is relevant to some and not relevant to others. If you have not experienced this already I would guess it's not relevant to the photography you are doing.