NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

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  • HikerHiker Posts: 197Member
    edited April 2018
    Searcy said:

    Well, I speak strictly from a personal and selfish position. I I have a d7200 and four Nikon lenses. An 18-200VRDX. A 35mmDX 1.8. A 50mm FX 1.8 and a AF-S 24-70 2.8 ED VR. So as you can see I don't have a lot of gear and I'm far from a cutting edge sort of guy. But I feel it's time for me to go to a full fame camera. I was thinking of a d850 but after spending some time with a Sony A7III I'm thinking of switching. The new A7III has solved some of the issues I had with other Sony mirrorless cameras. It has a respectable battery life, two SD slots and better controls on the body. When it comes to video which I do need sometimes there is no comparison. The Sony wins. The EVF and the auto focus are the main selling points for me. The EyeAF is cool for what I do too.

    So IF I were going to switch it seems like now wold be the time as I don't have a lot of Nikon glass to worry about and the price point of the A7III takes a lot of the sting out of switching.

    I'm not 100% decided yet but I'm about 80% sure I will be buying a Sony A7III before the end of the year.

    Fro Knows has a comparison of the Nikon D750, Canon 6D Mii and the new Sony A7iii. Actually made me laugh! Unfair comparison? He admits it since the D750 is over 3 years old now. I'm waiting for Xmas to see what Sony offers if anything. And wondering what Nikon will release in a mirrorless camera. And like I've stated before I have one older Nikon 70-300. That's it for Nikon glass. Everything else is 3rd party. And to me? Even if Nikon does release a FX mirrorless. I'm guessing my FX glass I use on my 7200 will be unusable.
    Post edited by Hiker on
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 2,326Member
    Searcy ..is the sony AR7 ii missing something you need at about $2000 ?
  • HikerHiker Posts: 197Member
    Searcy said:

    Well, I speak strictly from a personal and selfish position. I I have a d7200 and four Nikon lenses. An 18-200VRDX. A 35mmDX 1.8. A 50mm FX 1.8 and a AF-S 24-70 2.8 ED VR. So as you can see I don't have a lot of gear and I'm far from a cutting edge sort of guy. But I feel it's time for me to go to a full fame camera. I was thinking of a d850 but after spending some time with a Sony A7III I'm thinking of switching. The new A7III has solved some of the issues I had with other Sony mirrorless cameras. It has a respectable battery life, two SD slots and better controls on the body. When it comes to video which I do need sometimes there is no comparison. The Sony wins. The EVF and the auto focus are the main selling points for me. The EyeAF is cool for what I do too.

    So IF I were going to switch it seems like now wold be the time as I don't have a lot of Nikon glass to worry about and the price point of the A7III takes a lot of the sting out of switching.

    I'm not 100% decided yet but I'm about 80% sure I will be buying a Sony A7III before the end of the year.

    I'm heading to Tempe Camera in Phoenix tomorrow to get my hands on a A7Riii to see how it feels in my hand and get their thoughts on the new line. They have no A7iii's. They sold out or didn't get their stock in. When I was looking to upgrade my D3300, a couple of sales people were trying to steer me to Sony. "They are the future of cameras" according to them. And their Sony lineup is off to the side btw. Nikon and Canon's are right in front of you. So they are not actually pushing one in the Sony direction. I read the Rumors page before signing in to this forum. All of them...good thing those guys on the Nikon Mirrorless Cameras Rumor page are NOT in government...well..maybe some are!!

    The truth is, and this is my personal opinion only, Sony has undercut Nikon and Canon with this new A7iii. I'm waiting to see what the verdict is in the next 6 months as to any bugs, etc. Whether Nikon has been working on a mirrorless camera for the past couple of years or not, they are late to the train. To me they both seem to have been blinded by what Sony and others have been doing. Unless they come out with something mirrorless, comparable to the A7Riii or even the A7iii they should just stick to DSLR's. And after reading all those "rumors" (and getting dizzy) I do NOT want a mirrorless D850 or 750. At my age, I'm looking at something that's smaller.
  • rmprmp Posts: 572Member
    I see Thom Hogan is predicting 3 new mirrorless cameras in 2018. I hope he is correct.
    Robert M. Poston: D4, D810, V3, 14-24 F2.8, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, 80-400, 105 macro.
  • HikerHiker Posts: 197Member
    rmp said:

    I see Thom Hogan is predicting 3 new mirrorless cameras in 2018. I hope he is correct.

