Z6 ii and Z7 ii

mhedges

The focus did get better via firmware (remember at launch there was no eye AF at all) but it's not at the level of the newest mirrorless cameras (or even A7III) as far as the eye detect etc.

rmp

I agree photobunny. S lenses are great. Focus, for me, is fine. Faster focus is needed for high speed work.

mhedges

Agree the AF is currently "fine". It does well at moderately fast action for me, as demonstrated by all the kids soccer pics I spam the PAD thread with. And after the V3 firmware dropped it even became slightly impressive at times - I was really surprised how well it did when I shot a kids play/musical in late winter shortly before everything was locked down. But it clearly lags behind Sony and Canon, and I think they need to catch up with the S models to stay competitive, even if real-world it won't make a ton of difference to most shooters.

Pistnbroke

Well I would like to see a DX 500mm f4 or 5.6 because it would be much lighter than using an FX ..the amount of cropping you need for birds would make this very practical on a D500 or D850

spraynpray

Well if those action shots are with a mirrorless, they must be getting better. Are you up to date @Pistnbroke ?

mhedges

spraynpray said:

Well if those action shots are with a mirrorless, they must be getting better. Are you up to date @Pistnbroke ?

They are all from Z6. That's my only ILC - I sold my D7200 last year.

To be fair I always thought the Z6 action AF for my useage was decent when using Dynamic area AF, and especially coupled with my 70-200 2.8 VRII lens. I think it has improved somewhat but the difference isn't all that noticeable. The improvements in face/eye detect AF and subject tracking have been much more significant, although as stated before they are still behind Sony and Canon.

photobunny

mhedges said:

spraynpray said:

Well if those action shots are with a mirrorless, they must be getting better. Are you up to date @Pistnbroke ?

They are all from Z6. That's my only ILC - I sold my D7200 last year.

To be fair I always thought the Z6 action AF for my useage was decent when using Dynamic area AF, and especially coupled with my 70-200 2.8 VRII lens. I think it has improved somewhat but the difference isn't all that noticeable. The improvements in face/eye detect AF and subject tracking have been much more significant, although as stated before they are still behind Sony and Canon.

At least they are as accurate as Canon and Sony now, just slower to lock and not able to pick up more than cats and dogs. But Canon kinda threw everyone off there with its animal eye AF able to pick up flipping humming birds and darting rabbits. Canon's CPU is way ahead just now.

Pistnbroke

don't have to look far to keep up to date .
See post above.
just slower to lock and not able to pick up more than cats and dogs.

That says it all.
BUT looking at the prices of the lenses released today £2000 + they can get lost.

mhedges

Just bear in mind that is talking about the eye af functions. It's not to say they can't be used for other animals in more DSLR like AF modes.

As far as lens prices - that's where everyone is at these days. The 50 1.2 actually came in under most folks estimates and for once is cheaper than the Canon equivalent.

photobunny

mhedges said:

As far as lens prices - that's where everyone is at these days. The 50 1.2 actually came in under most folks estimates and for once is cheaper than the Canon equivalent.

Aye the Nikon lenses are all cheeper than the RF equivalents. And the build and IQ isn't lost for the cheeper costs.

PB_PM

Pistnbroke said:

BUT looking at the prices of the lenses released today £2000 + they can get lost.

It’s the trend, and the camera makers have to make up for the rapid drops in sales somehow, because before anyone else they have to appease shareholders. Cameras are going from being a general consumer product to a luxury item, like it or not. It’s really not all that different from when digital cameras first hit the market, it was a small market and the prices were high. What we experienced between 2006-2014 was an anomaly, not the norm in the industry.

mhedges

That, but also the lenses announced yesterday are specialty pro lenses and they have never been cheap. The F mount 14-24 2.8 came out over a decade ago and the inflation adjusted price was about the same as the Z. Nikon of course has never had an AF 50 1.2 before, the Canon DSLR lens is 1300 but isn't considered to be all that great when shot wide open from what I've heard.

richfisher

Dual CFExpress slots and I'll buy it without a question

WestEndFoto

richfisher said:

Dual CFExpress slots and I'll buy it without a question

Yes, I would prefer dual CF Express slots. I find it annoying when Nikon does not make the slots the same.

Pistnbroke

Z7s and Z6s specs anounced on this site ..

The Bad,
Same old 45MP sensor..lets hope thats wrong. Might as well buy a grey D850
SD + CF ( though I like the SD)
Costs even more.
The Good
Dual Expeed so the focus might be better
Vertical grip old style with buttons
upgraded viewfinder
AVAILABLE BEFORE CHRISTMAS.

photobunny

WestEndFoto said:

richfisher said:

Dual CFExpress slots and I'll buy it without a question

Yes, I would prefer dual CF Express slots. I find it annoying when Nikon does not make the slots the same.

Canon do the same thing. It seems to be a segmentation thing, dual CFE is probably only for the pro body(D6).

photobunny

Pistnbroke said:

Z7s and Z6s specs anounced on this site ..

The Bad,
Same old 45MP sensor..lets hope thats wrong. Might as well but a grey D850

I don't thing I agree this is bad. The sensors on the Z6 and Z7 are still competitive with the R5 and R6, these cameras really just need processing power. The D850 is also still one of the best cameras out there in IQ. Certainly to me everything rumoured about the S versions is what I was hoping, including using the same sensors.

