Will there Be a Professional DX Body From Nikon?

sevencrossing

I know this is about a Pro Dx camera

But what if the D400 is full frame
The D2 was dx but its successor was full frame

It might be mirrorless

Being mirrorless it might give the fps some people want

put a 50mp sensor in it and it has the reach others seem to think they need

O dear It won't have "pro" controls

haroldp

@sevencrossing

Why should it not have 'pro' controls. The fuji x-t1 certainly has them and is much smaller than a D300.
Nikon is capable of this design.

... H

Jonhob

I haven't read all the replies yet but I would be very surprised if Nikon dont release a modern D2x with a 24mp sensor. Low light performance eis so good now that it would be great for pro sports photographers. I would love on to go with my D4s and D3s.

The D7xx are no way good enough for pro useage yet ie poor buffers and build quality. That's not knocking the cameras for other use, they just wouldn't last 5 minutes being bashed around.

heartyfisher

I have been looking at some of the reviews of the Samsung NX1, pretty awesome sensor! It does look like their DX BSI sensor will help bring the performance of DX sensors in general even closer to FX sensors! I wonder when Nikon will bring out a BSI sensor. Nikon is usually slow with these things ... :-( 2-3 years time probably, but I hope maybe earlier?

PB_PM

Nikon has been using Sony's BSI sensor technology for some time now, as far as i know. Not sure if the Toshiba sensors have BSI tech though.

One_Oh_Four

I have been thinking about the Pro DX camera.. from Nikon .. we know that the D7200 is the Nikon DX with the highest spec. and the hoped for Pro DX would be higher. Which other DX sensor cameras would be considered a Pro DX, and thus better than the D7200 in some way. Of course we have the Canon 7dm2 .. any others? why do you consider it to be better than the D7200?

lets start with the obvious one
1) Canon 7dM2 : Better build. faster FPS (10 vs 6) .. anything else ? heavier? :-)

This is a discussion I am keen to talk about but it was totally over run a dozen or so of off topic rants

I disagree with the last few dozen post of anti ProDx Discussion comments..

There is no doubt that there is a market for a ProDX camera, as shown by the presence of the Canon 7Dm2.
What I was trying to gauge before all this anti ProDx rants that has hijacked this thread,
was what other manufacturers have put in their products that you would consider a ProDX and with that we can gauge if the D7200 is actually within this class of products.

Now if you anti ProDx Discussion commenters want to ridicule that then that's up to you .. I am keen to continue this thread as stated in the title.. if the Mods think the hijacking of this thread is valid then its up to them. I would say we need another tread to discuss how tolerant we are of thread hijackers.

There are a couple of feautures that the D7200 doesn't sport but -for example- the D750 does, like Group AF. There's no reason why that wouldn't be included in the top-of-the-line DX camera from Nikon. It makes me think that some features were left out for marketing reasons because another DX camera is in development.

What I would also hugely like on a semi-pro DX is a type of body with the same button lay-out as on my D800. My second body is a D7000 and although I'm no retard I keep looking at it's buttons and menu trying to remember how to set it up again as it clearly makes less flight hours as my D800.

It is amazing how folks can argue about how to run a forum, yet offer no content in relationship to the subject of the thread. And, that is

Will there Be a Professional DX Body From Nikon?

Maybe we should just try to keep our comments on topic, not get into a contest to see who has the loudest voice or biggest ego.

A simple question that has been answered a 100 times

At the risk of repeating myself

very very unlikely

Quite simply a Pro Dx is an oxymoron

Canon don't make one and nether will Nikon

Ah well, let's call it a semi-pro DX, then! The Canon 7D Mk.II is indeed no 1Dx, but neither is it a consumer camera.

I see that the mods will allow this thread to continue its march into stupidity. I, however, resign and will take up residence on another forum that discusses actual photography. Bye.