    I was just on his site. I didn't see that article. I'll have to do more of a search I guess.
  • SearcySearcy Posts: 703Member

    Searcy ..is the sony AR7 ii missing something you need at about $2000 ?

    The AR7ii has only one card slot and the battery isn't something I think I can work with.
  • HikerHiker Posts: 197Member
    Searcy said:

    Searcy ..is the sony AR7 ii missing something you need at about $2000 ?

    The AR7ii has only one card slot and the battery isn't something I think I can work with.
    A good friend of mine has an A7Rii. He loves it. He does however have a battery grip and extra batteries. I have seen his shots HAND HELD of fireworks. That to me is simply amazing. I can only imagine the new Sony 7 series is just as good with hand held shots.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,607Member
    Hiker, why do you think the Sony is so good hand held with fireworks? I cannot think of a difference amount the current full frame options that would really matter for that. And if there was such a difference, it would be due to a feature that Sony selected for their camera that just happens to be mirrorless, not some inherent advantage of mirrorless VS DSLRs.

    In the real world, technique and composition are almost always the real determinants of what makes a shot amazing. If there is a gear aspect that is important, it is usually lens related and Nikon and Canon with their extensive selection of lenses win here. The only sensor factor that is important is and advantage to Nikon and Sony equally. But sensors are least likely to be the important factor.

    If you truly believe what your statement suggests you believe, I fear that you may be in for a disappointment when you switch.

    Not saying that mirrorless does not have benefits that DSLRs do not - but the ability to take great pictures or even better pictures is not one of them.
  • Capt_SpauldingCapt_Spaulding Posts: 619Member
    Hiker said:

    Searcy said:

    Well, I speak strictly from a personal and selfish position. I I have a d7200 and four Nikon lenses. An 18-200VRDX. A 35mmDX 1.8. A 50mm FX 1.8 and a AF-S 24-70 2.8 ED VR. So as you can see I don't have a lot of gear and I'm far from a cutting edge sort of guy. But I feel it's time for me to go to a full fame camera. I was thinking of a d850 but after spending some time with a Sony A7III I'm thinking of switching. The new A7III has solved some of the issues I had with other Sony mirrorless cameras. It has a respectable battery life, two SD slots and better controls on the body. When it comes to video which I do need sometimes there is no comparison. The Sony wins. The EVF and the auto focus are the main selling points for me. The EyeAF is cool for what I do too.

    So IF I were going to switch it seems like now wold be the time as I don't have a lot of Nikon glass to worry about and the price point of the A7III takes a lot of the sting out of switching.

    I'm not 100% decided yet but I'm about 80% sure I will be buying a Sony A7III before the end of the year.

    Fro Knows has a comparison of the Nikon D750, Canon 6D Mii and the new Sony A7iii. Actually made me laugh! Unfair comparison? He admits it since the D750 is over 3 years old now. I'm waiting for Xmas to see what Sony offers if anything. And wondering what Nikon will release in a mirrorless camera. And like I've stated before I have one older Nikon 70-300. That's it for Nikon glass. Everything else is 3rd party. And to me? Even if Nikon does release a FX mirrorless. I'm guessing my FX glass I use on my 7200 will be unusable.
    If/when you decide to liquidate your Nikon kit, let me know. I may be interested in picking up another body. Good luck.
  • HikerHiker Posts: 197Member

    Hiker, why do you think the Sony is so good hand held with fireworks? I cannot think of a difference amount the current full frame options that would really matter for that. And if there was such a difference, it would be due to a feature that Sony selected for their camera that just happens to be mirrorless, not some inherent advantage of mirrorless VS DSLRs.



    In the real world, technique and composition are almost always the real determinants of what makes a shot amazing. If there is a gear aspect that is important, it is usually lens related and Nikon and Canon with their extensive selection of lenses win here. The only sensor factor that is important is and advantage to Nikon and Sony equally. But sensors are least likely to be the important factor.



    If you truly believe what your statement suggests you believe, I fear that you may be in for a disappointment when you switch.



    Not saying that mirrorless does not have benefits that DSLRs do not - but the ability to take great pictures or even better pictures is not one of them.

