Nikon D4x

WestEndBoy

Well we have official confirmation that there's a D4S soon, that alone is significant for those considering a D4 purchase.

It's actually smart for them not to announce during CES, and maybe the D4S specs are not yet finalized.

I bet that there are over a 1,000 D4s/x boxed and ready to go as we speak.

PB_PM

Look like it will be the D4 with a newer EXPEED processor and thats about it.

henrik1963

I think that it is nice info to have:

We are working on a new D4.
It is coming soon.
We will improve image quality
We will improve AF

If you think Canon has something better than the current D4 - wait and see what we come up with before you buy :-)

Hallvardk

Maybe a bit OT, but does anyone have any clue on how the release of the D4s will affect the prices of the D4 and D3s? Will we see a significant drop in second hand bodies?

Ade

Significant drop? Probably not.

There will be some price drop, but it's the usual supply vs. demand and I don't think we'll see a flood of used D3s and D4 cameras hitting the market.

Ade

I bet that there are over a 1,000 D4s/x boxed and ready to go as we speak.

You may be right. It's been hard to parse the rumors, into two camps:

- First camp says the D4S is already in full production at Sendai, displacing the Df at the production line. Announcement as soon as this month, shipping mid or late February. Select few will get to play with production D4S cameras in time for the winter olympics.

- Second camp says the D4S is still in pre-production. Sendai is preparing the production line, but not yet in full production. Hence they are delaying the official announcement until they are in manufacturing. Select few will get pre-production copies for testing. Announcement later in February or March, shipping a month later.

Photobug

IMHO the current D4 should only drop $500 in price. I would expect a few to hit eBay and trade-in at dealers. Most pros will keep the D4 for a backup to the new D4X. The price drop on the D4 will only be to provide room between it and the new D4X.

I sure would not expect a big price drop, unless there were a huge inventory. Based upon an earlier post there is not a lot of inventory of the D4.

Ade

"Hasselblad is set to launch the world's first 50MP medium format camera using CMOS sensor technology."

http://press.hasselblad.com/press-releases/2014/2014-01-21_h5d-50c.aspx

Looks like a pre-emptive strike vs. the D4X and any possible MF Nikon.

adamz

Hassy will never be a direct competitor to any of the 35mm cameras, due to one factor PRICE. No matter how you will look at it, there's no way to manufacture medium format chip in the price of 35mm one.

shawnino

Maybe Hasselblad will just rebadge a Sony A7r, call it the Galactic, cover it in plywood and real, Corinthian leather, and sell it for a cool $30K?

Ade

Hassy will never be a direct competitor to any of the 35mm cameras, due to one factor PRICE. No matter how you will look at it, there's no way to manufacture medium format chip in the price of 35mm one.

Well yes and no. Yes they will never be a direct competitor. But we also know that the D800/e stole some sales from the medium format market, including from Hasselblad.

So Nikon is a competitor to Hasseblad whether Hasselblad likes it or not. And it looks very likely that either Nikon or Canon (or both) will introduce a 54mp flagship this year, probably in the $8,000 price point. When that happens, the value proposition for a $20,000++ H5D becomes more and more difficult.

Hasselblad has to respond by re-setting the MF bar: in terms of price, performance, versatility, or all three. Going to a shared CMOS process gives them a lot of options. They can introduce a next generation sensor at the same or lower price point than before, while offering features like Live View and high ISO performance we take for granted in the 35mm world. This move gives them a head start vs. Phase One, and the ability to justify the MF platform vs. a possible D4X.

Ironheart

Perhaps the new CMOS sensor will allow a shutter speed faster than 1/800th (current max speed) or greater than 1.1 seconds per frame (yes, you read that right)

Golf007sd

I wonder what the max ISO will be....hmmm :-?

WestEndBoy

Perhaps the new CMOS sensor will allow a shutter speed faster than 1/800th (current max speed) or greater than 1.1 seconds per frame (yes, you read that right)

I wonder if these will be important considerations for Hasselblad. Where lighting is controlled, the shutter speed and ISO is likely less important and the type of photography common with this camera would never tolerate a high ISO as lighting can always be adjusted to eliminate the need.

FPS could be a pretty important consideration though.

Someday the cost of the medium format sensor will decline to where full frame prices are today. This is where I disagree with Adamz. At that point, mf could become a direct competitor to 35mm. Then things will get interesting.

henrik1963

How large do we need to print/display our pictures? I think there will be a practical limit to our needs. Maybe 35 mm will be able to meet our needs in the future? Better sensors, better lenses and better software may lead to the death of MF? If for no other reason than cost cutting.

