D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

roombarobot

Now if the D600 is producing so many spots that they show up every 500 clicks appearing in objectionable numbers during a photo shoot I agree the body has a serious issue and should go back.

@donaldjose, my D600 was producing unacceptable, landscape-wrecking spots sooner than every 100 shots. This was after 3 services by Nikon. That's why I got rid of it and advise others to avoid this model.

jimo

In my last post I reported (July 17th) that there was no dust or oil after 730 shots. I can now report that after 1608 shots I still can not find any dust, spots, or oil marks in my images. Either the problem has been fixed or I am just plan lucky.

spraynpray

OK, now we are seeing more and more people posting here with this problem. I hope we can get some balance and that other new people will join NR to post on here that they have not problems, because despite the widely held belief that only people with problems post or that they shout loudest, if I had a D600 and it didn't have spots, I would be shouting it here.

@donaldjose: I think you may be exaggerating just a little. To use your example, I am happy to service my car every 10000 miles, but not every 100 or even 1000.

It was 18 months and about 6000 clicks before I had to have my D7K cleaned and in the 4-5 months since I have no spots. That is reasonable and now that my camera is out of warranty I will be cleaning it myself but at the rate that spots are appearing on some D600's we can't be sure that we can get through even one days shooting without having a problem and that makes me not buy a D600.

Msmoto

It appears the issue is one of pure chance....some will have the spots and some not. Whether the spots stop occurring is another gamble.

A note again, the D4 spewed oil on its sensor, but after about 10,000 clicks, almost nothing. Thus, one cleaning (70 spots) was adequate. However, many folks will shoot 10,000 images only over a long period of time and this makes the return issue tough if it has been 18 months since purchase and at 10,000 images the sensor is still being oiled up.

So, a balance must be struck with the capabilities of the D600 to create fine images vs. the oiling of the sensor issue. If one can clean the sensor themselves, maybe it is worth the problem to have the D600. In my book, I think I will await Nikon coming up with a D600s or what ever they call it, and hopefully they will have the issue resolved.

donaldejose

roombarobat: Yes, your D600 was unacceptable. Apparently, some are. My D600, one of the very early models, was very different. So buying a D600 with or without a spot/oil problem is a matter of pure chance. Perhaps the used market on this model will be advertising how many spots appear every 5,000 clicks as well as the number of shutter actuations. But then, how would you know if you can believe the seller? Still a matter of chance. It is really a great camera for someone who likes, and is used to, the control layout of their current D7000 and wants to go FX. I just checked mine this morning. I have shot 2,564 exposures since the last time I cleaned the sensor. No spots, perfectly clean and I checked at both f16 and at f36. That seems perfectly acceptable to me.

Let us just be rational for a moment. The oil and dust spots must be coming from some internal part, most likely the mirror mechanism because that is the part which would be moving with each exposure to throw off dust/grindings and oil. Eventually, the excess dust/grindings and oil will all have come off that part and have been cleaned off the sensor and the problem will be over. It should not be a problem for the entire life of the camera (unless the dust is being sucked in from outside for some reason unique to the D600 and not applicable to other Nikon bodies which seems untenable). When will it end and how bad will it be until it ends? Guess that depends upon how much excess dust/grindings/oil was on the part in the first place. This amount likely varies. It could be a quality control issue on the part before it was placed into the body. As Msmoto shared even the D4 had 70 spots at 10,000 clicks. Certainly Nikon must be identifying the problem and correcting it in current production rather than waiting to make a change when the D600 is upgraded. By the way, I could argue that my D600 "spot issue" is better than Msmoto's D4 since I have only had about 20 spots up to 7164 clicks and no more are appearing in the last 2,564 exposures! At that rate it is hard to see how I will get up to her 70 spots at 10,000 clicks. Imagine that, the D600 has fewer spots than the D4!

MikeGunter

Hi all,

Let us just be rational for a moment.

It's totally random.

A lot like Russian roulette, only the odds are worse, more like using an automatic. ;-)

My best,

Mike

donaldejose

Mike: Rationally, I don't think it is an endemic design defect. Seems to me to be some parts not being cleaned and some parts being over-oiled. Whether or not you get one of those parts in your D600 is totally random but the issue should have been identified and corrected by now so the new D600 bodies leaving the plant should not have the issue. My D600 seems to have had some (but not much) excess dust/grindings/oil. Does anyone have a recently produced D600 with a severe dust/grindings/oil spots issue?

dooley

Nikon sells a body with some kind of lubricant that gets on the sensor and their recommended cleaning method does not clean the sensor. I have no problem blowing off the sensor, but wet cleaning seems to be the only way to clean the lubricant and Nikon doesn't recommend wet cleaning. Maybe Nikon should sell a wet cleaning kit that is approved for use with the D600 so we can clean it ourselves and not have to worry about warranty issues. If anyone knows of a cleaning method that is approved by Nikon that cleans the oil/lubricant from the sensor, I would love to know what it is. Nikon says to send it in and be without it for a few weeks. I truly hope my D600 comes back fixed and oil free. I guess I'll find out soon when it comes back from Melville. My D7100 has twice as many clicks and zero oil, just a random dust spot that blows out with the rocket.

