D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

Ade

I wouldn't overdo the lawyer - lawsuit threats, until/unless it becomes necessary as the last resort.

Many companies have a policy that once they think litigation is likely, they totally hunker down and slam the door shut on you. Every attempt to communicate with them becomes "sorry, due to possible legal action, we're instructed not to take any further action pending legal proceedings".

So far, I think @bbarb has been dealing with Nikons Customer Service dept., which is good because they will want to make things right for you. As @catfish says, keep escalating and press for a resolution.

When dealing with Customer Service, the old saying is true: "the squeaky wheel gets the grease."

Photobug

Nice post catfish. Very logical post. Thank you for posting this information.

Moderators, this is great information sharing and what I expected when I started participating in NR.

catfish

Nice post catfish. Very logical post. Thank you for posting this information.

Moderators, this is great information sharing and what I expected when I started participating in NR.

You are welcome @photobug glad you found it helpful

dooley

I received my D600 back from Nikon in NY today. First I want to say that this repair was rather fast. Nikon had my camera in their possession for only 7 business days including the days they received it and shipped it back. I was only without the camera for 12 days total. I am impressed with the turnaround time.

I have not had a chance to try it out yet, but I will be shooting it tomorrow. The shutter mechanism was replaced and the low pass filter was cleaned. They also updated the firmware. I hope that only dust appears and no lubricant. I can deal with dust that blows out. I guess I will soon find out if this fix is actually a fix. Apparently, they believe the problem is with the shutter mechanism or they wouldn't have replaced it. I will test it out in the daylight tomorrow.

spraynpray

Apparently, they believe the problem is with the shutter mechanism or they wouldn't have replaced it.

I hope they do a full deep clean on the camera too as they need to get out all the cr@p that hasn't yet found its way onto the sensor. There are stories of bodies having shutters changed but still soiling themselves - that either means dust from the first shutter is still in there or they changed the old shutter for one that had the same problem. @-)

bbarb

@catfish: Once more an excelent post. Thank you for those advices. I am waiting for more (i think we all are). Really helpful and valuable advices not only for me but for all of us I think. These kind of advices and these kind of dialogs, add value to forums/internet/ etc. Thank you.
The D610 replacment is something he mentioned and not my guess. But when i asked if indeed there will be a new D600 (ie D610) he said they dont have something official yet.
@Ade: You have a good point on that. The lawyer senario may involve risks. Thats why I was very gentle on that. I didnt threat him, i just asked him what is his opinion and how he thinks of getting lawyers involved. But again, you are correct the risks are indeed there.
@dooley: as @spraynpray comments, unfortunately there have been reports of D600s with shutter exchanges that still suffer from sensor spots. Keep also in mind that my D600 has the S/N that do not requires shutter exchange because i already have the new one (according to Nikon) but i still have those spots. So it must be something else or it propably is a compination of problems, i dont know.
We dont want to discourage you, and i hope you have your problem solved once and for good.
Please be so kind to report as soon as you shoot 100-200 images.

Everything looks on track for me at the moment i think, unless all this is a clever approach by them to save time. I already have a D800, to have my mouth shut, and i have something like a promise for an exchange. If this is the senario, i think i will fall into the case @ade adviced me to avoid, i will get stack with my D600. But in the end, if they manage to permanetly fix my d600, its ok by me. The d600 without sensor spots is an excelent camera. its excactly what i wanted.

amhalpern

Just an FYI on this matter. My camera is currently in the nikon repair center for oil spots for the third time in less than 6 months. They replaced the shutter and cleaned the low pass filter the first 2 times and within 1000 clicks the problem was back just as bad as before. I even wet cleaned the sensor after that thinking it was just breaking in but to no avail. The spots keep coming back. I really hope the 3rd time is a charm. If not I will be escalating as far as I can. I would really like to get this resolved so I can actually do some serious shooting. I really love this camera but I can't deal with the oil spots. The fact that nikon has not publicly admitted or sent out a service notice that this is a problem after hundreds, maybe thousands of d600 users are having this issue tells me that They have something to hide.
Since more and more people are mentioning legal action it seems that it may be a feasible action to take should Nikon not actually resolve this problem with the current d600. I will post the results after I get my camera back from the 3rd time.

donaldejose

Might be a possible class action lawsuit here.

mustangdaren

I had dust on my sensor but as of today I noticed oil spots also. The spots are bad enough to be visible at f/2.8. I think the only way Nikon will ever resolve this issue is if a lawsuit forces them to. Hopefully they will do it on their own and have a recall if not I guess I will save my pennies for a D800 or just say the heck with Nikon on move on to a Canon 5DMKIII.