WestEndBoy

There will always be somebody that wants bigger and I think printing misses the point. Many consider printing old school and are pixel peepers. I am somewhat in that camp.

scoobysmak

There will always be somebody that wants bigger and I think printing misses the point. Many consider printing old school and are pixel peepers. I am somewhat in that camp.

If you want to pixel peep at a 100 MP image go for it, after your done 3 years later with one photo the advances in camera technology will have changed again. I do understand your argument but agree there is a point where its no longer required unless you need to print a bill board sized photo that you can view from 6 inches away and be happy with it. At this point it will be advertisements spamming the sides of buildings trying to sell me stuff I don't need. And of course at this point it won't have to be printed because it will be done with an LED sign that can be changed on the fly.

There has always be the debate of how many MP does it take before my lens will not be able to resolve the sensor. If you take 35mm fine grain film to a high quality drum scanner I think you can resolve up to around 130 MP (I did the research once but it has been a few years and I could be way off base with this number, I do know its more than a D800 on a high quality scanner though). The big key here is the scanner and film used. I know this point some lenses would be way "soft" for lack of a better term but something had to get that resolution so they could even tell. I think newer lenses will have to be more on target that previous generations but overall when someone takes a photo and post it on facebook they only used 1/50th of what a camera can do today.

henrik1963

@jshickele: You are saying MF is like horses? They may no longer be needed. But a few keep them just because they like them - as good a reason as any I guess :-)

WestEndBoy

@jshickele: You are saying MF is like horses? They may no longer be needed. But a few keep them just because they like them - as good a reason as any I guess :-)

That is a fair comment. I think that there is more to it than that, but I think you have identified a significant portion of the market. Sensor prices will be coming down, so the horses may be pretty cheap in the end. So another thing I am saying is that you will eventually going to buy a medium format sensor for the same price as a full frame, so manufacturers will try to exploit a potential market.

Another variable is the lenses, which are probably turning into the real constraint today. There are fewer constraints on lens design in larger formats.

henrik1963

@jshickele: I think you are right - most of us don't buy what we absolutely need but what we want.

I like my D800 even if I don't need it for most of what I do - it is a wonderful tool - I enjoy taking pictures with it.

When prices come down to a point where I can buy a large format view camera for the price of a D800 I just might get one :-)

Msmoto

SkyMeow Asked:

I had very high hopes of new D4S, but after I have read the latest info on it, I have completely lost interest in upgrading my D4 to D4S. Now I'm look at the next one after D4S. By any chance Nikon might release D4X in near future? Or they will just go strait to D5 2 years from now?

sevencrossing

SkyMeow Asked:

I had very high hopes of new D4S, but after I have read the latest info on it, I have completely lost interest in upgrading my D4 to D4S. Now I'm look at the next one after D4S. By any chance Nikon might release D4X in near future? Or they will just go strait to D5 2 years from now?

my prediction is in I about 2 years we get a D5 with 24 MP a D900, 40mp, 8fps with battery pack, wi fi compatible both might have a built in pocket wizard -

Photobug

SkyMeow Asked:

my prediction is in I about 2 years we get a D5 with 24 MP a D900, 40mp, 8fps with battery pack, wi fi compatible both might have a built in pocket wizard -

Now that would be an interesting DSLR. I am so happy to see that the new D4S will sell at the same price as the D4. That one surprised me. After all these high priced lens it's nice to see the body price remaining the same.

FreezeAction

One the subject of how big do we need to print, well there are or at least used to be 3 6' x 16' murals on the walls at the Ft. Lauderdale, FL airport. Each of those were made in one shot. It would seem that in large open spaces there will always be a need for ultra large prints. When the investment was made to develop 126" wide photographic print quality printers (1440 dpi) there must be a reason behind that logic. From experience I can make a case for a 54M body @1 frame a second and a D4x or whatever at only 10mp but with good performance at ISO 12,800 @ 15 FPS. The only justification for even 10MP would be to allow for some cropping. Short bursts at 15 FPS for erratic and fast moving subjects would suit my needs fine for most things. One the other hand while shooting landscapes every possible pixel is always welcome. Some things cannot be shot in multiples and stitched together for a large quality print. You, at least I, don't stitch in a howling wind. No problem stitching Mt. Rushmore though. I see a "Field of Dreams" scenario. Build them and someone will buy them. Whether a speeding shutter sports model or a stretch limo landscape model. It may be long after my time but maybe the day will come when a CMOS sensor will replace a 6cm x 17cm strip of Provia. That far exceeds the D4x/s sports body... For what it was intended to do I see no need for more pixels in any new D4 type body, just more of everything else.