donaldejose

A person can scratch the glass over the sensor or put excess fluid on the glass which can work into the sensor around the edges. Since Nikon has no control over how the customer conducts the cleaning they recommend against it for their own protection, not because it is so hard or dangerous. When you send the body in and they clean it for you they are probably using the same cleaning methods that we can learn to use. We are not really cleaning the sensor; we are cleaning glass on top of the sensor. It shouldn't be too dangerous or difficult to clean glass. Nikon just wants to distance itself from any thing we do so it doesn't have to repair our damage under warranty.

spraynpray

"Nikon says to send it in and be without it for a few weeks."

Which is why I suggested to Nikon Service that they have a while-you-wait sensor cleaning service for a reasonable charge that they could do free on D600's. They are not open to customer suggestions it seems.

Msmoto

I think the word rational when used in the context of a D600 is an oxymoron. Nikon has been so non-user friendly, per customer reports, it is an impossibility to understand what is happening in the D600. Apparently Nikon has done a cost benefit analysis and determined from their perspective they are doing what is cost effective.

However, this is not understandable as well, especially when one comes from a culture which suggests the customer is always right.

As I have suggested before, the D600, fully refurbished might be worth $1300 or $1400, but one would need a guarantee the dirt/oil would cease after a few thousand clicks. And, for me, I would test this by simply running the shutter for about 3,000 clicks, then cleaning and doing another 1,000 and rechecking. The idea is to get passed the garbage period and get to the point no more junk gets on the sensor.

heartyfisher

Its quite amazing really that these oil/messy bits can even get on the sensor considering its covered by the shutter 99.99999 % of the time ..

Golf007sd

@spraynpray: The Nikon Service Center in Los Angles will clean your sensor free of charge should anyone walk in. I have seen them offer that type of service personally while checking in my gear the last time I was there. In fact, it was on a D800 that a photographer had brought in.

My experience with Nikon's Service Center has been fantastic. Should I ever need anything done on my gear, they are the one's I will go to first.
Sidebar: I do not mail anything to them, I walk it into the repair center.

spraynpray

That isn't the case here in the UK @Golf007sd ! Here in the UK it is chargeable unless you have a problem
The cost is around £40.

MikeGunter

Hi all,

The D600 has systemic and pervasive problems that lend itself to a model that should simply be avoided, IMHO.

I wouldn't buy it at any price and wouldn't recommend anyone to buy it either, ever.

One never knows when the problem will show itself.

@Golf007sd - Seriously? You'd recommend anyone to carry their camera to walk in service? I get to LA occasionally, but that's 2500 miles away for me, and equal distant from New York. Doesn't that sound, to put mildly, extreme? You might want to rethink and edit that post. :-)

The so called free warranty cleaning will run out, too. Then what's left? A big bag of poo.

I might be interested in the D600s, D601, or whatever camera fixes the jinxed D600, but the D600 is DOA.

My best,

Mike

dooley

I agree that Nikon should have authorized repair shops able to clean sensors for free until Nikon corrects the issue. It is obvious that the D600 has issues that no other Nikon DSLR has. Based on the reviews on the Nikon USA website, only 63% would recommend the D600 while 85% would recommend the D800, 94% recommend the D4, and 96% recommend the D7100. I found no complaints of dust/oil in the 180+ D800 reviews while many reported dust/oil in the D600 reviews. It is obviously a QC issue with this camera that needs to be addressed by Nikon. Honestly, I believe enough cameras are affected to warrant a recall, but we know Nikon won't do that. Nikon has had over a year to deal with this issue and they will only acknowledge that complaints have been made, but they have not stated a resolution to actually correct the issue. It would be nice, however, to have a local place be able to clean the sensor for free since mailing it in for service doesn't appear to correct the issue in most cases. After all, Nikon marketed the faulty camera and refuses to offer a real solution.

Golf007sd

@MikeGunter: No need for me to to edit my post. I'm speaking from what I have experienced, in relation to service I had performed for myself and kkanuck at the LA Service Center. I give them high marks for the work they have provided me so far. In fact, Adamz, had his broken D800 fixed within hours after he had taken it into a Nikon Service Center in Germany on his way back home.

I do however count myself lucky in living within a close distance to LA which makes this task for me very easy.

Extreme? How so? I always feel it is best to take any gear I buy to the store I got it from or an service center they have. Case in point, if my MacbookPro has an issue that needs to be addressed, I just walk it into an Apple Store and have then address it. If my car has issues, I drive it to the MB service department.

In addition, whenever I take my goods to a service center, I get to know the staff; hence,I build a good healthy relationship with them. I've had many work done on items out or warranty for Free because of such relationship. If you have good inter-personal skills use them....they have served me well.

