D850

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  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,745Member
    I will speculate that the D810 replacement will have a sensor which is more than 50 mp, the same Expeed processor as in the D5, the same new focusing system as in the D5, the same two memory cards as in the D5 and will be announced late this year.
    I guess that means two options if you are correct. Dual XQD or Dual Compact FLash.
  • starralaznstarralazn Posts: 204Member
    It couldn't follow the D500?
  • paulrpaulr Posts: 1,176Member
    With the announcement of so many new cameras and other Nikon add-ons , Nikon have left the gate wide open for the New D8xxxx which surly will have a very high pixel count.Lets hope it is better developed that the Canon version with a low light capability and faster FPS. That would put Nikon clearly in the number one spot, with Canon users looking over their shoulders.
    Looks like Nikon are serious in 2016, about Photographic Development.
    Camera, Lens and Tripod and a few other Bits
  • retreadretread Posts: 574Member
    .... Nikon have left the gate wide open for the New D8xxxx which surly will have a very high pixel count....
    If this would be a DX version of the D810 it would be another "awesome twosome".

  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,716Member
    I should amend my prediction about the update to the D810. Nikon may decide to go with two different memory cards as they have done in the D500. However, since it is surely going to have more than 50 mpixels I would think Nikon would go to the fastest memory technology available today which means two XQD cards.
  • haroldpharoldp Posts: 984Member
    I think you are right, and that it is a mistake.

    Today the fastest XQD are about 400 mbs, and the fastest SD UHS II are about 300 mbs (and about half the price, and fit readers and other camera's etc.). I doubt that either the D5, D500, or next gen d8nn / D9nn can write as fast as either of them.

    XQD is produced today only by Sony (mostly for their pro high res video business), and Lexar, and used in still camera's only By Nikon. There is buzz that Lexar's XQD are problems in some Sony vidcams, I do not know how accurate that is.

    With buffer depths in the 200 range on these camera's, I do not see any real advantage to XQD in either sports, wildlife or news / PJ work. Even the fastest CF cards at about 150 mbs would suffice to asynchronously drain the buffer and 300 mbs SD UHS II certainly would.

    It will be astonishingly easy to orphan this format in the next 2-5 years.

    Remember the sage advice in 'Back to the Future', 'You will reach an important decision point, do not choose 8 track' (or Betamax).

    I think they should adopt Sony's memory stick instead.

    ... H
    D810, D3x, 14-24/2.8, 50/1.4D, 24-70/2.8, 24-120/4 VR, 70-200/2.8 VR1, 80-400 G, 200-400/4 VR1, 400/2.8 ED VR G, 105/2 DC, 17-55/2.8.
    Nikon N90s, F100, F, lots of Leica M digital and film stuff.

  • Having a Nikon 100MP DSLR with enough resolution to retire my 4x5 camera, along with a fully automatic upgrade of the 85mm f2.8 PC-E and a knockout new 50mm f1.4 would make my day. I am sure it would be significantly cheaper then the MF alternatives. I am not expecting MF from Nikon. The target market is to thin.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    I think you are right, and that it is a mistake.

    Today the fastest XQD are about 400 mbs, and the fastest SD UHS II are about 300 mbs (and about half the price, and fit readers and other camera's etc.). I doubt that either the D5, D500, or next gen d8nn / D9nn can write as fast as either of them.

    XQD is produced today only by Sony (mostly for their pro high res video business), and Lexar, and used in still camera's only By Nikon. There is buzz that Lexar's XQD are problems in some Sony vidcams, I do not know how accurate that is.

    With buffer depths in the 200 range on these camera's, I do not see any real advantage to XQD in either sports, wildlife or news / PJ work. Even the fastest CF cards at about 150 mbs would suffice to asynchronously drain the buffer and 300 mbs SD UHS II certainly would.

    It will be astonishingly easy to orphan this format in the next 2-5 years.

    Remember the sage advice in 'Back to the Future', 'You will reach an important decision point, do not choose 8 track' (or Betamax).

    I think they should adopt Sony's memory stick instead.

