D500 General Discussion Thread

PB_PM

I agree with @Paperman, a little bit of nonsense in that statement, that's not even true of much higher end cameras with better sensors.

heartyfisher

I think it was a bit exaggerated .. but not by much .. its one of the most ISO invariant sensors I have seen...

heartyfisher

Paperman

heartyfisher said:

I think it was a bit exaggerated .. but not by much .. its one of the most ISO invariant sensors I have seen...

Even though it is a term I started hearing recently, I think something else is meant by " ISO invariant " . It is not that there is little or no IQ difference between shots at high and low ISOs.....

It is just that a shot at ( let's say ) ISO 1600 gives same IQ/noise level as a 4 stop underexposed shot at ISO 100 pushed to correct exposure during post-process ( So the ISO1600 noise is still there ).

Ironheart

Paperman said:

Ironheart said:

........ that there is almost no difference between shooting at ISO 100 and ISO 6400........

C'mon Ironheart ....Seriously

Yeah, no I was exaggerating a bit there

spraynpray

Only a little bit though eh?

When I first got my D7100 (now 1-1/2 to 2 generations old) I took a string of photos of the same subject (just my PC on my desktop) in a room with average to bright lighting by compact flourescent lamps at 100 to 6400 in full stops on a tripod and he was blown away by how very little difference in noise there was. I am sure the D500 is way better than that too.

Reduce the light level however, and then the difference pops up and FX comes to the rescue.

Golf007sd

When is comes to maintaining dynamic range...there is quite a difference in images taken at ISO 100 vs those taken at 6400. If you have a D800/810 this can be very easily tested. If you own a D800/810 you know exactly what I mean.

heartyfisher

Had a look at the imaging resources comparator .. and the D500 looks like it has about 1 stop advantage over the D7200 at High ISO ie at about 12800. To me it looks to me that at medium ISO its about the same. Though the colours in the D500 seem richer. However, there seems to have been some magic fairy dust added at the higher ISO.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

donaldejose

I have seen comments anywhere from one third f-stop improvement to somewhere over 1 f-stop improvement. Perhaps we all can agree it currently is the best DX for high ISO shooting?

"There's good news in store – in our initial testing the D500's performance is class-leading with respect to low light (high ISO) noise performance, as well as dynamic range."

http://www.dpreview.com/news/4939144988/nikon-d500-studio-and-dynamic-range-tests-published?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=related-news&utm_medium=text&ref=related-news

We will see what future review bring.

pictureted

I can't compare the D500 to the D7200, but I certainly prefer it to the D7100. The DR seems superior and the lower MPs don't make any difference. Not up to the D810, but wow, what a camera. I'm basing this on shooting RAW, converting in LR and generally shooting lower ISO. The couple of times I played with higher ISOs with the D500, it seemed nearly able to see and focus in the dark.

Sports

Asked one of the bigger stores in Denmark about the D500.
They received one D500 from Nikon, and delivered it to a customer.
They expect the next batch from Nikon in June, and didn't tell me if that would again be just one body.
If Thom is right about only 15,000 being shipped in total, that could equal one month's production .... which would imply many months of waiting time.
When the D800 was launched, Nikon actually stated that they wanted to build 30,000 a month.

retread

Talk of a shortage makes me feel fortunate to have received both the D500 and the MB-D17 grip, learning how to use them now.

pictureted

All good things come to those who wait. I'm glad Nikon has such a hit with the D500. My serial # is - dropping the first digit before many zeros - less than 200. I wonder how many they produced and what the rate of production is? Since I bought into the Nikon system (about 1972), I have an interest in their long term success and viability. With the D500 home run, maybe they'll decide to add some nice DX primes.

Paperman

Nikon is either taking it slow to create demand or to minimize damage in case of any unforeseen problems arise like in previous models. Nikon produces ( they used to ) 3-4 million DSLRs a year and surely can produce more than 15k pieces of a model a month.

donaldejose

Yes! The D500 is great. Now let's have some equally great DX prime and "holy trinity" zoom lenses. Keep them light to balance with the D500 body. We don't need f1.4 DX primes because the D500 has such good high ISO ability. F1.8 or f2 or f2.8 will be enough. I am experimenting with some I have on hand. Good matches I have found so far include the 70-200 f4 for a zoom and for primes the 85mm f1.8, 50mm f1.8 and 1.4 (because it is light), 35mm f1.8, and 40mm f2.8 macro (because it is sharper than the 35mm f1.8). I have a photo shoot involving 1 to 4 persons on Sunday and I have decided to shoot it with the light 24-85 G lens on my D500 because it gives me an equivalent 36 to 127.5 mm range. I don't shoot groups wider than 35mm because 24 mm distorts too much. Women on the ends of the group don't want to be "widened" by lens distortion. I find around 85 to 105 mm is good for waist up shots while 120 to 135mm is good for head shots. Since I will be using the center of this FX lens it should be sharp. I find most people are not into having one eye out of focus. I usually use f4 or 5.6 for portraits so this lens won't be too slow. If anyone is using the new 16-80 lens please post how it performs.