Bye! For you the wish for a successor to the D300(s) might be stupid, for me the pros and cons of a D8XX against a D7XXXX against the mythical direct competitor of the 7D Mk.II is quite important for my aviation photography. Entertaining at least... Maybe Nikon will never produce such a camera but maybe they will... History shows that Nikon and Canon do follow each other's lead... And let's face it, even if this one thread should prove completely out of touch with reality, it's only ONE thread against quite a few others that DO discuss your spectrum of photography. I remember your post where you complained that this thread goes on and on and your posting about some f/1.4 art lens was almost ignored. Well, at this stage in my photography life I have no use for such a lens, so no desire to discuss it, while I DO like to discuss the Unicorn.....

Just put an order in for a pro-style DX. Shoots about 7 frames a second (which isn't bad); has group AF, native ISO up to 12,800, accommodates both an SD and CF card, Expeed 4 processor. The only drawback is that it only shoots 16mb images. If I can remove that D810 emblem off and write D400 in its place in crayon I should be all set.

Only to some degree, proudgeek! I bought my D800 with that in mind, but only because it was discounted by an amount of about 600 Euro! The D810 is better in ISO, fps etc. but will be about 1600 Euro more expensive if I compare 7D Mk.II - D810 prices...

One_Oh_Four

Thom's latest post has some cryptic language:

The irony is that Nikon is going to end 2015 with the strongest DSLR lineup they’ve ever had. Totally solid from bottom to top, with at least one missing model showing up, too (hint, hint).

Is the D400 on NDA out in the wild?
If yes, can someone reply that they can neither confirm nor deny

I think he is referring to the D1300 or D1500, the entry-entry-level DSLR with a smartphone built in so we can all upload directly to Facebook! Then the line-up is complete; D1XXX, D3XXX, D5XXX and D7XXX. That leaves the D6/7/8XX for the FX-nichists!

heartyfisher

Nikon has been using Sony's BSI sensor technology for some time now, as far as i know. Not sure if the Toshiba sensors have BSI tech though.

Sorry, I meant for the DX sensors.. the NX1 sensor is the first APSC sized sensor with BSI.

Sports

What I was trying to gauge was what other manufacturers have put in their products that you would consider a ProDX.

Canon has a new system for indoor photography. Modern indoor light flickers, and the system tries to do metering and take the actual shot at the best light ... as I understand it. It's only in the new 7Dmk2, but I'm sure it'll spread to others. Would be nice to see something similar at Nikon.
It's been hinted that the D5 will have some new AF technology. If it's ready, it'll be pretty damn sad to only sell 40,000 instances a year (in the D5). Let the new system cover its R&D expenses by using it in a pro-DX ... and in the other bodies when they are replaced.

heartyfisher

@Heartyfisher said
"What I was trying to gauge .. was what other manufacturers have put in their products that you would consider a ProDX and with that we can gauge if the D7200 is actually within this class of products. "

.. There are a couple of feautures that the D7200 doesn't sport but -for example- the D750 does, like Group AF.

.. What I would also hugely like on a semi-pro DX is a type of body with the same button lay-out as on my D800. My second body is a D7000 and although I'm no retard I keep looking at it's buttons and menu trying to remember how to set it up again as it clearly makes less flight hours as my D800.

in reply to your 2 points above
1) I dont think not having Group AF makes it a non pro DX in comparison to other Pro DX cameras out there since none of the ProDX cameras have it either!

2) You are right the Button Layout of the D300 and D800 series bodies are great! and would be very welcome in the Nikon ProDX body. when I switched from the D200 clone to the D7000 I had a similiar issue. The usability downgrade was painful and using both together was annoying. Like you I had to keep "remembering" what did what and how to get there. BUT the D7200 and D750 have the same layout now. Is the D750 in a non Pro body? or is it a Pro camera? if it is doesnt that make the D7200 just as "Pro" ?

sevencrossing

Ah well, let's call it a semi-pro DX, then!

No problem

Nikon have made some excellent semi-pro DX cameras

The current model called the D7200

It is used by many semi professional photographers

spraynpray

@One_Oh_Four: Good posts.

Nikon UK judge the D750 to be 'pro' enough to put it on the Nikon Professional Users list, so if the D400 had the same body format, it seems reasonable to assume it would be on it too (note the D7200 isn't on there). It would be better if it has the D300s layout though IMHO.

PB_PM

Nikon has been using Sony's BSI sensor technology for some time now, as far as i know. Not sure if the Toshiba sensors have BSI tech though.