amhalpern

Dust is ok with me because it can be easily eliminated. Oil spots on the sensor requires a wet cleaning to get rid of. It is way to easy to damage the sensor if you are not VERY careful. Nikon has a manufacturing issue but the financial and image ramifications of having a recall or admitting this publicly is more than they are willing to accept. I hope they figure out a solution soon.

donaldejose

How many people have damaged their sensor by cleaning it? Are we not just cleaning a piece of glass on top of the sensor? So we would have to put a scratch in the glass to damage it? Blowing the air out won't scratch glass. A wet cleaning is supposed to pick up the dust onto the wet cloth and not scratch the glass. So I am just wondering how serious a risk it is to clean your own sensor? Moose Peterson says he cleans his sensor after every shoot at the end of the day. If it was so dangerous you would think he would have scratched his sensor many times by now.

ccwestcliff

I was absolutely novice to the whole sensor cleaning business until I got my D600 who had some spots in the usual location after the first 250 shots. I watched the usual videos on how to do it and started doing it with no issues other than needing several swipes to get it really clean and streak free.
Last week I cleaned it again and must have picked up some serious dirt that I smeared all over the sensor. As I was worried about scratches as well (little did I know), I took it to my local camera shop who confirmed that it was just smear and cleaned to professionally for 40 bucks.
I strongly belief that if someone follows the guidelines, has the right tools (swipes and cleaning liquid) and a steady hand, it is a straight forward process that doesn't damages the glass on top of the sensor.
I also strongly belief that if someone has a semi-professional camera like the D600 and presumably some good lenses with it, he/she should be able to clean the sensor him/herself!

catfish

@bbarb Don't let anyone here with a negative comment discourage you -- If Nikon told you that you would be very happy in a month, I would believe it. If they wanted to get rid of you and your camera they would just tell you they have done all they are going to do for you, they would not provide you a D800 loaner, they would just say this issue is closed. Just wait the month, I believe they will be true to their word. Keep the Faith Baby.

donaldejose

bbarb: you can look at it this way: the longer it takes them to fix your D600 the more time you have to work with a more expensive body. That isn't a loss to you as long as they finally do get all the dust out before they return it to you.

spraynpray

I do know a fellow who scratched a friends sensor by doing a wet clean and he was vastly experienced when he did it, having cleaned many times more sensors than I ever will in my lifetime.

The FACTS are that you are playing 'Russian roulette' with your sensor when you clean it, and that the sensor swipe does not 'pick up the debris', any debris simply sticks to it so once nicely stuck to the swipe, it rubs along the surface of the sensor and you are hoping - yes, hoping - that the hardness if the debris is less than the hardness of the filters coating or glass and that the applied fluid will provide sufficient lubrication so as to further reduce the chances of a problem.

There is no future in deluding ourselves, we take a risk each and every time we do it so to buy a body where it is a daily routine is at best FOLLY. At least with a dealer or Nikon we get the sensor changed if they scratch it.

sevencrossing

last time I took my sensor to be cleaned , the dealer told it would cost £50 but suggest I bought a kit for of 10 swabs for ~ £30 and do it my self

it has saved me a lot of money and time

'Russian roulette' ? yes I did that every time I got my bike, to go to the dealer

bbarb

Moose Peterson says he cleans his sensor after every shoot at the end of the day. If it was so dangerous you would think he would have scratched his sensor many times by now.

Maybe he uses d600 lolololo.

@guys, sensor cleaning is part of maintenance and not a preparation for shooting. Preparation for shooting is to charge the battery. But again it depends on what you do. If you shoot in desert and wind blows and you change lenses all the time, well in that case maybe it requires to do it every day, because you increase the risk of geting your sensor dirty. But again in such a case i would prefer - if possible of course- having two or 3 bodies with already fixed the proper lenses. For instance last time i went on trip, i had a d800e with 14 24 fited, my d600 with 24 70, and my 50d canon with 70 200. So no lenses exchange at all during the shooting, i just shifted bodies.

Anyway, i think i am cursed. The d800 charger that came with the d800 nikon gave me is not working.... I contacted them again, i pretended to be very disapointed. I said them is beyond my understanding to use nikon gear for about 3 months and experience so many problems already. They gave me already a new charger and a spare batery as well and they told me they feel i am a little bit unlucky, but again they said in the end i will be happy and that i should not worry. I asked if there are any news for my d600, but there are not.
@catfish , thanks, i hope you are correct, i also feel nikon will not let down a user like this.
@donaldejose , yes i agree. Thanks.

donaldejose

Moose Peterson uses a D4 and a D800.

Here are links to his cleaning regime.


Lens cleaning: http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2009/01/30/cleaning-da-gear-pt1/

Body/sensor cleaning: http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2009/01/30/cleaning-da-gear-pt2/

front element: http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2009/02/02/cleaning-da-gear-pt3/

latest sensor cleaning: http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2012/06/11/sensor-cleaning-with-copperhill/


I too prefer to not change lenses outdoors and carry two bodies when shooting outdoors.

