D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

spraynpray

@Mel: I repeat: What oil spots on the D800? There was no problem with the D800 like there is with the D600. Don't just repeat the question again, tell us why you think there is a problem with the D800 (quoting sources if possible).

sevencrossing

Yes you get spots on D800 and you will get them on the D610
If you want to eliminate dust and spots, get a 10 x 8 view camera and make contact prints

PB_PM

There is a big difference between getting spots from changing lenses over time, and getting them from inside the camera itself.

donaldejose

I have had a few oil spots and dust spots on my D800 and on my D7000. Others here have written about oil and dust spots on their D4. Some will likely appear on all DSLRs. It is just a matter of how many and how quickly and how often the sensor needs to be cleaned. The D600 just has a "dirty" part and/or an over lubricated mirror mechanism inserted into some of the bodies at time of assembly. Clean/replace that part and any dust it put into the body and the D600 should have no more dust/oil spots issue than any other DSLR.

Mel

@ spraynpray
I read Amazon reviews. Same problem like D600 but D800 has less of that oil. You clean sensor, and the oil spots are back after 50 - 1000 shots. 1000 would be ok for me, but 50 - 300 that's just no go for me.

Ironheart

@Mel,
I posted this link back on page 17 of this thread. I don't suppose you read that far back:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50059170
This link is a discussion of the oil and dust found on the sensor of the Canon 5DMIII. Point being that all DSLRs get dust and/or oil on the sensor. Do you have a question or a point?

PB_PM

@ spraynpray
I read Amazon reviews. Same problem like D600 but D800 has less of that oil. You clean sensor, and the oil spots are back after 50 - 1000 shots. 1000 would be ok for me, but 50 - 300 that's just no go for me.

I can only speak about my own D800, but there are no oil spots. A little dust, but no more than my D300 or D700 ever had.

Mel

I'm glad to hear the D800 is not that problematic, maybe i after all buy it.

According to Amazon reviews:
D800 - 11 users from 291 had oil issues on sensor (just under 4%, actually not that much)
5d mk3 - 0 users from 308 had oil issues on sensor.

spraynpray

@Mel: I question whether the 11 out of 291 users actually know the difference between oil and dust.

There is no notable problem with oil and or dust in the D800.

Photobug

Heartyfisher, terrific that you are going. Look forward to your post on the D610.

heartyfisher

Will do ! cant wait for the event ! they usually have it open to the public only on the weekend.. but this time the public can get access on all days ! will try to get in on the first day ! :-)

bbarb

i just had a call from Nikon Center, and they still cant define a day that my D600 will be ready.
They estimate about 2 weeks but they are not sure since they dont know when nikon will sent them the spare parts needed. So tomorrow i will get from them a D800 instead to work until my D600 is ready.
I have to admit once again, that local support is doing their best on that. (But again lets wait and see until i get this d800 in hands)

spraynpray

Whenever I took my Mercedes in for service they would always lend me the next model up just to get the juices flowing... :P

Did you ask them if they actually had a good D600 they could lend you?

bbarb

@spraynpray: lololololo. Good point there indeed!

I asked them to replace my D600 with a a new one, but they denied because they told me that we will again have the same issues....
When they offered to lend me a D600, i was the one who denied, and i told them, since you deny me an exchange with a new D600 because you fear that we will have again spot issues, this means that this problem is almost on all D600s, so i dont want a D600 for lend, because i am afraid to use it as much as you are afraid to exchange mine with a new one. I dont want an other 8-10K images with spots.
So we ended up with the D800.
I also asked about the D610 rumor and the reply was we dont have something official yet.

spraynpray

@bbarb: Well that is quite rare - an acknowledgement that the problem is real and is likely to affect all D600's. That is exactly the response I was angling at getting from them when I asked if they had such a thing as a good D600. Now we're getting somewhere. Out of curiosity, what country do you live in?

I reckon the D610 is going to be a great camera - they will make sure of that!

bbarb

@spraynpray: Please accept my apologies, but since the whole thing is not over yet for me, and since i plane to press charges against them if i dont have an acceptable end into this, i would like to keep it private at this moment.
Although i have to admit once again that local Nikon guys do their best to help me and support me.
Thank you for your understanding and sorry for that.