    I said my friend was able to take hand held firework shots with his Sony A7Rii. And they were very very good. He's just a beginner. Some of his shots are not that great. I was just giving an example of his cameras capabilities. He's learning technique. I was also just stating that what Searcy was concerned about. Battery life and one card slot. But letting him know from someone that owns the A7Rii. My friend took some amazing shots of the Lunar Eclipse with the Sony 70-200 f2.8, also hand held. I shot the moon with my D7200 and Nikon 70-300mm many times. ONE shot, ONE came out of the many I had taken hand held.

    What I believe here is that Sony is offering me and others looking to upgrade to an FX camera an option. Yes the pros have put up fantastic photos. Will I get the same results? Maybe, but who knows. Unless something comes up with the Sony A7iii that is just horribly wrong, that is the route I am going. Nikon has not done anything that is affordable to me. The D750 was almost an option. But the issues with it convinced me not to go that route. It's over 3 years old now. What is Nikon waiting for? Why all the secrecy regarding a new release? They are getting their butts kicked by Sony right now imho. When you have just about every single reviewer saying positive things about the A7iii that's a good thing I imagine. Yeah, sales are one thing of the D850 and the lack of product (the A7iii has the same problem). Tell us what they have planned so we can stop wondering what their "collective heads of knuckle" are doing. If Nikon was worried about what Sony was doing they would do exactly that. Why should I wait until Sept. or Oct. for an announcement when the obvious is staring right at me now??!! Tell the people what is on the drawing board. Nikon loyalist will stick with Nikon if there is no good reason to switch if Nikon would just say SOMETHING! Have you read the rumors page? Good god it's annoying!!! Not yelling at you, just making a statement! :)
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 2,319Member
    Maybe it's better with fireworks because of better performance at higher ISO?
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,450Moderator
    That all sounds like Chinese whispers to me. Good fireworks shots need long shutter speeds. Long shutter speeds and hand holding do not give good pix unless one is trying ICM shots.
    Always learning.
  • HikerHiker Posts: 197Member
    Sigh....don't know the photo details regarding setting. All I know is that I was pretty impressed with the shots. Chinese whispers?? I'm just reporting what he told me and shared.
  • rmprmp Posts: 572Member
    Robert M. Poston: D4, D810, V3, 14-24 F2.8, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, 80-400, 105 macro.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,607Member
    Hiker said:

    I said my friend was able to take hand held firework shots with his Sony A7Rii. And they were very very good. He's just a beginner. Some of his shots are not that great. I was just giving an example of his cameras capabilities. He's learning technique. I was also just stating that what Searcy was concerned about. Battery life and one card slot. But letting him know from someone that owns the A7Rii. My friend took some amazing shots of the Lunar Eclipse with the Sony 70-200 f2.8, also hand held. I shot the moon with my D7200 and Nikon 70-300mm many times. ONE shot, ONE came out of the many I had taken hand held.

    What I believe here is that Sony is offering me and others looking to upgrade to an FX camera an option. Yes the pros have put up fantastic photos. Will I get the same results? Maybe, but who knows. Unless something comes up with the Sony A7iii that is just horribly wrong, that is the route I am going. Nikon has not done anything that is affordable to me. The D750 was almost an option. But the issues with it convinced me not to go that route. It's over 3 years old now. What is Nikon waiting for? Why all the secrecy regarding a new release? They are getting their butts kicked by Sony right now imho. When you have just about every single reviewer saying positive things about the A7iii that's a good thing I imagine. Yeah, sales are one thing of the D850 and the lack of product (the A7iii has the same problem). Tell us what they have planned so we can stop wondering what their "collective heads of knuckle" are doing. If Nikon was worried about what Sony was doing they would do exactly that. Why should I wait until Sept. or Oct. for an announcement when the obvious is staring right at me now??!! Tell the people what is on the drawing board. Nikon loyalist will stick with Nikon if there is no good reason to switch if Nikon would just say SOMETHING! Have you read the rumors page? Good god it's annoying!!! Not yelling at you, just making a statement! :)
    Yes, that is annoying, but Nikon has never released a roadmap and likely never will. I think that Nikon is waiting for a few reasons. One, they probably only figured out which of several strategies to pursue a few months ago. Second, they don't want to give competitors a leg up (especially Canon). Three, they want the earlier adopters to make the mistakes, especially the ones impossible to undo, and spend all the money figuring out the market.

