D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

catfish

Nikon's Edsel -- unfortunately by their own making. If Nikon were to fix the spotting issue and make some gesture to the current D600 owners it would not have to go down that way. The scores that the D600 achieved at DXOMark testify to just how good a camera it could be. I would love to buy one but I don't have the cash to gamble on it. I'm in a real quandary, I'd really like to replace my D300s but there is no camera better than it in the DX line-up and there doesn't appear that there will be any time soon, there are three Full Frame choices available, the D700 still a great camera but a year older than my D300s, the D800 which is quite a bit more camera than I need and quite a bit more expensive, and the D600 with a great price, great specs, but unfortunately it comes with a gamble. I wish lenses were universal but since they aren't Nikon has backed me right into a wall. At the end of the day no one wins, I'm not giving my money to Nikon, and I don't get the new camera I want.

donaldejose

I guess only time will tell whether this is a life long risk for a D600 owner. I do hope it is not, as has been my experience to date.

proudgeek

I don't think it's a lifelong risk and you appear to be out of the woods. I'm guessing that at some point all D600 owners will be out of the woods. If someone were to guarantee me that after 3,000 actuations the problem would go away, I might have bought a D600 and pressed the shutter button 3,000 times. The truth is that your case (users who have experienced relatively little trouble) might be the rule rather than the exception. I'm going to assume you're fairly compulsive about your gear and check your sensor frequently. For me, I couldn't justify the risk of being the exception. Even with the autofocus issue on the D800, Nikon got out in front of that and fixed it. I think what people like Mike G are concerned about is Nikon's lack of acknowledgement that there's even an ongoing problem.

catfish

I believe that if Nikon acknowledges and fixes the issue in new production, they should also offer the new camera to any customer who purchased one prior to the fix or fix their cameras and extend the warranty for a year or some kind of very special deal on a lens after they have repaired their camera. I don't see them doing any of that though. I think everyone is basically screwed.

spraynpray

What I think could be the issue for D600 owners is that they may find the resale values of the D600 to be greatly affected by this problem.

Photobug

I agree with spraynpray when he said:
What I think could be the issue for D600 owners is that they may find the resale values of the D600 to be greatly affected by this problem.

People will avoid this by not buying the used ones when they are dumped on eBay.

The solution is to have owners send in their camera and Nikon to fix them for free. If they paid shipping both ways their would improve their reputation with a lot of people. I bet a lot of D600 owners would not have a problem paying for the shipping cost to Nikon if Nikon did free repair and free return shipping

donaldejose

I have been using my D600 more than I normally would for two reasons: 1. I want to get as many shutter actuations on it as I can (without just tripping the shutter randomly) to see if the spots reappear before I pass 10,000 shutter actuations and 2. I want to see if I ever miss the extra megapixels my D800 provides (so far I don't miss them). For my purposes the difference between the two bodies (D600 and D800) is mainly in which control layout one prefers.

catfish

spraynpray and photobug I agree with both of you about the D600 resale value and the major problem selling them will be the buyer doesn't know whether someone honestly is moving on to another camera or if they are dumping the camera because of the sensor problem. So in a way Nikon is giving the buyer the double whammy.

bbarb

Hi to all,

I am new here and i recently moved from canon to nikon.
Unfortunately i got the d600 which is an amazing camera but with the known sensor dust issue.
Does anyone know that nikon solved the d600 problem in labs, but the dont have the solution in production yet or is it just me??

donaldejose

bbarb: We really don't know the answer because Nikon has not been clear about it. On the one hand Nikon doesn't seem to acknowledge there is an issue which needs more than simply a few more than normal sensor cleanings. So far, that has been my experience with my D600. On the other hand some people have sent their camera in to Nikon and have reported that Nikon replaced the mirror mechanism which suggests an internal part was the cause of the dust and Nikon my be using this new part on the assembly line now. Whether or not Nikon has identified a faulty part or a faulty assembly line procedure and no longer uses that part or that procedure is not clear since Nikon has not so stated. This is why so many people (in addition to those who refuse to learn to frequently clean their sensor themselves and simply return the body) are angry with Nikon. Many people feel Nikon has refused to clearly admit the problem exists and to fix it for free, which we all agree they should do. Possibly in Nikon's defense they may feel that the issue will simply go away over time with a few cleanings so they are offering those cleanings and just waiting for the time to pass until no problems are reported anymore. However, if this is Nikon's conclusion they should clearly state it.

