NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

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  • NSXTypeRNSXTypeR Posts: 2,123Member
    I think Nikon is trying to find the best balance between image quality, portability and size.

    https://photorumors.com/2018/02/23/fact-high-end-mirrorless-cameras-keep-getting-bigger/

    I haven't had time to read much of the earlier posts, but it's a very big concern. For me, if I'm going to be juggling lenses, downsizing to Micro 4/3 isn't going to be attractive to me, even if I'm going to have much more portable lenses because it's still a big investment and I'll still have to swap lenses, even if they are tiny lenses. I'd rather Nikon make something like a RX100... oh wait, that was canceled.

    Darn it Nikon why can't you just make the products we want.
    Nikon D7000/ Nikon D40/ Nikon FM2/ 18-135 AF-S/ 35mm 1.8 AF-S/ 105mm Macro AF-S/ 50mm 1.2 AI-S
  • SamkoSamko Posts: 101Member
    It would be nice with 3 new bodys and a clear change of production and of focus by nikon . All mirrorless.

    1. D6 to be full body mirrorless with battery grip (Dx field )

    2. A full frame mirrorless without the grip but still “big” ( d8xx field )

    3. A dx mirrorless without grip but still “big” ( D500 field )

    A good adapter Fmount with screw AF for 50$.
    Battery life of 1000 photos minimum.

    The most important, that it is a good simpel pure photo tool. I hope they dont fill it with all kind of wifi bluetooth editing sharing software.
  • rmprmp Posts: 541Member
    I'm with Thom Hogan -- much better work flow!!!!! I shoot raw plus jpg-fine. If the jpg is "good enough" being able to send it directly to the web without too many settings and without burning out batteries will be a huge benefit -- to me. Of course this could be implemented in DSLRs as well as mirror-less cameras, but I feel it should be a MUST have for mirror-less cameras.
    Robert M. Poston: D4, D810, V3, 14-24 F2.8, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, 80-400, 105 macro.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    Samko said:

    It
    A good adapter Fmount with screw AF for 50$.

    No chance of getting all that at that price, the F-mount to Nikon 1 adaptor that only supported AF-I and AF-S lenses was $250 IIRC.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,430Member
    I don’t think a screw drive adapter would even be feasible, given that the mount should have a larger diameter. It would be some kind of Rube Goldberg like contraption.

    To quote Kylo Ren - Nikon needs to let the past die. At least to a certain extent. Spend effort on moving forward instead of trying to accommodate all of their legacy products.
  • SamkoSamko Posts: 101Member
    Nikon need to take spme kind of a hit before they can move farward. In this case let it be economical hit by offering cheap adapter for old glass, in that sense no nikon shooter would switch brand.
    Canon took the hit long time ago
  • HankBHankB Posts: 222Member
    Quite a few decades ago when Nikon added auto exposure, they had a service to modify old lenses (something to do with indexing the max lens aperture to the camera). That service was super cheap, possibly below cost(?)

    There is the prescient for backward compatibility without soaking the loyal customers—"Enlightened Self-interest". In other words, long term good business sense.
  • HikerHiker Posts: 197Member
    I have delivered in the past 2 weeks, 3 A7Riii's to customers and a A9. A coworker, has had traces from B & H from worried customers on very expensive items. Don't know for sure what they buy, and can only guess. One I delivered, the lady was like a kid in a candy store. The husband inherited the A7Rii...lol. A friend has the A7Rii and LOVES it. The only thing I see as a negative with Sony at this moment is the lens prices. Jared (Fro Knows) did a review of the Sony A7Riii in my neck of the woods in Sedona if anyone wants to check it out. Right now I'm to invested with my Nikon/Sigma/Tamron setup.

    Jeff
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,430Member
    Samko said:

    Nikon need to take spme kind of a hit before they can move farward. In this case let it be economical hit by offering cheap adapter for old glass, in that sense no nikon shooter would switch brand.

    Canon took the hit long time ago

    Didn't Canon obsolete all their MF lenses when their AF came out?

    Personally I would say ship it with an adapter that allows full functionality with motorized AF lenses, and MF on screw drive lenses. That would be good enough for me.
  • SamkoSamko Posts: 101Member
    @mhedges .
    Yes, and I belive a lot of ppl went away from canon in the first period. It was a big risk. Nikon can minimize that risk by offering a adapter cheap or free with a new mirrorless body. That way we can use our lenses until all of them are replaced with the new mount.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,195Member
    Samko said:

    @mhedges .