    Regarding your point, "I was just giving an example of the cameras capabilities.", you seem to be suggesting that your friend's Sony is doing something that a DSLR cannot do. Even if there is something specific about the cameras capabilities that a DSLR cannot do, most of these "advantages" merely exist either because Canon and Nikon have not chosen that feature or are behind Sony in an ephemeral way. An example is Sony's eye detect. Most people don't realize that the Nikon D500 and D850 have good face detect and it usually finds the eye. With 3D, if you select the eye initially, it does an excellent job of staying locked on. So perhaps Sony has an advantage on this particular feature, but it is not the advantage that Sony would have you believe.

    Now two things that a mirrorless can do that a DSLR cannot (or seems to cannot) have not even made it into a mirrorless camera. One is a square sensor - say 36mm by 36mm on FX. With the current 3:2 aspect ratio, a third of the lenses' image circle is wasted. It amazes me that Sony or Fuji have not clued into that. The second is focus points across the frame, though I remain uncertain that this is really something a DSLR cannot do.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,607Member
    mhedges said:

    Maybe it's better with fireworks because of better performance at higher ISO?

    I doubt that the high ISO performance of Sony and Nikon full frame sensors is distinguishable in anything other than a test environment. Even the big advantage of Nikon's current sensor on the D850, the superior dynamic range at ISO 64, would rarely be obvious.
  • tc88tc88 Posts: 537Member
    There may be many differences between mirrorless and DSLR. But absolute picture quality is not one of those right now. Picture quality is a function of sensors and lens only.
  • HikerHiker Posts: 197Member
    Has anyone with a DSLR taken a fireworks pic hand held without a tripod or support? Just curious.
  • HikerHiker Posts: 197Member

    Hiker said:

    I said my friend was able to take hand held firework shots with his Sony A7Rii. And they were very very good. He's just a beginner. Some of his shots are not that great. I was just giving an example of his cameras capabilities. He's learning technique. I was also just stating that what Searcy was concerned about. Battery life and one card slot. But letting him know from someone that owns the A7Rii. My friend took some amazing shots of the Lunar Eclipse with the Sony 70-200 f2.8, also hand held. I shot the moon with my D7200 and Nikon 70-300mm many times. ONE shot, ONE came out of the many I had taken hand held.

    What I believe here is that Sony is offering me and others looking to upgrade to an FX camera an option. Yes the pros have put up fantastic photos. Will I get the same results? Maybe, but who knows. Unless something comes up with the Sony A7iii that is just horribly wrong, that is the route I am going. Nikon has not done anything that is affordable to me. The D750 was almost an option. But the issues with it convinced me not to go that route. It's over 3 years old now. What is Nikon waiting for? Why all the secrecy regarding a new release? They are getting their butts kicked by Sony right now imho. When you have just about every single reviewer saying positive things about the A7iii that's a good thing I imagine. Yeah, sales are one thing of the D850 and the lack of product (the A7iii has the same problem). Tell us what they have planned so we can stop wondering what their "collective heads of knuckle" are doing. If Nikon was worried about what Sony was doing they would do exactly that. Why should I wait until Sept. or Oct. for an announcement when the obvious is staring right at me now??!! Tell the people what is on the drawing board. Nikon loyalist will stick with Nikon if there is no good reason to switch if Nikon would just say SOMETHING! Have you read the rumors page? Good god it's annoying!!! Not yelling at you, just making a statement! :)
    Yes, that is annoying, but Nikon has never released a roadmap and likely never will. I think that Nikon is waiting for a few reasons. One, they probably only figured out which of several strategies to pursue a few months ago. Second, they don't want to give competitors a leg up (especially Canon). Three, they want the earlier adopters to make the mistakes, especially the ones impossible to undo, and spend all the money figuring out the market.

    Regarding your point, "I was just giving an example of the cameras capabilities.", you seem to be suggesting that your friend's Sony is doing something that a DSLR cannot do. Even if there is something specific about the cameras capabilities that a DSLR cannot do, most of these "advantages" merely exist either because Canon and Nikon have not chosen that feature or are behind Sony in an ephemeral way. An example is Sony's eye detect. Most people don't realize that the Nikon D500 and D850 have good face detect and it usually finds the eye. With 3D, if you select the eye initially, it does an excellent job of staying locked on. So perhaps Sony has an advantage on this particular feature, but it is not the advantage that Sony would have you believe.

