Death of F-mount DX Challenge

mhedges

Well sure DX gear will remain very useable for quite a long time. But this thread is more about DX F mount being a going concern at Nikon. I'm thinking with the Z50 announcement it's already dead in that there will be no more new DX F mount products released. But the existing stuff will still be sold for a while.

NSXTypeR

mhedges said:

Well sure DX gear will remain very useable for quite a long time. But this thread is more about DX F mount being a going concern at Nikon. I'm thinking with the Z50 announcement it's already dead in that there will be no more new DX F mount products released. But the existing stuff will still be sold for a while.

That's what I mean. It's not like Nikon had multiple DX lenses announced every year, it was always a trickle anyway. I doubt they have any new DX lenses to announce for next year.

The way I see it, film is a dead format too, but plenty of people use it still for fun. DX would be similar, effectively there likely won't be new lenses, but it's not like all the DX DSLRs ever produced broke overnight.

WestEndFoto

Yes MHedges, that is what it is about. When I created the thread, I was not talking about APS-C, but DX on the f-mount. I am sure that APS-C will live on - Fuji for example.

FreezeAction

I can't help but believe that Nikon will have enough DX engineering going to play product chess with Canon and anyone else who continues to introduce crop sensor dslr bodies. Canon just released their 90D crop sensor body at 32MP and I can verify that the images are very good. I have worked some with them and they will produce some crop room on top of full 24x36 inch poster prints. From what I've read they have a problem focusing reliably except in live view. That's a real bummer for Canon users. What happens happens but I do hope that Nikon will not abandon their base that will prefer the dslr dx format. There are enough existing F mount lenses for the F mount whether crop or full frame without investing more R&D dollars in them. By all rights they should be most supportive of their base that is buying mirrorless with new needed native S lenses. They should be supportive of all those who have invested in Nikon over the years. If they dump the F mount then some of us will get steal deals on F mount glass in addition to what we currently use. DX F mount I hope survives the coming decade at least. For the sake of the company survival they will have to produce what a sometimes fickle market will buy. We all have to make do with what the bulk of the market desires.

NSXTypeR

FreezeAction said:

I can't help but believe that Nikon will have enough DX engineering going to play product chess with Canon and anyone else who continues to introduce crop sensor dslr bodies.

From what I understand, Canon's EOS M mount can't adapt their full frame R mount lenses. I think that's a significant advantage to Nikon because Canon released their crop frame mirrorless way too early. So even if EOS M users wanted to upgrade to full fram Canon mirrorless, it's a potential full set of new glass. So although Canon is a much larger corporation, Nikon's mirrorless offerings seem to make much more sense than Canon's and I think is easier to sustain as you can borrow lenses from the full frame side for crop frame.

snakebunk

I would not be surprised if Nikon releases a D500 successor.

Pistnbroke

So what exactly is the problem with the FTZ adaptor?

mhedges

Most of the complaints I see are that it doesn't support AF on screw drive lenses.

Also some complaints that it is too big, and/or that the bottom of it doesn't sit flush with the bottom of the Z cameras.

FreezeAction

snakebunk said:

I would not be surprised if Nikon releases a D500 successor.

I hope so. I would like one to go beside the D500 and not to replace it. On the other hand I have few suggestions for making the D500 better. Perhaps dual CFexpress memory slots? 12-14 fps? Or reduce it to 8 and increase the resolution to 32 like Canon's 90D? ISO 64 with extended to 32? A rugged pro DX body at 32MP with a 100 shot buffer capable of capturing images for 32x48 landscape or wildlife prints would attract myself if no one else. It would be heavier than the FF mirrorless but much lighter than the D6. It might take sales from the D6 unless the D6 far exceeds a D5**.

donaldejose

I do suspect we will see one more round of Nikon's most highly regarded current and announced DSLR bodies updated before the end of the DSLR era. So there is likely to be a D6s, a replacement for the D750, a replacement for the D850 and a replacement for the D500. Less likely may be a replacement for the D3500, D5600, and D7500 although I think at least a few of them will also have one more upgrade before they are replaced by mirrorless alternatives Nikon can sell at the same price point.

retread

Do you think a D6 - D600 kind of thing could happen? The name D600 is taken but you can get my idea. Maybe DX600...

FreezeAction

retread said:

Do you think a D6 - D600 kind of thing could happen? The name D600 is taken but you can get my idea. Maybe DX600...