bbarb

@donaldejose: i see....well i disagree with you.
Nikon has officialy stated that in some D600 bodies there is a problem and that they should be sent to nikon to be serviced as needed.
By the way i am one of those that are angry with nikon and we all should be and i am one of those that refuse to clean the sensor as well.
I have done it already twice (nikon did the job) but the problem goes on which means, the camera is 100% useless for work and it is only for hobby or fun!
But hobby and fun cameras cost 100$ and not 1800 euros!

Shame on nikon to keep selling such a camera in the stores.
shame on nikon for not taking over their responsibilities,
same on them for not supporting us.
we dont play games here we live our families and with a 1800 euros d600 you simply cant.

I dont want to hear and i dont care about Cleaning the sensor. This is not a solution it is just a temporary cure.
it doesnt solves the problem it just postpones it.
Unacceptable for nikon unacceptable.

catfish

bbarb I totally concur with your feelings - It's disgraceful after spending that much money, thats like buying a car that may or may not run on Fridays because the battery may be drained, but after you charge the battery it runs fine till next Friday, a lot of people seem to shrug the problem off with 'just clean the sensor' but the dirty sensor could be a warning that perhaps the mirror box assy has a problem and it may fall apart and ruin the sensor ... and it may happen just after the warranty runs out. If Nikon isn't going to take responsibility now they certainly won't be taking it then.

spraynpray

@donaldejose: Donald, you are one of the lucky ones who have had the problem go away. If you weren't and your camera was one that soiled itself very noticeably every 30-100 shots, I rather suspect you wouldn't be so relaxed about the situation.

@bbarb: I get that English isn't your first language and so this may not be possible where you come from, but have you tried taking it back to the shop as not fit for purpose or have you tried telling your Nikon distributor you want another one? If you read more of this thread you may see that is what some have done. Others have upgraded to a D800 and a few (very few) have either had it repaired successfully or had the problem stop on its own.

bbarb

First of all Thanks for the reply.
@catfish: your example is not a good one. The correct example is, to have a car, that after some miles breaks down and you are a taxi driver. Which means no working car, no income today for the family. This is the correct example.
I dont want to sound like the smart ass here, but from your example alone, i can easily tell that your d600 is your hobby and not a tool for work (which is absolutely fine). If you used it for work, you would be in my shoes for sure.
Regarding the solution clean your sensor by youself, those who say that are completely wrong, because you dont have always this luxury. For instance i never have this opportunity.
To make it more clear to you i do travel photography. Which means i get my equipment go to a place, i stay there for 2-4 days and a capture about 5-10 thousand images. So, what do you suggest every 3-4 hours, stop the shooting and find a place free of dust and perform a quick and nice sensor cleaning. This is what it takes to shoot with the d600??? Noway. Trust me noway.
@spraynpray: yes english is not my native language. I do my best. Yes in my place we have an official nikon distributor and i am already in a big fight with them. Do you realy want to know what happened? Its a long story. I dont have problems share my story but it will be a long post. The only think i dont want to share at the moment, is where i come from because i plan to press charges against local nikon and propably the head offices as well if we dont end up with a good solution. I know some of you will laugh, me against nikon, yes it is for laughing. But if i am not alone evrything is possible, thats why i dont get people who say, not a big deal clean it yourself. No this must not be acceptable from us.


Edit: not to mention that even if you perform a sensor cleaning in the mountain, or by the beach (lolololo), in the street and so on, what about those images before the sensor clean, who is going to spot remove them? Who will spot remove 1000 images? Because dont forget that after 100-200 shots dust start to apear.

spraynpray

No way bbarb, we are very interested in your story if you have the time to tell it. I am keen to see many people tell their stories so we get a database of what works and what doesn't. I will not laugh at you against Nikon, mention to your lawyer 'class action' and see if that helps. This is the right place for such a story IMHO.