PB_PM

Paperman said:

Nikon is either taking it slow to create demand or to minimize damage in case of any unforeseen problems arise like in previous models. Nikon produces ( they used to ) 3-4 million DSLRs a year and surely can produce more than 15k pieces of a model a month.

Don't be so sure about that. Most estimates put production of a DSLR like the D500 at 5000-7000 a month. Production is always an issue for DSLRs, because so much of the process still has to be done by hand. There are only so many people working in the factory, and hiring extra workers for launch isn't terribly practical due to the skills required (a steady hand, and an aptitude for working with electronics). Most companies will try to build some inventory before release, but early demand for products like the D500 often out pace estimates, or the ability to product quantity before launch.

Even if the made 3 million cameras a year that would be 250,000 a month between all models and factories. The vast majority of cameras sold are still point and shoots. Also keep in mind that the Thailand factory is also making, D3xxxs, D5x00's, D7x00s, D750, and the D810, not even considering the lenses made there. They are unlikely to stop product of those cameras and lenses just to make the D500.

donaldejose

It is not just the assembling of the body which can be increased at will. You also have to have all the parts available to assemble the body. A shortage of just one part can bring the whole assembly line to a halt. Thus, Nikon has to notify all suppliers to produce more parts than they initially scheduled and ship all those additional parts to the assembly point before Nikon can even schedule an increase in the assembly line production. There must be a significant lead time needed to get additional parts made and shipped to the point of assembly. Perhaps not all suppliers can produce more parts at will.

PB_PM

Indeed. Also, even if Nikon were making 20k D500's a month, that still wouldn't solve the problem. Why? If Nikon was shipping the D500 to just 10 countries globally (which I'm sure it's shipping to more than that), it would mean each distributor (Nikon USA, Nikon Canada, Nikon Europe etc) would only receive 2,000 a month! Now double that to 20 countries, and each distributor gets 1,000 bodies a month, and so on and so forth.

So if Nikon got 60k pre-orders globally (just picked a number out of a hat), it would take 3 months to meet that demand (if they were actually making 20k a month, which I doubt). Now add in non-pre orders and you can see why it would take time. I'm also betting NPS members get first dibs, before others, so for anyone who is impatient, don't get your shorts in a knot and wait.

dissent

I have more than enough to do learning to use my current DX and lenses, but I could see perhaps picking up one of these new-fangled D500's next year some time.

pictureted

Another issue in forecasting supply with a new model is the possibility of yield issues with the chipsets or sensors. Until you've completed a batch, you don't know how many you'll get.

DaveyJ

donalddejose asks about the 16-80 Nikkor. I was the first person to rate that lens in the USA and still have not used it on the D500 but on the D7200 and D7100 it is my single favorite lens. However I in no way advocate a one lens Nikon to an enthusiast. My choice for a second lens depends on where I am going.....if wide is needed I use the Sigma 10-20 DX a lot, longer lens needed, the 70-300 is often my choice. Why not 200-500 f5.6? Cause often the target moves towards me rather than moving away, and the 70 mm part of that lens saves the day.
I also admire the 55-300 Nikkor, a modest lens which is about half the size of the fast focusing 70-300. I own FOUR 70-300s. I like the 80-400 but that price is just to high for me to spurge given my "retirement" which means MORE work hours and way less money! Nikon has given us some marvelous choices now and most of just need to have the right subject and the right lighting. Many of you are into photographing flying birds. I have some of the best Ruffed Grouse photos I have ever seen. However the thunderous take off of that bird eludes me to this day. Brown Bears, Elk, Whitetail Bucks, Brook Trout under water, Bluefin Tuna underwater, you name it, I've got it....but Ruffed Grouse on the power takeoff......no dice!
Maybe a D500 will be charmed!

donaldejose

Good to hear that the 16-80 is a good lens. I will get one this year, probably on sale. There as no discount on the package deal with the D500 so I didn't see it as a value and just bought the D500 body on a preorder.

pictureted

donaldejose said:

Good to hear that the 16-80 is a good lens. I will get one this year, probably on sale. There as no discount on the package deal with the D500 so I didn't see it as a value and just bought the D500 body on a preorder.

I've been quite happy with the 16-85VR and would recommend a used or refurbed, if you want to save money on a lens that's almost as good and a bit smaller with a little more reach.

donaldejose

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a6hWuPd74U

Paperman

PB_PM said:

.......

Even if the made 3 million cameras a year that would be 250,000 a month between all models and factories. The vast majority of cameras sold are still point and shoots. Also keep in mind that the Thailand factory is also making, D3xxxs, D5x00's, D7x00s, D750, and the D810, not even considering the lenses made there. They are unlikely to stop product of those cameras and lenses just to make the D500.

3-4 million units is DSLRs only. Total global camera sales were near 100 million units of which 10-11 million were DSLRs. These are the figures of a few years ago when Nikon had 30-35% share. We had topics in the past about Nikon Global sales in NR - reports showing Nikon DSLR sales of 4 million bodies/year.