I think so as the D5 and D500 it would seem have made Nikon profits. By using the same basic bodies so R&D is kept at a minimum so investment could be in sensors and firmware a viable product could be produced. How fickle the market would treat them would be another story. A DX600 would be most welcomed by some of us at least.

WestEndFoto

FreezeAction said:

retread said:

Do you think a D6 - D600 kind of thing could happen? The name D600 is taken but you can get my idea. Maybe DX600...

I think so as the D5 and D500 it would seem have made Nikon profits. By using the same basic bodies so R&D is kept at a minimum so investment could be in sensors and firmware a viable product could be produced. How fickle the market would treat them would be another story. A DX600 would be most welcomed by some of us at least.

I think that you would see a D560 and it would be an update of the D500. I am skeptical of this though. It was not a dud, but neither did it fly off the shelves. I think that with the Z-mount Nikon has to pick and choose what to continue in F-mount.

I am further skeptical because when the D850 was released, D500 sales declined significantly. There was no longer a "pixel on the bird" advantage to DX and the D500 only had a 1 fps advantage to the D850 with a grip. The D850 in DX crop mode was essentially a D500.

donaldejose

If Nikon puts out a D500 successor (say a D550 or a D6Dx or a D620) with some of the technology developed for the D6 using the same body as the D500 it wouldn't be too much of an investment for Nikon and should be worth the return on investment even if it sells in small numbers. So I do think it will happen next year. With a shrinking market it would allow them to capture some sales from people happy with their D500 who wouldn't replace it otherwise.

WestEndFoto

They may only get half the sales. Many D500 users will be happy and not want to upgrade. Most others that wanted such a camera bought the D500 or moved on.

FreezeAction

I still don't think I would upgrade my D500 for 4MP... I would use it as a spare for 10MP though... I'd sacrifice 2 fps and half the buffer size for those 10MP... Half the buffer size should be adequate with CFexpress cards. I think the two bodies would compliment each other especially if the menus and buttons were twins.

donaldejose

We will have to see what the D6 offers before we will know whether any "trickle down" technology or features from the D6 would make a D500 iteration compelling. I don't yet know what that D6 will offer. Maybe nothing significant. Maybe just minor additions, such as 4 more megapixels. Nikon should produce a 60+ mp D6x and pair that with a 30+ iteration of the D500.

jaeger

DX is a marketing strategy to create an illusion that FX is professional and you should pay more. I don't see big savings for a 30% smaller sensor. It's a common practices in semiconductor industry, the cost of circuits are almost identical but they make slower CPU (for example) to make you feel you need to pay more for faster.

mhedges

jaeger said:

DX is a marketing strategy to create an illusion that FX is professional and you should pay more. I don't see big savings for a 30% smaller sensor. It's a common practices in semiconductor industry, the cost of circuits are almost identical but they make slower CPU (for example) to make you feel you need to pay more for faster.

The DX sensor is more than 30% smaller. Its less than half the size of the FX sensor. I think it's about 60% smaller.

What you say about the semicounductor industry is true, but still die size is the number one factor in cost, and the typical way to achieve a cost savings is a die size reduction.

tc88

WestEndFoto said:

Many D500 users will be happy and not want to upgrade. Most others that wanted such a camera bought the D500 or moved on.

Agree. Besides, at this point, looks like Nikon is not even bothering upgrading the DX sensor resolution with Z50 stay at 21mp. The market for the next version will be very small. I doubt there will be another "pro" DX one.

spraynpray

If Nikon bring out a 30 MP (ish) DX with D850 AF and functionality I will drop my FX like a hot potato and buy it. For me and my use, the DX with FX lenses is the best compromise there is.

I have no experience of mirrorless, but I have no problem using the old DSLR's.

WestEndFoto

What if the D869 has 60mp Spraynpray.

spraynpray

FX gives me too many problems. Very hard to stitch astro pano's and too shallow DoF for macro to name just two. Honestly.

I have been looking through my best shots tonight and 95+ percent of them are DX. One is even a Sony crop sensor shot lol!

I pine for a higher Res DX sensor than the D7100 in a D500 body. Oh yeah.

snakebunk

After the D6, a D560 with 28mp, 12fps and D6 like af would get a lot of attention. After that Nikon can come out with a D860 and gain attention once again. I think Nikon knows how to play the market, but my personal opinion is that they should focus on Z mount. My guess is that we will not se more of the less expensive DSLRs.

WestEndFoto

Spraynpray, just shoot or crop your D850 to DX and your DOF issue is solved as it will be the same as a DX camera.

Why is it hard to stitch astro panos?

Plus a D869 will provide other non-photography benefits.