How many other people know of folks who scratched a sensor with a wet clean? I wonder just how great a risk this is? I have been blowing first, use very gentle pressure wet clean and then only use more pressure if there are any spots left, which has only happened to me once.

bbarb

I ve never heard sensor scratch during cleaning, but its a possible senario, but i think a bit rare.
Thanks for the links donaldejose.

heartyfisher

Usually hard dust wont stick to the sensor and if it did the sensor vibration should dislodge them and a puff from the blow would dislodge that kind of dust. so its really unlikely that the hard dust would stay on the sensor if you do the vibrate sensor clean then blow before you wet clean. By the time you wet clean you will only have to deal with the sticky dust, like pollen( or oil ;-) ), which wont scratch.

PB_PM

I do know a fellow who scratched a friends sensor by doing a wet clean and he was vastly experienced when he did it, having cleaned many times more sensors than I ever will in my lifetime.

The FACTS are that you are playing 'Russian roulette' with your sensor when you clean it, and that the sensor swipe does not 'pick up the debris', any debris simply sticks to it so once nicely stuck to the swipe, it rubs along the surface of the sensor and you are hoping - yes, hoping - that the hardness if the debris is less than the hardness of the filters coating or glass and that the applied fluid will provide sufficient lubrication so as to further reduce the chances of a problem.

There is no future in deluding ourselves, we take a risk each and every time we do it so to buy a body where it is a daily routine is at best FOLLY. At least with a dealer or Nikon we get the sensor changed if they scratch it.

I agree. Here in Canada Nikon charges $35 for a sensor clean. I'd have to be cleaning it constantly for that not be be a good deal. I find cleaning the sensor of my cameras once a year to be good enough. Usually a blower is all I need.

catfish

My D60 (acquired 2008) has never had a wet cleaning, always used a blower and the sensor cleaning function, one time I did get a particularly stubborn spot and I took the soft brush that comes with those lens cleaning kits and gave it a good sweep-down fore and aft, I did not put a lot of pressure on it but it came out clean and there was no damage done. Now I'm not recommending that anyone do that to their sensor but i think they are a lot tougher than we realize. My D300s has never had a wet cleaning either until it went to Nikon for a card slot problem. I'll change my lens whenever I want, not in the middle of a sandstorm but not under clean-room conditions either, most of the time I don't think about where the lens opening is either. Maybe I've just been lucky, I don't know, but like I said earlier I believe they are a lot more sturdy than we think they are. They are made to have the sensors cleaned and to have their lens changed. imho

catfish

This post just made me think about the different types of camera cleaning products and it made me look on eBay where I saw this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Digital-Camera-Lens-Cleaning-Kit-Sensor-Cleaner-D7000-D5100-D3200-D4-/200945928384?pt=Digital_Camera_Accessories&hash=item2ec94f88c0 I could not find it on Nikon's website but it is sold by Cameta Camera who isn't any fly by night store, they even say it is warrantied by Nikon for a year. They don't use swabs on the sensor though, they use the pen. Is this what they use at the service centers? Just seemed strange to me.

Ade

I could be wrong I don't think it's an actual Nikon product. I think it's a 3rd party product that is "co-branded" with Nikon logo. It's basically just a LensPen SensorKlear Loupe Kit plus a couple small extras.

And the 1 year warranty is not a Nikon warranty. That's just the warranty on the LensPen (not on your camera).

Personally, I wouldn't use it (especially for the D600) as I don't think this solution works well with oil or any other liquid substance.

Nikon does sell a lens & sensor cleaning kit, but to my knowledge, they only offer it for the Japanese market:

http://shop.nikon-image.com/front/ProductPSP00052.do

It's called the "Nikon Professional Cleaning Kit" (about US$80 at current exchange rate) -- basically a wet cleaning kit with some cleaning paper, a stick to wrap the paper on, a blower, brush, microfiber cloth, etc.

It also comes with a CD-ROM with step by step instructions on how to do the cleaning. Here's an excerpt from YouTube (in Japanese only, naturally):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2yfZL0edqs

catfish

I could be wrong I don't think it's an actual Nikon product. I think it's a 3rd party product that is "co-branded" with Nikon logo. It's basically just a LensPen SensorKlear Loupe Kit plus a couple small extras.

And the 1 year warranty is not a Nikon warranty. That's just the warranty on the LensPen (not on your camera).

I see what you mean about it being a packaged product, I never thought the warranty was on the camera though, but it does lead one to believe that is a Nikon endorsed product, especially with the big seal and NIKON WARRANTY sticking out.