Z6 ii and Z7 ii

photobunny

It's do or die time for Nikon. I look forward nervously to seeing the Z6s and Z7s, they don't have to match the R5's AF, just show that Nikon has promise and that'll carry over to the next gen bodies in a four years time.

WestEndFoto

photobunny said:

It's do or die time for Nikon. I look forward nervously to seeing the Z6s and Z7s, they don't have to match the R5's AF, just show that Nikon has promise and that'll carry over to the next gen bodies in a four years time.

I think that they have already shown that they have promise. Yet I do believe that this is a really important moment for them. The Z7s sounds like it might fit one of my use cases - possibly two.

photobunny

WestEndFoto said:

photobunny said:

It's do or die time for Nikon. I look forward nervously to seeing the Z6s and Z7s, they don't have to match the R5's AF, just show that Nikon has promise and that'll carry over to the next gen bodies in a four years time.

I think that they have already shown that they have promise. Yet I do believe that this is a really important moment for them. The Z7s sounds like it might fit one of my use cases - possibly two.

I love my Z6 and it was great with the 500mm f/5.6 PF. But the Z7 wasn't even on my radar because it was too slow. I only came into the Z6 on firmware 3.0 and my experience has been that it is a great camera especially with my wee 1.8 primes and even with the FTZ with its wart.

But I have seen the R5 in action, I picked up the animal eyes and let the other guy focus on composition way easier that I had. It also focused that wee bit quicker, as did the D500. Now I just need to see from Nikon that they'll push cameras that fit those excellent lenses.

rmp

Wow, am I out of this loop. I had an 850. I have a Z7. I do not pay any attention to the XQD/CF-E/SD considerations. I bought 4 XQD cards and I actually use 2. After a shoot, I download from the cards. Then format and reuse the cards. I have never filled up an XQD card. Granted, I do not shoot motor-sports or any high speed events. My only real consideration for the Z7s is focusing speed.

photobunny

rmp said:

Wow, am I out of this loop. I had an 850. I have a Z7. I do not pay any attention to the XQD/CF-E/SD considerations. I bought 4 XQD cards and I actually use 2. After a shoot, I download from the cards. Then format and reuse the cards. I have never filled up an XQD card. Granted, I do not shoot motor-sports or any high speed events. My only real consideration for the Z7s is focusing speed.

XQD are lovely, CF Express cards mostly just let you unload them quicker to the computer. If it takes you 8 minutes just now, it might take under 2 minutes with a CF Express card. The Z7s for me needs focus speed, QOL focus improvements like eye AF (Almost required for f/1.2 glass), more animals in the eye Af, and 10 real FPS.

That won't put it inline with the Canon R5, but it will be close enough that it is good enough. And we know the Z7 and D850 produce sharper images with the 500mm f/5.6 PF than the R5 does with the RF 100-500 f/7.1.... if Canon had that 500 f/5.6 I probably wouldn't have even remotely have been tempted to try out Nikon.

WestEndFoto

photobunny said:

rmp said:

Wow, am I out of this loop. I had an 850. I have a Z7. I do not pay any attention to the XQD/CF-E/SD considerations. I bought 4 XQD cards and I actually use 2. After a shoot, I download from the cards. Then format and reuse the cards. I have never filled up an XQD card. Granted, I do not shoot motor-sports or any high speed events. My only real consideration for the Z7s is focusing speed.

XQD are lovely, CF Express cards mostly just let you unload them quicker to the computer. If it takes you 8 minutes just now, it might take under 2 minutes with a CF Express card. The Z7s for me needs focus speed, QOL focus improvements like eye AF (Almost required for f/1.2 glass), more animals in the eye Af, and 10 real FPS.

That won't put it inline with the Canon R5, but it will be close enough that it is good enough. And we know the Z7 and D850 produce sharper images with the 500mm f/5.6 PF than the R5 does with the RF 100-500 f/7.1.... if Canon had that 500 f/5.6 I probably wouldn't have even remotely have been tempted to try out Nikon.

I wonder if Nikon's strategy will be to target a little below the R5 with the Z7s and target higher with a Z8/9 - Z8 being like a D6 and a Z9 being like a D6x (remember the D3x?).