Note: The services I had performed at Nikon, had nothing to do with sensor cleaning. I do that on my own without hesitation. As I have said before, it is not a complicated task and if that is the only issue a user that needs to be addressed, they sure could save themselves a lot of down time and frustration, by getting was is needed and have it all done in less than 5 minutes.

catfish

Did you ever wonder about starting one of those online petitions about the D600 problem? I have, I always wondered how the rest of you would feel about it. If the media got wind of it and it was on the ABC or NBC Nightly News, how do you think our friends at Nikon would respond then. I don't have a D600 but I thought I would like to if it was ever truly fixed. @MikeGunter: brought up a good thought about not buying one, what if this leads to a problem down the road that won't be covered by warranty like the mirror assy falling apart and taking out the sensor or something like that. I think Mike is right. So what does everyone feel about starting a petition for all the folks who did buy a D600?

Ade

I'm afraid a petition won't do a thing. Bad reviews might have, but sites like dpreview gave the D600 their highest ratings (Gold Award in dpreview's case).

I am surprised some attorney hasn't started a class-action lawsuit yet... maybe the bad publicity could shame Nikon into action.

MikeGunter

Hi all,

@donaldejose - My friend, we'll have to agree to disagree. The wind is too full of riff on this camera for me to think that it isn't systemic.

@Golf007sd - You might have misread my intend (and it would be my poor writing if your had), I find it sort of funny to recommend out-of hand to 'at large' to walk-in and have the camera cleaned. It's sort of like telling the poor to satisfy their hunger to eat cake - that's been done before with rather bad results. ;-)

I had great luck with the old Norcross, GA, facility years ago (it's closed now) when I was the officer in charge of a large photo unit in Fort Benning, GA, but then I often went to Atlanta. Of course, a lot has change from then to now - I had hair then, for one. :-)

@catfish - The only petition that really counts is your pocketbook and your voice here and anywhere you can be heard. Some sites, as Ade as pointed out do rank the camera highly.

In my opinion, they are subsided by advertising and are biased (look at their ratings - it doesn't take a Philadelphia lawyer long to see that crappy equipment still scores fairly high - how does that work?). Remember, the reviews are written long before production models are available.

No one should buy the camera new or used. It's a toxic POS, regardless of the rating scores these self-proclaimed experts on high give it. Buying this camera can, and most probably will give the owner woes that come with caveate empor. And the defects the buyer gets will be something they will have to eat.

This model, or any other model from Nikon or any other camera maker that doesn't live up to the deal they made with the buyer, needs to have their bargain met.

In the case of the D600, Nikon failed.

My best,

Mike

donaldejose

Mike's opinion of the D600 seems a bit extreme to me, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions and to vote with their poeketbook. My D600 needed a few simple cleanings, that's all, and the dust has reduced over time to the point where I am now at nearly 3,000 exposures with no new dust appearing since the last cleaning. Not so bad and sensor cleaning is a skill we all should probably learn for use on all bodies anyway. I have checked my other bodies, found spots and cleaned them since I learned the technique.

One can use the experience of lensrentals as a guide. They rent 60 D600 bodies and they check each body (of all makes and models) after each rental so they have a good basis upon which to compare the D600 dust issue with dust in other bodies. Their conclusion: "So it looks like the problem is going to be something you see early in ownership that clears up over time." If that is correct, it could explain why Nikon is dragging their feet on a fix: the passage of time itself along with some cleanings will solve the problem.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/not-surprisingly-d600-dust-issue-gets-better-over-time

This article was written in November 2012. I hope they will do an update soon.

donaldejose

I just checked with lensrentals and their technicians who do the sensor cleaning have the impression that the D600 dust issue seems to be minimal after about 5,000 exposures which is the same as my experience.

So anyone out there with a D600 still having a dust issue after 5,000 exposures? after 10,000 exposures?

roombarobot

Nikonfan99 has been very carefully documenting his experience with oil spots on his D600 via the dpreview forums. I don't know where he is at now, but after a quick search I found a post from him from 7 months ago and he was still having spots after almost 13,000 actuations. http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50579734

Msmoto

It is my opinion that the issue is still unknown. Nikon has not said "we have found the problem and fixed it". Thus I can easily see where Mike is coming from. I would not ever take a D600 out on a professional job, nor would I find it useful for anything I had only one shooting gig with it. The unreliability I.e., spots or no spots, makes the D600 useless for a primary camera IMO. I think this is what Mike is saying, and I do not find it to be anything but a fairly clear professional's viewpoint.

proudgeek

I've said many times that I should have been the ideal candidate for the D600 — the right glass, the right place on the learning curve to get something out of it, etc. What got me was the unknown. Some were having an awful experience with the issue, while others weren't experiencing it at all. I went so far as to accost D600 owners in the street to ask them if they were experiencing oil issues. Most said no, but as someone here mentioned that could be because they weren't looking for them or shooting in a way that they were visible. With all that information available, I bought a D800. I could have used the $1,000 for something else (like food or my mortgage), but felt it was worth it for my peace of mind. That's not to say that the D800 won't have crap on the sensor or other issues, but I just felt that there was no reason to take the risk.
At this rate, the D600 is quickly becoming Nikon's Edsel.