Nikon D610 discussion

Ironheart

Fair enough. The D600 has 353 days in the top 100 and is number 22 and rising on the amazon best sellers list, so it is at least doing well. Back on topic, the D610 will likely sell even better if they do even half of the stuff folks are talking bout here.

PB_PM

It will be interesting to see what they will do, no doubt about it. For existing D600 owners it would be tough sell, unless the AF system is improved.

spraynpray

I've never seen so many wild assumptions on one thread here before. Nobody knows what the system is for Nikon serial numbers so to guess what sales have taken place in ALL of the world from that info alone is nonsense.

While I am writing a consequence (good or bad) of the zero communication from Nikon is that we don't know the fault or the field-failure data so guessing 10% or 90% is a waste of screen space. Donald is very pro the D600 because he has a (the?) good one, others aren't so happy.

All I know is that I think it is a mess, Nikon had better have learnt from it and finally we are all talking about D600's on the D610 thread! :-))

sevencrossing

we don't know the fault or the field-failure data

Very true

but we do know a lot of the naysayers on the forum do not actually own one

The major retailers should have a pretty good idea

and if the failure rate was as high as 10%, I don't think they would continue to stock the D600

spraynpray

'Naysayers'? Does that mean people who don't like the way Nikon has treated their customers over the D600 saga? Also, I didn't realise that in order to state an opinion on this thread you actually had to own a D600 :-))

Retailers will sell whatever makes them margin - it looks like the D600 started flying off the shelves and giving them a nice margin, problems then occurred and they were happy to continue to take margin and let Nikon deal with the after sales hit. One dealer went so far as to tell me that they didn't get problems anymore and that was BS. If he had said they get problems but with only a few cameras, he would have raised doubts in my mind, but he wasn't a good actor and obviously lied to me.

csphoto

Quite simply the D610 needs to not only fix the oil issue of the D600 but also add the features of the D7100 that are missing (51pt AF, 1/8000, flash comp, 1/2 EV steps (not as big a deal as others), 1/250 sync speed). Sure there are certainly some other features that would be nice but at least make it comparable to their DX body

smadman

@csphoto, the D600 already allows the user to choose between 1/3 & 1/2 EV steps.

KnockKnock

Those Coscto sales are significant. Their whole reason for existence is high-volume sales. I'm guessing fewer of those come back than the those sold to B&H clientele.

donaldejose

I don't think I have the only good D600. Perhaps 90% are good, maybe 95%? There must be more than 98 users who do not complain for every two who do complain speculating on the number of people who actually own and use one compared to the number of people who own one and complain about it (not counting those who complain without owning one because other people are complaining - they tend to magnify the perceived issue). Of course this is speculation as to the percentages. Also, it is possible many D600 users do have a dust/oil spot issue and don't I think it is one unclean (dust or grindings) part plus an over lubricated mirror mechanism (perhaps more common in cameras designed with longer lasting shutters) combined with high megapixes sensors which likely show dust and oil better. More of a flaw in manufacturing execution than a flaw in design. I keep posting as a "cheerleader" for the D600 for two reasons: 1. To provide balance and 2. So those who are willing to clean their own sensor may be willing to give the D600 a chance, especially if the price "drops like a rock" on the used ones and all they really need is someone willing to do frequent cleanings until all the excess dust/oil is out. It could possibly become and FX body for less than $1,000.

Certainly Nikon should "fix" the cameras with problems. Maybe once the D610 is out and D600 production stops, Nikon will allow those unhappy with their D600 to return it for a new D610 (plus a small amount of money). That would be nice. Maybe mine will start to spew lots of dust/oil spots and then I too will become a D600 basher. Meanwhile, I am trying to simply report my experience truthfully. 7,484 exposures now and no new spots appearing.

MikeGunter

Hi all,

@ donaldejose :-)

You're too good an attorney to use any numbers in making your argument. You've no more an idea than I do what the numbers are. :-)

Guessing and speculating are straw man tactics - good for your client - but I'll call you out and object.

My best,

Mike

Elvishefer

It's probably safe to assume there will be a fire sale on D600s once the D610 is released.

Retailers won't want D600s in inventory, given their reputation (real or imagined), so I'm guessing they'd want to move on as fast as possible.

Nikon would likely look positively at the volume over value play on the remaining D600s, so I'd imagine they'd give their blessing on continued price reductions, bundles, etc. to move them.

It will make Nikon's FX market share look better for the quarter.

PB_PM

I don't think I have the only good D600. Perhaps 90% are good, maybe 95%?