Msmoto

In other countries this may be different but the USA warranty is essentially a disclaimer, which allows Nikon the potion to replace or repair the product. And, it specifically limits itself to these actions.

Most likely if an attorney contacted Nikon they would have a way to cost the complainant much more than the camera is worth. And, then only repair the camera. The difficulty is we actually do not have any data on how many D600's have no problem. And, if Nikon demonstrates that in the period of time since introduction only 10% of the cameras have been serviced and they have met their obligation under the warranty, then no other action may be necessary on Nikon's part.

Bbarb, many of us who are life long Nikon users are saddened and upset about the D600 issues. My suggestion is to attempt to make the best via a new D600 body or possibly negotiate for a D800 at a discount while trading in the D600. Good luck in your endeavors.

spraynpray

That is good advice given by Msmoto bbarb. Only take them on if your attorney finds that you have a water-tight case. Last time I took action I had a water-tight case and so I won. The time before that, I declined to take action because my attorney advised that a vital aspect of my case was weak. You need an attorney who is a specialist in the field so you can proceed with confidence, and you should ask him/her to explain to you why you will win.

Golf007sd

+1 @ Msmoto & spraynpray comments.

bbarb

Hey Guys, thanks for those advices.
In my country which is in europe, a seller must repair, replace or full refund a defective product.
In my case now, Nikon denied to replace the product with a new one because they claim that we will have the same problems again. On the other hand they have officialy replied me that they can not fix the problem my camera has because they need those new parts-cleaning kit from Nikon Japan.
They also declined my suggestion for an upgrade into D800 with a discount, so, in the end as you can see there are no options for me.
To buy a new D800 or D800E without a discount at all, is something i will not do under those circumstances because its like forcing me into that and i will not do it. I prefer to go back into canon -or sony or watever.

Nevertheles, i dont beleive Nikon will let me down like this. They are profesionals and the Local team is really trying to support me. But at the moment they cant.

The status at this moment is that we all wait for the kit in order to permanetly fix my D600. Meanwhile they gave me a D800 to work as long as we wait the goods from Nikon.

The only case i am going to press charges on them and claim my money back or an upgrade free of charge, is if they cant fix the camera at all and at the same time do not want to replace it with a new perfectly OK one.

In that case i think the situation is 100% win for me and my lawyer also think that as well. At least in my country the law is very clear and is always above any kind of agreement or warranty documents or what ever papers companies make.
But again i consider it impossible for nikon to treat someone like that, so i strongly believe that in the end evrything will be ok.

Ade

Just thinking out loud -- unless you can convince them to let you trade up to a D800, it might be better for you to demand a full refund now, rather than waiting for them to fix your D600.

If the D610 is coming, then you can buy it with the refund. If the D610 is not coming, then you can still use the refund money to purchase a new D600 (when a reliable fix is available), or apply the funds towards a D800, or for a different camera altogether (even a Canon) -- so you lose nothing.

However, if they end up fixing your D600, then you're "stuck" with it (and its lowered resale value). No D610 or D800 for you. So in a way, it's almost better if they don't fix your D600, and to compensate you in some other way.

catfish

In other countries this may be different but the USA warranty is essentially a disclaimer, which allows Nikon the potion to replace or repair the product. And, it specifically limits itself to these actions.

Most likely if an attorney contacted Nikon they would have a way to cost the complainant much more than the camera is worth. And, then only repair the camera. The difficulty is we actually do not have any data on how many D600's have no problem. And, if Nikon demonstrates that in the period of time since introduction only 10% of the cameras have been serviced and they have met their obligation under the warranty, then no other action may be necessary on Nikon's part.

Bbarb, many of us who are life long Nikon users are saddened and upset about the D600 issues. My suggestion is to attempt to make the best via a new D600 body or possibly negotiate for a D800 at a discount while trading in the D600. Good luck in your endeavors.