    That way we can use our lenses until all of them are replaced with the new mount.

    Which is the nightmare that keeps Nikon up at night. If people believe that what you are implying is true, people may find it easier to move to Canon or Sony.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,430Member
    It's a fine line. If you obsolete everything then you lose your base. If you make everything 100% compatible you lose lens sales.
  • vtc2002vtc2002 Posts: 364Member
    mhedges said:

    It's a fine line. If you obsolete everything then you lose your base. If you make everything 100% compatible you lose lens sales.

    I'm not sure Nikon would lose it base. If you abandon Nikon because your F mounts lens does not work on their mirrorless camera and move to a new brand the costs will be basically the same as if you stay with Nikon and buy the new lens mount. I would rather Nikon deliver a killer mirrorless camera than deliver a crippled camera that allows me to use my F mount lens. The option of making everything 100% compatible is a very high risk strategy for Nikon, as they are trying to survive off of the past rather than creating a path for the future.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,195Member
    Yes, but if Nikon reduces innovation and development on the f=mount, I will punish Nikon for impacting my investment by moving to Canon or somebody else other than Nikon.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,238Moderator
    vtc2002 said:

    mhedges said:

    It's a fine line. If you obsolete everything then you lose your base. If you make everything 100% compatible you lose lens sales.

    I'm not sure Nikon would lose it base. If you abandon Nikon because your F mounts lens does not work on their mirrorless camera and move to a new brand the costs will be basically the same as if you stay with Nikon and buy the new lens mount. I would rather Nikon deliver a killer mirrorless camera than deliver a crippled camera that allows me to use my F mount lens. The option of making everything 100% compatible is a very high risk strategy for Nikon, as they are trying to survive off of the past rather than creating a path for the future.
    I think you may be in a minority there Vic.
    Always learning.
  • vtc2002vtc2002 Posts: 364Member

    Yes, but if Nikon reduces innovation and development on the f=mount, I will punish Nikon for impacting my investment by moving to Canon or somebody else other than Nikon.

    What investment? Very little camera equipment goes up in value. If Nikon goes under your investment will be worth a fraction of what you paid for it. I recently sold most of my older lens (several AI-S, D and most of my G series). The best I could get was 60% of what they are selling for new. If the lens could not be purchased new the best I could get was considerably less than what I paid for it.
    I don't see how you could punish Nikon by moving to Canon. They have already have your money for the equipment you have purchased. They will have no clue that you have moved to Canon. You are only punishing yourself by moving to a inferior (at least at this time) system and the expense of selling your Nikon equipment and purchasing new. If they have a great mirrorless camera they will gain a new user to replace you.

    If Nikon develops a adapter for their mirrorless camera it will be for their E series lens, at least initially and possibly the G series at some point. I am heavily invested in the E series. I believe it will take most companies (including Nikon) to develop a mirrorless camera that will be able to produce tilt and shift, macro, telephoto and super telephoto lens and they will continue to develop the DSLR cameras until the mirrorless technology catches up.

    @spraynpray You are right. I am not sure why though. I went with Nikon initially because had the best cameras and lens and I use Nikon today because they have the best camera and lens. I do not see a better option for a FF camera to replace the D850. I do not think Nikon will abandon their DSLR line. I think there maybe a lull in the DSLR line while they are working on the mirriorless line. I see a similarity to the way they came out with the D500. A lot of people left because of the delay in releasing a replacement for the D300. A lot of those people came back and Nikon sold a lot to new customers.
  • HankBHankB Posts: 222Member
    edited March 2018
    If the adapter is nothing more than an extension tube with appropriate fittings at each end, AND if Nikon has the LONG TERM BUSINESS SENSE to price these transitional adapters at or below cost, a Nikon mirrorless body will be very convenient to use with all our “old” AF-S lenses.

    Two ways to use F mount lenses with a new Nikon mirrorless full frame / APS-C system
    1. Simplest example — mirrorless body with only F mount lenses:   Just leave a single adapter on the camera and swap lenses as usual [this is a no-brainer]
    2. When carrying a mix of F mount and mirrorless mount lenses:    Leave a separate adapter on each F lens you are carrying [remember Nikon must sell them at or below cost] and swap the  lens + adapter assembly  as if it were a new mirrorless lens unit.
    Although screw drive AF lenses would become manual focus, they would be much easier and faster to focus with an EVF than on a contemporary OVF.
    Post edited by HankB on
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member

    Yes, but if Nikon reduces innovation and development on the f=mount, I will punish Nikon for impacting my investment by moving to Canon or somebody else other than Nikon.