Pistnbroke

Quote We'll see what happens in 2030 to 2040,
so nice to be young

photobunny

Pistnbroke said:

Quote We'll see what happens in 2030 to 2040,
so nice to be young

I am in my 30s but my sell by date was supposed to be around 22/23. Still excited to see what new tech, hopefully impressive changes. 7-year-old me would have had his wee mind blown by a iPad or iPhone.

tc88

@WestEndFoto, I don't know what kind of lawyers you have, but I thought gambling is illegal in most places. Now you may not want you sanity, but I have mine. Let me just repeat, I'm not interested in any bets when the payout is only after 10 years. I would think most people will agree that's the correct mentality no matter what the perceived chance of winning. So sorry I skipped reading your terms which likely took quite some time to for you come up. But I would imagine most people skipped too. Anybody read those can raise their hands. Like snakebunk said, proposing bet "is a lousy argument". So let's forget about discussing bets further.

mhedges said:

When it comes to memory cards the thing I'm curious about (which doesn't really pertain to this thread exactly but still) is will cameras ever stop needing them. Either due to built in storage or using some kind of cloud based service.

Well using cell phone as a reference, built-in storage happens on very low end and very high end. So I would imagine most people want the flexibility of expansion slots even if they may not use it. On the very low end, it's cost cutting to the barebone and providing the minimum functionality. I doubt there is a place there for general camera anymore since a barely functioning camera is no use in this cell phone world. Maybe some cameras sold in toy stores for kids, like the disposable cameras before.

On the high end, it depends on how captive the equipment makers can hold its customers. Apple is able to do that. Can the camera makers at some point be able to do that? Basically, will the customers suck it up and pay the premium or will they say, screw it, I would rather not have such a camera, or buy a competitive one with the expansion available.

WestEndFoto

tc88 said:

@WestEndFoto, I don't know what kind of lawyers you have, but I thought gambling is illegal in most places. Now you may not want you sanity, but I have mine. Let me just repeat, I'm not interested in any bets when the payout is only after 10 years. I would think most people will agree that's the correct mentality no matter what the perceived chance of winning. So sorry I skipped reading your terms which likely took quite some time to for you come up. But I would imagine most people skipped too. Anybody read those can raise their hands. Like snakebunk said, proposing bet "is a lousy argument". So let's forget about discussing bets further.

mhedges said:

When it comes to memory cards the thing I'm curious about (which doesn't really pertain to this thread exactly but still) is will cameras ever stop needing them. Either due to built in storage or using some kind of cloud based service.

Well using cell phone as a reference, built-in storage happens on very low end and very high end. So I would imagine most people want the flexibility of expansion slots even if they may not use it. On the very low end, it's cost cutting to the barebone and providing the minimum functionality. I doubt there is a place there for general camera anymore since a barely functioning camera is no use in this cell phone world. Maybe some cameras sold in toy stores for kids, like the disposable cameras before.

On the high end, it depends on how captive the equipment makers can hold its customers. Apple is able to do that. Can the camera makers at some point be able to do that? Basically, will the customers suck it up and pay the premium or will they say, screw it, I would rather not have such a camera, or buy a competitive one with the expansion available.

Gambling depends on what jurisdiction you are in and how you do it. If your jurisdiction has particular issues that would raise a roadblock, the Subject clause would have dealt with that.

OK. But, I have made a prediction so I will watch how things develop and tell everyone how the bet would have worked out.

PS:
TC88, I would like to acknowledge and thank you for raising my awareness of some of the issues relating to SD cards and their users. While I still maintain my core belief on where the market is headed, you have certainly shifted my thinking on how it will head there.

Pistnbroke

Interesting to read the comment that the Z6s will be the last 24 MP Nikon.
Not sure what that means ....will all be more or will all be less ?

snakebunk

I am very happy to read that there will be a real vertical grip and animal AF. If the af works great it is only long prime lenses and/or Sigma lens support that I am missing. A lager buffer is also great news (will also be good for WestEndFoto I believe).

@Pistnbroke: i think all sensors will have more than 24 mp. But it would be funny if it says so because of a new 23 mp sensor . If you take it literally it doesn't really mean anything.

WestEndFoto

snakebunk said:

I am very happy to read that there will be a real vertical grip and animal AF. If the af works great it is only long prime lenses and/or Sigma lens support that I am missing. A lager buffer is also great news (will also be good for WestEndFoto I believe).



@Pistnbroke: i think all sensors will have more than 24 mp. But it would be funny if it says so because of a new 23 mp sensor . If you take it literally it doesn't really mean anything.

Yes, the Z7II is looking pretty attractive to me. The SD card is a quibble, reduced with a larger buffer.

photobunny

Z7 Mark II is looking to be a better buy than upgrading my Z6 to a Mark II. Get a pixel bump for more details in my shots. If it can pump 9 FPS(Not the stupid H+ mode on the Z6, that might be 9 and 12FPS but you canny keep on the subject) with better AF. I have a 70-200 S on its way and my eyes on the 24-70/2.8 or 50/1.2 for the mid range zoom to complement the 1.8 50 and 85 I already have.