@msmoto I hear what you are saying about Attorney's fees and Nikon making it painful for the customer but let me tell you @bbarb what I was told by an IBM Staff Attorney back in about 1982 when I was in marketing for IBM in the US. IBM had come out with a new small business computer it had no hard drives and used 8 inch floppy disks, it really was a nightmare to keep running both for the customer and the technical guys. One of my customers decided to bring suit against IBM. This IBM attorney and I were going out to talk to my customer and as we were driving there the conversation centered around 'What happens in these type cases' He told me, I remind you in 1982 it costs IBM $60,000 just to start a file on new litigation. I don't know how much that would be in todays dollars but I do believe that often it's in the companies best interest to strike a deal with the upset customer before it gets to that point. I would recommend that before you hire an attorney you ask the Techs at Nikon Repair that you would like this problem escalated to the highest authority possible and that you would like to meet with that person. If you get the run around at that point I would bring up the point that you intend to hire an attorney. Don't forget this man's job is to make problems go away, the folks upstairs don't want to hear about problems like this. They pay people to deal with these situations. I'm sure they are going to do something to make you happy. I have a few other tricks in my bag you may want to try before you go to the expense of hiring an attorney. It may save you money in the long run, and perhaps you'll both come out of this happy.

juliancolton

Just received a new D600 today after saving up for an affordable full frame model for the past couple years. Been shooting with a D5000 since its debut and a D60 before that, so I was really looking forward to the expanded dynamic range and low-light performance of an FX camera. 45 minutes out of the box and less than 40 shutter cycles later, at least a dozen significant spots visible on a high f-stop test frame and several visible to the naked eye at normal f-stop and shooting conditions.

I halfway expected this to be an issue, though, so I was even more dismayed when I played back some of the images and a horrid vertical line of dead pixels (multicolored in appearance, green/yellow/purple, varying in width and luminosity but always there) on every shot. I then verified it was a problem with the sensor and not the screen. Sending it back as it's of no use to me at all. I'm not looking for this to be a sob story, but I just figured it might be useful for others to hear this. Serial number starts with 307.

My plan is to hold my ground for a while and see if the D610 is a reality... if not, I may have to go all-in and buy a D800.

bbarb

Guys thank you so much for advices and efforts.
@juliancolton: ououch. That hurt. Sorry. Regarding the vertical lines i am not sure if these problems are conected.
@ade: Thank you for thinking out loud. Iagree with you 100%, i am also not that much intrested at fixing my d600, i prefer an exchange. But this is something i can not choose, but i think i can fight.
@catfish: unbelievable post. About 6 hours ago, i had a meeting with the head of customer support. I have already told him, what my plans are and my intentions. I also told him that i have already seen a lawyer, and also told him that the lawer is my cousin (which is the truth). I asked him, what he thinks of pressing charges against them, and he replied, dont worry, in the end of it you will be happy, no need for laywers.
I replied him i think i dont have other choises, and he again calmed me down, but he didnt say anything else. He just said again in the end you will be happy. He also asked if its ok for me to wait for a month in order to see what about d610. I think he might thinks for an exhange, which is fine by me.

@Catfish: please, open your bag with the tricks. I am all eyes, i think we all are. - Thank you -

catfish

@bbarb Glad to hear things are looking up for you, I kind of had a feeling that Nikon would be reasonable in the end, You may be the first person in the world to get a D610, how about that? They try to play hardball with the customers at times but many of these people you deal at the customer level with don't have the authority to do much except try to fix the problem they alone can't offer you anything and they are just telling you what they have been told. If you are unhappy escalate, escalate, escalate. Always give the guy at the bottom, the guy at the counter trying to help you compliments, "If it wasn't for James and Richard I'd have already hired the lawyer. Never expect anything more than what you have in the game(your money back or a new/different camera, Sometimes they will surprise you and give you a little more than you are asking for just for being reasonable and they realize they could have treated you better from the start.) and don't ever start yelling or threatening, you need to let them feel your pain. Sometimes the wisest thing you can say is nothing. If at the end of a meeting you don't feel they are being reasonable let them know you are unhappy and if there isn't anything more you can do for me then my only recourse is to contact my lawyer. Let them know this is not the way you wanted it to end. It will almost always work out for the customer. So did he say D610 or is that what you are guessing will happen. It's not unreasonable to expect them to do that, in the end its only a few hundred Euros instead of thousands of Euros if lawyers get involved. Well I'm very happy for you -- always remember you made that happen. Me against the big corporation. You should name your new camera "Sweet Victory" More later on some other ways that have helped me against two large US Corporations that really were being unreasonable with me. Have a great night.