    Now two things that a mirrorless can do that a DSLR cannot (or seems to cannot) have not even made it into a mirrorless camera. One is a square sensor - say 36mm by 36mm on FX. With the current 3:2 aspect ratio, a third of the lenses' image circle is wasted. It amazes me that Sony or Fuji have not clued into that. The second is focus points across the frame, though I remain uncertain that this is really something a DSLR cannot do.
    One example. Price. Second example, performance. And here's 3, features based all on price. That is the current situation. Not trying to be sarcastic. And not saying the A7iii is perfect. It's not. But. Right now? Nothing compares. What will Nikon do??
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,607Member
    Well, if I was worried about price, I would buy a D750 which on the B&H website is $1,796 compared to the A7 III which is $200 more and does not give me access to Nikon lenses unless I use an adapter. The lenses I use will mean more for image quality than any small image improvements that Sony (or Nikon) has made since the D750 came out 3 years ago - and the image quality difference over 3 years IS small. Moore's law is not what it used to be.

    And since I am patient (I resisted the urge to update my D800 to a D810 which was a significant upgrade and waited for the D850) I would probably just wait to iterate the D750 unless what I am using now is broken.

    But that is just my two bits. Let us know how the change goes.

    But one other thing, I looked at the four lenses that you mentioned in your earlier post. If I was in your position, I would keep the D7200 and upgrade your lenses. To what? That depends on your subjects. But the money that you are going to spend for a new camera will produce a much more significant improvement if you spend it on lenses. I would say that whatever, camera you end up with, don't upgrade it again until you have spent triple the camera purchase price on lenses - my rough rule of thumb. And whatever you do, don't change mounts again. Whatever gain you think you can gain with another company's photon detector will be neutralized by the next generation of your current photon detector. If you buy good lenses, however, they will serve you well for a very long time.

    Yes, it is a photon detector that depends on the lenses more than anything for the quality. You can improve on ergonomics and improve hit rates, but they won't impact the quality of your images like lenses will.

    I added two more bits. Sorry.......
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 2,326Member
    edited April 2018
    Fireworks 20 sec + at 200 iso f 5.6 on a tripod ....20 sec hand held I think not .
    I got the settings written on the back of the remote I use with the D810....
    Post edited by Pistnbroke on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,450Moderator
    Hiker said:

    Has anyone with a DSLR taken a fireworks pic hand held without a tripod or support? Just curious.

    I have taken (and sold all) many fireworks shots and if you understand the essence of the task, there is no perfect shutter speed. the aperture depends on how dark it is, how much background you want to include/exclude, and the shutter speed depends on the amount of fireworks you want to get in that show i.e. enough, but not too many.

    Of course a tripod is necessary, and I use bulb mode with a cable release and pay attention to the show to decide when to close the shutter.

    @WestEndFoto said: "Regarding your point, "I was just giving an example of the cameras capabilities.", you seem to be suggesting that your friend's Sony is doing something that a DSLR cannot do. Even if there is something specific about the cameras capabilities that a DSLR cannot do, most of these "advantages" merely exist either because Canon and Nikon have not chosen that feature or are behind Sony in an ephemeral way."

    Or the skill of the photographer in knowing what his camera can do and getting the best from it of course.
    Always learning.
  • rmprmp Posts: 572Member
    Just saying you sold all of your xxx (fireworks images) is a bid deal in my book. I can not imaging making a living as a photographer in todays world. Way to go spraynpray!!!
    Robert M. Poston: D4, D810, V3, 14-24 F2.8, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, 80-400, 105 macro.
  • Capt_SpauldingCapt_Spaulding Posts: 619Member
    edited April 2018
    Hiker said:

    Has anyone with a DSLR taken a fireworks pic hand held without a tripod or support? Just curious.

    edit: It's almost certainly not as good as S&Ps fireworks images and I haven't sold any of these. But it was a DSLR (D7200) and it was handheld.

    Jer's Graduation-79

    But 1) I'm not sure what this tells you nor 2) how mirrorless would make this better. [shrug]
    Post edited by Capt_Spaulding on
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,607Member



    Or the skill of the photographer in knowing what his camera can do and getting the best from it of course.

    Oh yes. I often think of that as a given, but I am amazed how often it must be spelled out.

    When I tell people about my barbecue, they often say, "Wow! You must be a great cook." NOT!!!!!! And you only think it is an expensive barbecue until you go to a store that sells the truly high end stuff.
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