    Lenses and cameras have never been, or ever be an investment, just as cars, boats, and lamenent floor aren’t (expect in very limited cases). Unless you mean investment in terms of usability over time, but even then, times change and alter the usefulness of any item. Almost all large camera companies have changed lens mounts at least once, other than Nikon, Pentax and Leica. Nikon isn’t, and will never be Leica, so they will have to adapt with the times or die.

    A good adapter will preserve the usefulness of F-mount lenses until such a time that newer and better native mount lenses are available. Unless Nikon has been holding off release of the mirror less camera because they were developing a ton of native mount lenses, not having an adaptor that functions at least as well as last generation (2012-2014 model) DSLRs would would insane.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • retreadretread Posts: 554Member
    It seems to me that if a new mount is designed with an F mount adapter in mind it would be possible. New mount larger diameter and closer to sensor would let adapter fit inside just like the new lens and hold F mount lenses farther from sensor. Electrical contacts should not be hard engendering for mechanical connections a bit more challenging but possible.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,430Member
    I agree it should be easy to make an adapter for AF-S or AF-P lenses. I would not expect it to be sold at or below cost, because Nikon, but who knows.

    Like I've probably said too many times already, I would be shocked if they supported screw drive AF. It makes no sense to put a motor etc. in the camera body because you would be making all users pay for a feature that many will not use. Also it would take up space. And businesswise Nikon would want people to move away from these old lenses and buy new ones.
  • SamkoSamko Posts: 101Member
    Adapter plus sensor VR..’mmmmmm
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,238Moderator
    I don't see why there is any negativity towards using F-mount lenses via an adaptor in the short to medium term. One of the plus points about no mirror is that you get better IQ with the lens closer to the sensor so any self-respecting gear-head will trip over themselves to sell the old lens and replace with new as and when they become available. Simples.
    Always learning.
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 891Member
    Nikon made an F-mount adapter for Nikon 1 and I think it is close to obvious that they will make one if they come out with a new full frame mount. Maybe they'll even make different ones, one that supports E lenses and one for older lenses.

    If Nikon comes out with a new mount I really hope they make it open to third party lenses. I think it may be best business wise for both Nikon and me.

    I think it would be cool if the new mount supported slightly larger sensors and that we would see cameras similar to Hasselblad X1D. It would also work nicely with F mount lenses since it gives you more room to crop for landscape or portrait in post. But my guess is that the cameras will be full frame Sony style.

    I have a feeling that the rumored 400-600 mm pf lenses will be for the new mount.

    Just some thoughts and guesses...
  • vtc2002vtc2002 Posts: 364Member
    If you look at Fuji Medium Format Mirrorless Cameras they have designed lens for a 100mp camera. Currently the GFXs (small) is 50mp but the plan to release a GFX medium (70+ mp) and GFX large (100mp). This is the kind of strategy Nikon needs to apply to their mirrorless camera. I hope this is why they patented the z mount and that they will have a set of lens that will allow new cameras with higher MP to use.

    Look where we are now with the F mount Nikon has some lens that are stellar on the D850 and many that fall short. I tend to agree with Thom Hogan on his lens recommendation for the D850 in that if you are investing in a 45mp camera why would you place a lens on it that is not going to maximize the resolution of the sensor. (I struggle with his recommendations in that a good/great photo is determined by more characteristics than technical merits but from a technical point of view his recommendation are valid.) If you want to get the best results out of the D850 some of your old lens will need to be updated. Nikon has stated that their mirrorless camera will be high end cameras, why compromise the quality of the camera by placing a inferior lens on it. I know this will draw some criticism and comments. I struggle with it too.

    As @snakebunk said just some thoughts and guesses...
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,195Member
    OK, call it a prepaid expense if you don’t like “investment”. I will even conceed that I am improving compliance with GAAP if I make that concession. It still has a market vale that even at 60% is over $30k. I started buying heavily in Nikon in 2012 because I was confident that if I bought a lens, that they would continue to iterate cameras that could use the lens and that such iterations would not produce a decline in performance.

    So as an example, if Nikon replaces Native f- mount DSLRs with something that requires an adapter and the performance of my, say 400mm 2.8E declines as a result, then my next purchase will not be Nikon regardless of how well it performs.

    It is really very simple:

    Fool me once, shame on you.

    Fool me twice, shame on me.
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