Sorry, I meant for the DX sensors.

So did I. As far as I know all of Sony's modern sensors use BSI technology.

heartyfisher

Nikon has been using Sony's BSI sensor technology for some time now, as far as i know. Not sure if the Toshiba sensors have BSI tech though.

Sorry, I meant for the DX sensors.

So did I. As far as I know all of Sony's modern sensors use BSI technology.

"Now Samsung has launched the flagship NX1 model, which certainly does have a standout feature – the 28.2-million-pixel, APS-C-sized sensor utilising backside illumination (BSI) technology. This is the first consumer BSI sensor of this size, the previous biggest being the 1in-sized Sony Exmor-R sensor."
Read more at http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/buying-advice/technology_guides/bsi-sensor-backside-illumination-advanced-technology-guide-60726

http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/feature/samsung-nx1-hands-on-preview/

One_Oh_Four

@Heartyfisher said
"What I was trying to gauge .. was what other manufacturers have put in their products that you would consider a ProDX and with that we can gauge if the D7200 is actually within this class of products. "

.. There are a couple of feautures that the D7200 doesn't sport but -for example- the D750 does, like Group AF.

.. What I would also hugely like on a semi-pro DX is a type of body with the same button lay-out as on my D800. My second body is a D7000 and although I'm no retard I keep looking at it's buttons and menu trying to remember how to set it up again as it clearly makes less flight hours as my D800.

in reply to your 2 points above
1) I dont think not having Group AF makes it a non pro DX in comparison to other Pro DX cameras out there since none of the ProDX cameras have it either!

2) You are right the Button Layout of the D300 and D800 series bodies are great! and would be very welcome in the Nikon ProDX body. when I switched from the D200 clone to the D7000 I had a similiar issue. The usability downgrade was painful and using both together was annoying. Like you I had to keep "remembering" what did what and how to get there. BUT the D7200 and D750 have the same layout now. Is the D750 in a non Pro body? or is it a Pro camera? if it is doesnt that make the D7200 just as "Pro" ?

1) No, I just mean that may be to differentiate on a features-level for the marketeers between a D7200 and the D Unicorn. The price differentiation will need more than D8XX buttonry to get the gear heads across the line!

2) The D750 & D7200 make an awesome FF & DX team! If I didn't have the D800 (and enough cash to wad out in a single purchase), I think I would be very, very happy with those 2! In my personal opinion a "pro" body is made up by 2 things; durability and having to delve in as little menus as possible while shooting. It's obvious the D8XX and D300(s) aren't in the same league as the D4(s) durability-wise. They also don't have the built-in vertical grip. For the price-difference there needs to be some difference in capabilities/durability but I think I'll be friends sooner with a D4 than a D7200 in terms of finding my way blindly around the camera! So I would rate the D750 and D7200 enthousiast/higher middle class and not pro. Just my opinion, and you know what they're like!

Pro is maybe really a misnomer in general, I'd think. Earlier in this (or the D7200 thread) it was said that every camera used by a photographer to make is his/her living is a "pro" camera of sorts... Only they aren't supported by NPS as "pro"-camera's

@sevencrossing: Hahaha, good one! For the reasons mentioned above I differ of opinion! BTW, there are lots of "Pro-FF" cameras used by good willing but very amateur enthusiasts too, like me!!!

@spraynpray: Here in the Netherlands (Nikon Europe surely), the D7100 also qualifies for NPS (although maybe only as a 2nd body? Have to look into that...), I'd think it'll be a matter of time before the D7200 is listed too.

Cheers,
Erik.

heartyfisher

@One_Oh_Four Sorry .. but i am trying to discuss this ..

"What I was trying to gauge .. was what other manufacturers have put in their products that you would consider a ProDX and with that we can gauge if the D7200 is actually within this class of products. "

Your points don't seem to address it in anyway :-) I know we meander a lot but ...

Ironheart

This little tidbit from today's blog:

"Sony has a new IMX271 24MP APS-C sensor with a maximum rate of 19 fps. Sounds like a good candidate for a pro Nikon DX DSLR camera."