How many clicks has your D600 done?

catfish

@bbarb First of all bbarb I happen to be on your side in this D600 problem. Secondly I don't own a D600 I wanted to get one but after seeing the problems people were experiencing I decided to hold off and see if Nikon was going to fix the problem. They haven't and at least from outward appearances they aren't going to. I certainly didn't say anything that should of made you angry towards me and if it seemed that way well you are just wrong. I wish you the best outcome in your dealings with Nikon.

bbarb

@catfish: i know you are on my side, i think we are all on the same side, so i am not angry with you, not at all. Why you say that? I am really sorry if i let such an impresson and please accept my apologies. But i guarantee you i am not angry with you!

@spraynpray: i dont have the body with me to check, it is in nikkon, so i estimate about 10.000 to 15.000 clicks. I bought this camera 3 months ago, and i havent use it much from the moment i realized the dust issue an how much useless makes the images, so because of this issue, i used mostly the d800e. I couldnt use this cam because images are completely useless. I will post my story in awhile not now because i am with my kids. Sorry and thank you for your interest and efforts. Some members pm me to help and provide solutions, i really thank you.

catfish

@bbarb The front page http://nikonrumors.com/ may interest you perhaps you could have Nikon exchange your camera for the new model if it is true. I hope for your sake it is. Good Luck.

donaldejose

Yes, I have been lucky with my D600 and it would have been returned if an excessive amount of spots were showing up every 100 shots. Yes, if you have one of the "dirty" bodies and you take thousands of shots a day your camera is unusable for your needs. Certainly, you cannot clean a sensor during the day. What percentage of D600 owners have excessive spots showing up every 1,000 images? We don't know and Nikon won't tell us. Maybe 10%, maybe 20%, or maybe 50%. If we take lensrentals experience and extrapolate it to all D600 users the problem is serious early in ownership but becomes "minimal" after about 10,000 exposures at which point it is about average for all DSLRs.

Perhaps Nikon has been silent on "the fix" because they decided to release it as the D610 (hope they also put in a larger focus area). If so, I hope they will offer all D600 owners a free replacement of the offending part.

bbarb

@Catfish: you saved the day, You saved the day. I didnt knew that.
@sprayandpray: can you please define class acction please, you mean mass action with many people involved?? My laywer asks. Thank you

Now the story i promised. I warned you, in order to tell it it is going to be huge post, and i am not the best at english.
3 months ago i decided to move to nikon. The reason, was very simple D600. A piece of mashinery with great specs from a perfect manufactor at an afordable price. Especialy us, canon shooters, some of us were disapointed with the 6d. I was one of them, not to mention also the ability to draw shadows.
By the way, i was shooting L glass f4, on full frames with crops backup
So, before i move to nikon, i did a research regarding this sensor spot issue, because i was afraid, not to find my self in the situation i am today. I couldnt make my mind by reading the internet, so i decided to call the local nikon. I spoke with the tehcnical supervisor and asked him if there is a known sensor dust problem. He replied, that nikon knows the problem and they have a special cleaning kit from nikon to fix that issue, dont worry, and he added, that its mostly bad rumors because they have seen only three bodies with that issue and they replaced one, among hundret of units the have sold. So it is not a special issue he said. I once again asked him, ""are you sure?"" And i added " I am a canon shooter considering to move to nikon, if i sell my equipment, and my glass to do the change i will not have a backup unless i buy a crop nikon body, but at the moment i cant, so i will keep 1 canon 50d with an almost all around lens 24 105 L,but i will not have wides 17mm and i will not have tele 200 mm, which means i will not be able to fully work if the d600 has problems"" and he again asured me confidently that ,my d600 will not have problems and just in case it does they will easily deal with it.
A few days later, i had a nikon d600, 24 70 2.8 and an 70 300 vr ii and i also had no money, and i was also filling sorry for killing my canon gear and loosing so much money. (I also shoot with a d800e and 14 24 2.8 but i havent paid them, its my partners.)
So after a few shoots with the nikon i noticed, examining the photos at actual size (100% preview), that i had these famous spots and they were to many of them, and the photos of one days work were completely usless. I call the nikon center and i asked the supervisor again. I remind him who am i ( the photographer that called a few days ago to ask about the sensor dust story) and he told me ok bring the camera. So i send the camera and they cleaned the sensor. They also told me that this serial doesnt require shutter exchange. It is an ok serial.
After i took back the camera, i had 4 spots at first click, so after a few more shoots about 500 - 600 i had the same problem again.
I send it again back for second time, and this time they told me that they will do a deeper cleaning especialy for this camera. In my question why you didnt do it the first place they said "i dont know".
In my question how you test the camera, they replied we use a special software from nikon that reveals all the spots, and we perform a test of about 500 shoots and we again check with this software the image.
During the service time 1 week, they called me and asked me if its okey to delay one more day the service of the camera, in order to send sample images in japan, so we will be 140% sure that evrything is ok.
It was fine by me the delay in order to close the case.
So next day they called me that camera is ok, i can pass by to take it, its perfectly clean. When i went there, they show me some test images and this software they have. And they told me once more camera is perfect and clean.
only this time i had planned to do a test in their offices.
So In front of them a customer support, a technical supervisor, and a techical guy i tested the camera with my laptop.
I took the camera i shoot 5-6 bursts, and then i took 1 foto with one lens and an other one with the other lens at f16 to be polite.