Mass produced consumer electronics have a mean failure rate of 10-15% on average, so thinking that 90-95% are fine could be a little high.

donaldejose

Mike and PB-PM: What is the source of my numbers. Well, of course it is speculation not actual data. If you recall I have asked before if anyone had any data. He is how I got my estimate. How many people are complaining of excessive spots showing up in less than 1,000 exposures? Less than 50 individuals if you count all the complaints on the various Nikon user sites. Maybe 100? Maybe there are 10 with the problem not complaining for every one who does post a complaint. That would give us 500 to 1,000 cameras with a serious problem. Now how many D600 bodies have been sold? Maybe 100,000 or maybe 600,000? 1,000 complaints per 100,000 bodies is a 99% "success" rate. If there were 10,000 people complaining the boards would surely have much more traffic. If there were 10,000 problem cameras and 600,000 sold the "success" rate is still 98%. Of course, I don't know that numbers. All I can do is guess. But still just count up how many people are complaining on the various Nikon user boards and compare that to how many have been purchased without complaints. You have to be struck with the serious possibility that the issue is being exaggerated.

kpatel55

What I Wants to see:
1. Better Body - At least like D7100
2. Better Auto focus - At Least like D7100
3. Dust/Oil Issue completely resolved.
4. Better Frame Rate and Buffer.

juliancolton

How many people are complaining of excessive spots showing up in less than 1,000 exposures?

I know this isn't saying much but it's probably worth noting that I purchased a brand new D600 this week and it had significant oil spots inside of 50 shutter cycles. The extent of the problem may be occasionally overstated, but the individual symptoms are very much a real concern.

tc88

Donaldjose, sorry I have to poke fun at your lawyering arguments.

What you said is called spin. If you really believed your arguments, then you should also argue the fail rate is 99% since there are probably less than 500 good reviews.

The couple people I'm aware of using D600 all got refurbished ones. They all like the DR, but hate the spots. And I thought some people claimed refurbished ones pass special quality checks?

spraynpray

@Donaldjose: Give it up man: Could be 90 or 95% good? Could be 90-95% bad! I agree and applaud you posting for balance but at this stage the scales have a pea one side (you and Ton) and a bag of cement the other side (everybody else that has posted)! :-*

But if you wanted to sell yours.......

newfoundlander61

A D610 less the oil changes would be nice.

donaldejose

julian: so sorry and sad to hear of your experience. There just is no excuse for any newly manufactured D600 bodies to still be spewing excess spots the first 50 shutter actuations! Nikon really had dropped the ball in not finding the issue and fixing it on the assembly line. Certainly, there cannot be a generic problem because Nikon produces so many other DSLRs without the issue. It must be a "dirty" part or "overlube" technique on the assembly line and Nikon should have remedied that issue long ago. Very maddening.

spraynpray: I am keeping a tight grip on mine now that I seem to have gotten all the dust out! I only wish others were as successful. But time will tell, maybe my spots will return.

tc88: I think refurbished ones just have a sensor cleaning and are sent back out the door "factory spec" and do not get not the deep cleaning or parts replacement which may be needed.

As to the lawyer issue: Even a guilty person deserves a decent defense so they are not railroaded or convicted without sufficient evidence to do so. Nikon's handling of the D600 issue has been awful. However, it is also fair to not paint all D600 bodies as "guilty by association." There is a failure rate and there is a success rate. Two different sides of the same coin. Apparently, some D600s never have a dust problem. Apparently, some can be solved with a few cleanings (like mine maybe?). And apparently some spew so much dust over so few shots that they are unreliable for a single photo shoot and therefore unusable for their intended purpose. Those bodies are defective products which should be replaced with a D610 no questions asked. I think Nikon should do a free cleaning once or twice keeping track of the exposures and if the body comes back a third time within a reasonable number of exposures it should be replaced with a D610.

Photobug

donaldejose said
And apparently some spew so much dust over so few shots that they are unreliable for a single photo shoot and therefore unusable for their intended purpose. Those bodies are defective products which should be replaced with a D610 no questions asked. I think Nikon should do a free cleaning once or twice keeping track of the exposures and if the body comes back a third time within a reasonable number of exposures it should be replaced with a D610.

Having been tied to manufacturing for all of my working years, your suggestion about free cleaning is an excellent idea. Like the three step process. A very good suggestion.

[Deleted User]

I want magic lantern type features! raw video!

Prolly wont get what I want but since we are all just playing here.

Ironheart

Check out the following:
http://nikonrumors.com/2013/07/06/nikon-d7000-hacked-to-record-liveview-raw-video.aspx/
http://nikonhacker.com/
They need donations of cameras to continue hacking. What a great use for the worst D600s :-)

kanuck

I just traded in my D600 + $1600 and finally got my D800e back that I had to sell last year because of my now finished graduate studies. The store owner said I was lucky because the value of the D600 will drop even more dramatically than it already has in recent months. I asked him if it was because of the impending release of the D610, and he just smiled at me.

SquamishPhoto

I just traded in my D600 + $1600 and finally got my D800e back that I had to sell last year because of my now finished graduate studies. The store owner said I was lucky because the value of the D600 will drop even more dramatically than it already has in recent months. I asked him if it was because of the impending release of the D610, and he just smiled at me.

Nicely done. I can only imagine how pleasing it must be to have your camera back. And congrats on completing your studies. :]

Photobug

Check the main posting that the MAP price for the D600 and D5100 have been removed. Prices from the dealers and mail order are headed down. This is further support of the introduction of a D610. Too bad it maybe January before we see them.