Read more on NikonRumors.com: http://nikonrumors.com/2015/04/26/weekly-nikon-news-flash-312.aspx/

This is good news!

One_Oh_Four

@One_Oh_Four Sorry .. but i am trying to discuss this ..

"What I was trying to gauge .. was what other manufacturers have put in their products that you would consider a ProDX and with that we can gauge if the D7200 is actually within this class of products. "

Your points don't seem to address it in anyway :-) I know we meander a lot but ...

Probably not from the angle you are looking at it which is indeed different than my look at it. But that only enrichens the discussion! I'm looking forward to what views others have to offer concerning your question.

sevencrossing

I disagree with the last few dozen post of anti ProDx Discussion comments..

If, by any chance, you are referring to me
Let me it clear
I am not anti ProDX
In its time, the D2 was a groundbreaking camera
I just don't think, Nikon will make another Pro dx in the foreseeable future
The latest rumor for a Nikon Mirrorless suggests, it will be full frame, seems to support this

heartyfisher

I disagree with the last few dozen post of anti ProDx Discussion comments..



If, by any chance, you are referring to me
Let me it clear
I am not anti ProDX
In its time, the D2 was a groundbreaking camera
I just don't think, Nikon will make another Pro dx in the foreseeable future
The latest rumor for a Nikon Mirrorless suggests, it will be full frame, seems to support this


The key word was "Anti .. Discussion" comments. but we are back on track.
I was waiting for a D300S successor.. now I dont mind if it comes or not. I think Nikon should make one. I am happy with my D7000 which I will probably upgrade to a D7200.. just waiting for a good deal ;-) and if the D300S successor should arrive then I will probably be reordering it..

Re FX Mirror-less.. I cant see how that precludes the D300S successor ? Seems to be totally tangential. if mirror-less comes for FX then It should also arrive for DX ..

sevencrossing

lets look at the hoped for advantages and features of a Nikon Pro Dx
more fps
more reach
lower price
lower weight
smaller size
A 50mp mirrorless could have all of these
I am trying to see any advantage in making it Dx

heartyfisher

lets look at the hoped for advantages and features of a Nikon Pro Dx
more fps
more reach
lower price
lower weight
smaller size
A 50mp mirrorless could have all of these
I am trying to see any advantage in making it Dx

Compared to ?? D810 ? D7200 ?

Note : A DX sensor is generally 10% the price of a FX sensor.

sevencrossing

Compared to ?? D810 ? D7200 ?

a Pro FX camera

Note : A DX sensor is generally 10% the price of a FX sensor

but we have absolutely no idea, what Nikon pays for an Fx sensor

or what percentage, of the final retail price of a camera, that is

heartyfisher

Compared to ?? D810 ? D7200 ?

a Pro FX camera

Note : A DX sensor is generally 10% the price of a FX sensor

but we have absolutely no idea, what Nikon pays for an Fx sensor

or what percentage, of the final retail price of a camera, that is

All true but the it still remains. DX is generally 10% of the FX price.. its been discussed and established and accepted to be mostly accurate.
I think the summary of the points were as follows
1) Number of sensors in a standard wafer of silicon : DX vs FX. will not change. Furthermore you can relatively get more DX per wafer than you can get FX ie there is more wasted space due to the larger size of FX.
2) Chances of errors is exponential vs area of sensor.
2.1) the electronic
2.2) as well as the silicon . note you cant reroute as you can with a CPU since a pixel must be in a fixed position physically.
2.3) manufacture and handling process introduces more errors the larger the sensor.
3) Miniaturization of tech doesn't improve errors but increases it.
4) Silicone wafer costs do not decrease but increase. Tech and logic circuit Miniaturization may reduce the size of a CPU but does not reduce the sizes of the sensors. Thus cost of sensors are directly related to cost of silicon wafers.

I am sure there are several points I missed .. however the result was that the DX sensor will cost approximately 10% of an FX sensor.

sevencrossing

. however the result was that the DX sensor will cost approximately 10% of an FX sensor.

Given that a D610 FX is currently approx the same price as a D7200 Dx

I can only conclude. The manufacturing cost of a sensor, is a fairly small part of the retail price of a camera