bbarb

At first image we had 4 spots, one of them said its the lens, and i told him " now we will see the same image from the other lens, if the other lens has the same 4 spots, we all agree its the sensor, ok? And they all agreed
When i shifted to the image of the other lens we had the same spots.
I again told them, that if there will be only these 4 spots i am ok, because i can remove them , but are you sure that there will not be more in the future?
Then the supervisor took the camera without reply in the lab,and without inviting me in, in a few minutes he came back and gave me the camera to test again. I did once more what i did before, only this time we all saw that we had more spots.
Then he took the camera and inspected it with a lupe, and he said, where the hell is this dust from, the sensor is full of dust?? after a while they asked me to leave and they told me they will call me tomorrow.
Next day, the customer support called and they told me they spok with nikon and they cant fix it.
They need a spare part that nikon has ready in the labs but not in a production line. So we have to wait.
The alternatives with d800 that i asked for were very expensive, and the only thing they can do is give me a demo d600 body fo 1 -2 weeks.
But when i told them that it will again have spots they said not all bodies have this problem. at this point i lost my temper and i told him why dont you give me a new one then, they denied, because they said we are afraid we will have the same issue.
And i told them enough with this joke then.

in my question, when we will have the spare part, they said we dont know, but we hope we will know until friday ( tomorrow).

So here i am, in the place i tried to avoid from the beginning.
But as Albert said " when we make plans, gods are laughing"

Sorry for my english sorry for the huge post.

donaldejose

Terrible experience. Nikon owes you an apology and some free stuff. You are right to be upset. I wish you had gotten my D600 instead of the one you received. Nikon should give you a new D610, if that is coming out.

Photobug

Thanks bbarb for the two long post covering your experience.

I just saw the note that Nikon is about to announce the D610 as the replacement to the D600. I would push Nikon for the new D600.

For all D600 users with the dust problem, the D610 should be the corrective action to the dust problems. I expect that a lot of D600's are going to be sold as these buyers move to the D610.

catfish

Thanks bbarb for the two long post covering your experience.

I just saw the note that Nikon is about to announce the D610 as the replacement to the D600. I would push Nikon for the new D600.

For all D600 users with the dust problem, the D610 should be the corrective action to the dust problems. I expect that a lot of D600's are going to be sold as these buyers move to the D610.

@photobug Who once the D610 starts shipping will buy a D600? or I should say who will buy it at a price the seller can afford? Those poor folks are going to take a beating.

heartyfisher

Just had a peep at the D610 post on the main blog.. so it will be at the photo show in melbourne.. I was planing to go there anyway.. got my ticket and all.. should be just that little bit more fun! :-)