Pistnbroke

Well if the dual Expeed improves the focus to D850 levels then 60 MP would be good for the birds in terms of pixels on image. Perhaps more pixels is for Z8 or 9 but they dont need Z9 until the 2024 (?) olympics

photobunny

45MP is enough, the competitor is 45MP and 20MP. Z6s and Z7s should be just that, new revisions that 'fix' these lines. There are plenty of numbers left for 60MP and more(Canon are rumoured to be doing a 80/90MP R5 so 60MP may no longer be the benchmark soon). We also need the D6 equivalent and that'll likely be 20 odd MP, though I would wish for the Z6 sensor in that, I have been really impressed with the images out of the Z6 when paired with any S lens or the PF 500mm.

To me, all the Z6s and Z7s need to do is show Nikon have learned from rev a like Canon did and that they can put out something competitive. It doesn't need to have bird eye AF yet, just enough speed that that AF it does have is quicker and give it a proper grip so my pinky isn't sitting on the battery door.

mhedges

I would prefer dual CFexpress too but I think that's unlikely. Both for size reasons and for the fact that they seem to be trying to silence the complainers with these refreshes and one of the more common complaints was the lack of SD compatibility.

WestEndFoto

mhedges said:

I would prefer dual CFexpress too but I think that's unlikely. Both for size reasons and for the fact that they seem to be trying to silence the complainers with these refreshes and one of the more common complaints was the lack of SD compatibility.

If that is the case, you may see dual CF Express on the third generation.

mhedges

WestEndFoto said:

mhedges said:

I would prefer dual CFexpress too but I think that's unlikely. Both for size reasons and for the fact that they seem to be trying to silence the complainers with these refreshes and one of the more common complaints was the lack of SD compatibility.

If that is the case, you may see dual CF Express on the third generation.

Maybe but I also kind of think it will be reserved for the flagship models.

tc88

WestEndFoto said:

If that is the case, you may see dual CF Express on the third generation.

There are a lot of people who are not willing to jump on the CFExpress bandwagon yet. Nikon found that out the hard way last time. Unless CFE becomes main stream which may never happen, the best you can hope for is dual versions like on D5.

photobunny said:

the competitor is 45MP and 20MP.

I thought A7r4 is 60 and that was released a year ago. But I suppose that's the target for Z8.

Pistnbroke said:

Costs even more.
AVAILABLE BEFORE CHRISTMAS.

I think it probably means costing more than the current price of Z6/Z7. I'm not sure it will be more expensive than the launch price of Z6/Z7. But given the pricing trend, we never know.

Regarding availability, I thought it's announcement before end of year. These days, availability is usually a quarter later if not longer. The camera makers seem to want to figure out the demand through pre-order first before setting production targets.

WestEndFoto

tc88 said:

WestEndFoto said:

If that is the case, you may see dual CF Express on the third generation.

There are a lot of people who are not willing to jump on the CFExpress bandwagon yet. Nikon found that out the hard way last time. Unless CFE becomes main stream which may never happen, the best you can hope for is dual versions like on D5.

photobunny said:

the competitor is 45MP and 20MP.

I thought A7r4 is 60 and that was released a year ago. But I suppose that's the target for Z8.

Pistnbroke said:

Costs even more.
AVAILABLE BEFORE CHRISTMAS.

I think it probably means costing more than the current price of Z6/Z7. I'm not sure it will be more expensive than the launch price of Z6/Z7. But given the pricing trend, we never know.

Regarding availability, I thought it's announcement before end of year. These days, availability is usually a quarter later if not longer. The camera makers seem to want to figure out the demand through pre-order first before setting production targets.

Something will become mainstream and SD is not that something. Today the best candidate for that something is CF Express. If that something is something else, it will have most of the cons of CF Express with all the same complaints. A solution with the same capabilities as CF Express (call it CFExpress class) is essential if cameras are going to handle the demands of solutions that require faster sensor read times and faster processors.

For this reason, Nikon is right to be riding the CF Express horse it is riding. I find it annoying that my D850 is being crippled by the SD card and am looking forward to the end of having to deal with that.

If you have a better solution, what is it? In my view, if Nikon stays with SD, a good portion of its users will defect to whoever moves off the SD horse.

This is how I look at it. In my view, a photographic system by capital cost is 10% camera, 10% tripods (not singular - I have 5 at a cost of about $13,000), 20% accessories (cards, bags, batteries, filters etc.) and 60% lenses. The camera is the most ephemeral of these and I regard them as mere "photon detectors" though as others have pointed out, this is not fair of me to say - but I like to say it to drive home the point.

Now everybody will have their own calculus. For some it will be 80% camera and 20% lens. But if you can't afford something that considers the cost of the photographic system, most often you need to re-evaluate how much you are spending on the camera.

mhedges

My guess is they will be a little more expensive, at least for Z6s. I'll say $2300 for it and $3400 for Z7s. Canon opened the door to higher prices and I think everyone else will follow suit.

I'd be very surprised if the A74 came in at 2000 given the A7C at 1800.