Death of F-mount DX Challenge

mhedges

snakebunk said:

After the D6, a D560 with 28mp, 12fps and D6 like af would get a lot of attention. After that Nikon can come out with a D860 and gain attention once again. I think Nikon knows how to play the market, but my personal opinion is that they should focus on Z mount. My guess is that we will not se more of the less expensive DSLRs.

I agree. D3500 is new enough to stick around for a while. And I think it already would have happened if they were going to replace the 5600 with another DSLR.

WestEndFoto said:

Spraynpray, just shoot or crop your D850 to DX and your DOF issue is solved as it will be the same as a DX camera.



Why is it hard to stitch astro panos?



Plus a D869 will provide other non-photography benefits.

Just curious - do you shoot the D850 in DX mode, or crop later? Is the viewfinder very small if you shoot in DX?

WestEndFoto

MHedges, I never crop in camera. If I feel like I need to shoot in DX I put a longer lens on, or a teleconverter if I am already at 400. Or in my minds eye I might be composing in 1:1, 3:4 or 4:5. But I do the cropping in post.

Pistnbroke

As the stars at are such a great distance will not the depth of field be the same on FX and DX ? DX only has a notional greater depth of field because you have to stand further back to get the same view with DX. Its only a lens in front of a sensor irrespective of the size of the sensor

WestEndFoto

Yes, DOF is irrelevant at infinity or near infinity.

spraynpray

WestEndFoto said:

Spraynpray, just shoot or crop your D850 to DX and your DOF issue is solved as it will be the same as a DX camera.



Why is it hard to stitch astro panos?



Plus a D869 will provide other non-photography benefits.

If I shoot my D850 in DX it is the worst of all worlds - lower pixel count and too huge and heavy.

Light drop off and distortion make stitching star shots harder.

Pistnbroke

So its a lens problem.....

spraynpray

I have yet to find any fast ultrawide that will reliably stitch. The 35mm Art will but it isn't wide enough, I need at least 24mm. I had many copies of the usual favourites but no luck.

Any suggestions?

FreezeAction

I tried stitching with a 20mm and 28mm Sigma art and they flopped too. My 35mm Art is the only lens I've got reliable images with that I could stitch.

mhedges

For stitching I've mostly heard of folks using longer lenses (like 85 or 105's) in Portrait, then stitching those results together.

WestEndFoto

Yeah, I most often use my 58 to stitch. What is the challenge with doing it that way Spraynpray?

spraynpray

I guess I must be lazy! Seriously though, by the time I have shot frames for noise averaging and stitching for a wide sky shot I have had enough. My buddy does multi-row pano's with noise averaging using longer lenses but he has an inexhaustible appetite for post processing.

WestEndFoto

Yes, that is reasonable Spraynpray.

NSXTypeR

I'm surprised the Nikkor 16-80 DX is still selling for $1000. I would have assumed that there would be a fire sale on them as DX's days are numbered.

Pistnbroke

We still got the D500 D7500 D5600 D3500 to feed

WestEndFoto

I think they will milk it for some time yet. They need at least a Z70 and maybe a Z30.

NSXTypeR

That's fair.

Honestly, the Z50 isn't that compelling to me as it only has 2 competent but slow kit lenses. You'd have to pull from the other F-mount lenses via adapter to get decent lens selection. So for now, I don't think there's a good reason yet to swap to Z mount DX cameras unless you've never owned a DSLR, which is difficult as Nikon DSLRs have been very cheap lately.

Pistnbroke

The yellow box 30 day trial will pull in some suckers but no available in the UK so far

PB_PM

What I see happening with the program is this, many people will try it out, and less than 10% will keep them. Lots of cheap refurbs coming to Nikon USA's website come summer.

tc88

Nikon is counting on people miss their deadlines to return. Maybe it can also allow them to fudge the numbers a little bit if those loaners out can be booked as sales, (but the quantity is probably too small to have any impact).

mhedges

PB_PM said:

What I see happening with the program is this, many people will try it out, and less than 10% will keep them. Lots of cheap refurbs coming to Nikon USA's website come summer.

Less than 10%? How do you figure that? That seems like an awfully low number. Unless most people just want to get some hands on but have no intention of keeping it no matter what. Which I doubt is the case.

NSXTypeR

tc88 said:

Nikon is counting on people miss their deadlines to return. Maybe it can also allow them to fudge the numbers a little bit if those loaners out can be booked as sales, (but the quantity is probably too small to have any impact).

I didn't realize you pay the full price of the camera and then get refunded afterwards if you return the camera in time.

This isn't a library book we're talking about here, I'm going to remember to return the camera if I dropped $1000 to rent it.

PB_PM

mhedges said:

PB_PM said:

What I see happening with the program is this, many people will try it out, and less than 10% will keep them. Lots of cheap refurbs coming to Nikon USA's website come summer.

Less than 10%? How do you figure that? That seems like an awfully low number. Unless most people just want to get some hands on but have no intention of keeping it no matter what. Which I doubt is the case.

Good chance that the bulk of people will be youtube reviewer wannabees, or people who want to test the water before jumping for a better Z-mount camera. A program like this for the Z6 or Z7 would have likely reduced the amount of people coming at it from that angle, since $2000+ is a little harder for most people to plunk down.

DaveyJ

Just purchased a Z 50 and the two kit lenses. I’ll be using D7500 and the 16-80, 70-300 AF-P DX VR, and the great Nikon 200-500 f5.6 that long lens Mostly with my D7200 and now having both DX DSLR and the Z mount DX camera system says I myself have MORE faith in
DX And am trying both the DSLR AND Z DX systems. Why not full frame? Reason, I want wide depth of field, prefer that to wide aperture, and WANT the extra reach of DX. I shoot almost all in the field where it is NOT an option to move closer, can’t get out of a boat, or off shore, etc., so the DX approx. 1.5 multiplier effect is ideal for me. My incredibly expensive foray years ago into large format film cameras and medium format left me with sincere reservation against large formats. Luckily in that era I started using film 35 mm cameras to meter with and abandoned the 1 degree spot meters, and discovered the 35mm images were often more useful than the huge images. Then digital replaced film even for me....I’ve tried FF digital, see little advantage. My son and grandson shoot lots of stuff at 7 and 8 K. The editing and final publishing requires heavy duty investment. DX is very far from dead! Also recent late 2019 reports from Japan list the new Nikon Z 50 as selling over there really well!

Pistnbroke

The fantasy continues ...the is no extra depth of field. With the same lens at the same distance you get the same DOF be it FX or DX.
There is no extra reach with DX the image ( of a bird) you get on the sensor is the same size with FX or DX .

The illusion comes from having to stand further back with DX to get the same frame fill and being further back you get more depth of field .

mhedges

Pistnbroke said:

The fantasy continues ...the is no extra depth of field. With the same lens at the same distance you get the same DOF be it FX or DX.
There is no extra reach with DX the image ( of a bird) you get on the sensor is the same size with FX or DX .

The illusion comes from having to stand further back with DX to get the same frame fill and being further back you get more depth of field .

Come on. The practical effect is more DOF. It's immediately noticable.

For an image with the same FOV and aperture setting you get more DOF on DX because you can use a shorter lens.