D300s Successor-D400, what and when

PB_PM

Agreed. If there is a D400 it will be a D800 body with a DX sensor. I like the ability to remove the grip for the times that a more compact body is ideal (traveling).

Paperman

Imagine Japanese Nikon engineers are following this thread to figure out what design is best for the D400 ... Checking consumer requests etc ... Poor guys ; they have to revise drawings 4 times a day. :-)
Maybe if we just hold still for a few days .... they may be able to finalize something :-)

PB_PM

How so? We have talked about what the D400 would be like if it was a full sized (D4) like body, but most seem to conclude and believe a body in the D300 form factor would be best.

heartyfisher

How many times do we have to cover this? DX does not give more reach. (

LOL! No one believes you :-) file it under the DX fIles !

spraynpray

Hey Andrewz - cut that out and leave us to our madness! We don't need no sensible people here spoilin' the mood... :P

Kuv

Do you guys really think that there is anything in the D4 that costs Nikon close to 6k? Trust me, the body isn't that expensive. They put a huge price on the "best" body because most of the top pros basically have money to burn on camera gear (the D3X had nothing on the D800, but it still cost more). Trust me, more buffer (RAM) costs next to nothing nowadays, and using the molds they have for the D4 would save them more money than they would spend on extra magnesium for the grip ($3/kg!!!). If they wanted, they could easily put all that into the D400 and keep the price at 2200-2300.

ChromiumPrime

Well said Kuv.

donaldejose

Andrewz: Odds are the D400 will be to the D800 as the D300 was to the D700. We will get the D800 body with a DX sensor and upgraded internal bits for about $2,000. The battery grip will be a separate item costing about $300. But thinking about that is no fun. It is more interesting to be creative and think up other possibilities even though they are much less likely to occur. If we do get an all new metal body with a built in vertical grip, some (maybe many) people will be posting complaints and others will rave about it.

ChromiumPrime

So, you want something that looks kinda like a smallish D4 but with some plastic parts to save on cost and only a modest buffer, modest AF module?

Was that what I said that?

PB_PM

Do you guys really think that there is anything in the D4 that costs Nikon close to 6k? Trust me...

Why should we trust you, when what you say makes no sense? Yes, because when you buy a camera you are only paying for the parts, oh wait you're not. You are also paying for the designers, the thousands of engineering hours put into it, software/firmware designers, testers, the manufacturing process, marketing, distributing, and all the other R&D involved. A product like the D4 likely costs 4-5 hundred million (or more) to develop. I doubt Nikon breaks even for 6 months to a year after release. So yeah, it does cost that much. Everything you see in lower end models comes from the development of the high end models, even if it doesn't show up there first.

Andrewz

Yes... and not to mention that the D4 is basicly hand built in Japan where labor cost are much higher than where the other camera are manufactured on a huge scale.

donaldejose

Sure guys but once Nikon recoups its development costs by selling the D4 for a year or two it then it has only the price of the parts as the cost of using those parts in another camera and it can assemble them where labor costs are much less. As long as putting those same, or very similar parts, into a DX sensor camera will not take sales away from the D4, Nikon could use the magnesium body of the D4 for a D400 and sell it for a much lower cost. However, I don't expect them to do so. I think the only two options are to use a D800 body and (much less likely) to create a new body with built in battery grip.

spraynpray

No Donald - never mind the 'after a year or two' bit, using the same parts on multiple products helps payback too.

A D400 in a D4 body with all the bonkers fps autofocus and buffer from a D4 would be a weapon alright, but for sure you could forget $2000 or even $3000 for it!

Andrewz

Yes Donald Nikon could manufacture the D4 where ever they want but they don't. The profit margin on these highend camera isn't as great as people think. The real money is made in the point and shoot market and the low end DSLR.

Msmoto

@Andrewz

I will take mine that way as well. Then add the grip.

On a D4, there is an entire menu and LCD in the bottom and this is no doubt expensive for Nikon to produce.....or they just know we will buy them...

ChromiumPrime

Why should we trust you, when what you say makes no sense?

Canon 1D X: $6,000
Canon 1D C: $12,000

Difference?

Heat sink, firmware and, of course, $6,000.

Source: http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/01/inside-the-canon-eos-1d-c/

PB_PM

And are we talking about Canon.... ???? We are talking about the price of the D4, are we not?

ChromiumPrime

Camera manufacturing...

If you think Nikon and Canon are that different when it comes to manufacturing and pricing, well...

PB_PM

You are talking about two cameras in different classes, but if you want to make silly arguments lets go.

1D X 1080p video
1D C 4k video (new development path) along with the other items you already mentioned.

Are those differences worth $6000? I'm not a camera designer, but I'm betting Canon put a lot of money in developing the 4k video output.

ChromiumPrime

Ok, let's go with the silly arguments then...

But first did you even bother to read CR's article? There is no reason why 1D X can't produce 4k video other than firmware limitations.

Your argument: Heat sink and firmware is worth $6,000 per unit.
My argument: Canon (and Nikon) price their products based on how much the market is prepared to pay and not the base worth of the individual components. In other words, basic supply and demand.

PB, didn't you and I have a more or less similar argument (discussion) about pricing and manufacturing of FX cameras just before the D600 rumors started churning?... we all know how that turned out, don't we? )

PB_PM

I don't recall in detail any argument over the D600. What I do remember is guessing that the D600 would be in the$1999-$2199 price bracket months before the release, while 95% of people here were guessing $1499.

No I don't bother reading Canon rumor sites. I did not say firmware and a heatsink were worth $6000. Try read my posts before putting words in my mouth. /:) To quote myself "new development path" for the 1D C. To me that means, a different development team. So, body aside and a number of parts aside, it was built from scratch. I'm assuming it has a different sensor, larger buffer, and much faster processor in order to support 4K video.

Lets not waste any more time talking about Canon.

donaldejose

Msmoto: Right about the LCD and menu at the bottom of the D4. It adds too much cost to be on a D400. Thus, if Nikon were to produce a D400 with a built in battery grip it would eliminate the bottom LCD and just make a new body with the parts for the battery grip already installed. Most likely we will see what we always have seen: a separate battery grip.

ChromiumPrime

I distinctly remember a certain group of people insisting that an FX camera could not possibly be done for under $3,000 because an FX sensor alone would cost at least $2,000... but I guess it's all ancient history now :-j

I'm assuming it has a different sensor, larger buffer, and much faster processor in order to support 4K video.

No it doesn't. That was the whole point of my post and the link to CR but you couldn't be bothered to read it #-o

Seriously though PB, sometimes I'm not sure if you truly intend to discuss and debate or if you just argue for the sake of arguing. If you even just glanced at the article, we wouldn't even be here now. Just saying...

Msmoto

Waiting for the D400 can be exasperating....and it appears the results are the discussion about anything....

I hope Nikon does something within the next few months. Is there a photo show coming up soon?

PB_PM

Seriously though PB, sometimes I'm not sure if you truly intend to discuss and debate or if you just argue for the sake of arguing. If you even just glanced at the article, we wouldn't even be here now. Just saying...

Think what you like. Most of the time I think some people here are not smart enough to be talking about half the stuff that they are, but that doesn't seem to stop them does it? Oh, just saying...

I did glance at the "article" if that is what you want to call it. Looks more like an opinion piece, with no photos of the motherboards or anything else to back it up.