Of note, the only F lens I will be buying is the 500mm PF. I would prefer it too was a Z as I don't want to put money in F lenses, but at only £3100 it is too good to miss while waiting on a Z version, which I hope is just 5cm shorter.

[Deleted User]

I expect Westendfoto is a venture capitalist/PE where they are accustomed to losing 11out of every 12 speculative investments and 10 year investments are not unheard of - but obviously sticking one where he has enough warrants to make a killing against the losses on the other 11. This in addition to his altered state of lack of consciousness presumably the result of the low oxygen levels from the altitude in Alberta has brought to us more arrogance and presumption that from his limited knowledge, he is Nostrodomus.

Stick to options, futures contracts, and shorting stock rather than offering inane offers for bets.

It would be most pleasant if he moved to Sony and obtained all of the tech he needs to fill an XQD card without hitting buffer limits and not having to be dissatisfied with SD cards.

Perhaps he has taken to T shots to augment his muscle mass to manage the tons of equipment he has accumulated (and presumably does need to hire a Llama to carry it all into the wilderness), but he is an outlier upon which whose opinions and desire for tech do not profits make for camera companies.

I find his incessant need to be front and center and right on all fronts a bit sociopathic - can I offer Risperdal or Clorazil as an antidote? Oh that's right, there is no medication for narcississm.

Perhaps we could invite those more in the know concerning current costs of wafers, buffer limits and flash cards who could enlighten us more than 10 year old tech upon which we have a flood of speculation.

In the meantime I suggest he stick with the D6 and XCD cards.

mhedges

Pistnbroke said:

Interesting to read the comment that the Z6s will be the last 24 MP Nikon.
Not sure what that means ....will all be more or will all be less ?

I'm thinking more. Rumor is the A74 will be 36 mp and Nikon and Sony seem to like to share sensors for their lower MP models.

WestEndFoto

Flip, how can I have an incessant need to be right on all fronts if I am losing 11 out of 12?

And I respect others views and learn from them. I might have lost $10k with TC88 and been disgruntled. But generally, I enjoy the company of others that can show me that I am wrong. I find people looking for confirmation from their friends and associates annoying, especially when they agree with me because they bring no value to the table. It is built into my decision making strategy, which is:

Form a hypothesis using gut instinct and any facts and evidence available.

Test the hypothesis (try to prove it wrong). Enlist others help in testing (ie, encourage people to prove me wrong). Testing can range from reflecting for 24 hours for small decisions to a billion dollar study for something like a vaccine. Do you think I think all those predictions I make have more than a 20% chance of being right? But if that is the best hypothesis, you go with it.

If the testing pans out, proceed. If not, come up with a new hypothesis.

And most important, continue testing the hypothesis after you proceed. This allows you to fail quickly and cheaper and removes ego from the equation better than any other framework I am aware of.

And I am sorry if I don't see Nikon rumours as a coffee shop. I am hear to be at the forefront of photography and where possible, push the envelope. Chit chatting is a nice to have but secondary benefit.

In fact, this place could use some vigorous but respectful debates. Just recall how dynamic this forum was 5 or 6 years ago. Compare it to the blog today.

And yes, I am a Type A personality and love debating. I regret that it offends you. But unfortunately I inherited my Type A personality from my paternal grandmother and I love debating. So that is not going to change.

And if you really want to know what I do, you should be able to figure it out fairly easy.

spraynpray

Lets call an end to this handbags at dawn stuff please chaps.

WestEndFoto

I would endorse that.

tc88

"handbags at dawn". Love some of those British phrases.

WestEndFoto

"Handbags at Dawn" is better for both of us than the alternative, don't you think TC88?

tc88

@WestEndFoto, yeah, but I prefer neither. Life is too short as is to be bogged down on internet handbagging.

WestEndFoto

tc88 said:

@WestEndFoto, yeah, but I prefer neither. Life is too short as is to be bogged down on internet handbagging.

OK. I like debating as I said. Please feel free to let me know if you think I am going to far in the future.

tc88

@WestEndFoto, haha, no worries. It goes both ways. Sometimes pride gets to be too important.

mhedges

tc88 said:

@WestEndFoto, yeah, but I prefer neither. Life is too short as is to be bogged down on internet handbagging.

We must be in the upside down now because I've completely agreed with at least 3 of your recent posts.