    ... H
    According to Nikon:
    "The D5 lets you select your preference—dual XQD card slots or dual Compact Flash slots. The XQD format is designed to take advantage of the speed that the D5 can offer photographers. For instance, the Nikon D5 can shoot at 12 frames per second and can record up to 200 NEF (RAW) and/or Large JPEG images during one high-speed burst. For photographers shooting sports, action and other fast paced events or 4K UHD video, it is vital to have a media card format that can keep up with the camera. XQD is the solution."

    Suggesting that CF cant keep up, and it needs XQD to go full speed.
  • haroldpharoldp Posts: 984Member
    I have no doubt that the XQD is potentially faster.

    What I am questioning is the importance to real photography of the difference.

    With buffers in the 100 frame range, a 300 mbs sd UHSII card can write about 10 frames/sec. (lossless compressed) giving a burst capacity of about 160-170 frames.

    CF cards at 150 mbs will probably drop that to about 130-140.

    While we could postulate situations where a 200 frame burst gets the shot and a 150 is not enough, it would be the extreme edge of conditions. I am doing this for 50 years and have done journalism, sports, wildlife including BIF and have never come close to such a situation.

    For BIF, the 30-40 frame burst of the D810 did make a real difference over the D800 at about half, where I was missing shots, but with the D810 and 95 mbs cards, I have never run short. The D5 and D500 at least double that capacity with any flash card.
    D810, D3x, 14-24/2.8, 50/1.4D, 24-70/2.8, 24-120/4 VR, 70-200/2.8 VR1, 80-400 G, 200-400/4 VR1, 400/2.8 ED VR G, 105/2 DC, 17-55/2.8.
    Nikon N90s, F100, F, lots of Leica M digital and film stuff.

  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,494Member
    edited January 2016
    @haroldp Is right, in the technology world the best technology does not always win over the most cost effective. Why, most consumers want things cheap, and SD is cheap, which is why it won out over CF in most devices. Just look at the history, almost all the early digital cameras (around 1999-2003) used CF cards (and micro drives), but slowly but surely the SD standard has been eating away and killing CF.

    That said, he's wrong too. Just because it is not important today, doesn't mean manufactures shouldn't move to a better standard, which will better support future endeavours. Anyway, the D500 has XQD and SD, you can bet the D810 replacement will have XQD and SD. CF needs to have it's final death blows, and if it comes now I won't shed a tear.

    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,745Member
    One difference it could make, if they speed up just a bit, which they undoubtedly will as faster versions come out, is eliminate the need for much of a buffer. Not sure of the economics of that though. SD cards are likely more costly than the marginal cost of more buffer space.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,494Member
    The memory used in a cameras buffer is much faster the flash memory in SD, XQD, CF etc, which is why it is always preferable to have a bigger buffer.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,745Member
    Sure, but if the card empties the buffer faster than shooting at maximum continuous can fill it up, what is the point of having a buffer that can hold more than 3 or 4 raw files?
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,494Member
    You do realize the buffer is used for more than transferring images from the camera to the card right? It is also used as temporary storage while the files are going through in camera processing. If the buffer wasn't big enough you'd loose images before they even reached the card.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,745Member
    That is why I proposed it be big enough for 3 or 4 raw files. Whatever the size required to do all that, it would not need to be much bigger.
  • SnowleopardSnowleopard Posts: 244Member
    edited January 2016
    The only way XQD will stick around is if the price of the cards come down, and 3rd party manufacturers don't want to pay Sony royalties for the new card format..... Kinda the same reason HDMI continues to be over priced.... and Display Port is cheap.

    But we are all stuck with HDMI on our tv's.
    Post edited by Snowleopard on
    ||COOLPIX 5000|●|D70|●|D700|●|D810|●|AF-S NIKKOR 14-24mm f/2.8G ED|●|AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D|●|AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D|●|AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4G|●|AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D|●|AF-S Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED|●|AF-S VR Zoom-NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED (Silver)|●|AF-S Teleconverter TC-20E III|●|PB-6 Bellows|●|EL-NIKKOR 50mm f/2.8||
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 993Member
    edited January 2016
    I think you are right, and that it is a mistake.

    Today the fastest XQD are about 400 mbs, and the fastest SD UHS II are about 300 mbs (and about half the price, and fit readers and other camera's etc.). I doubt that either the D5, D500, or next gen d8nn / D9nn can write as fast as either of them.

    XQD is produced today only by Sony (mostly for their pro high res video business), and Lexar, and used in still camera's only By Nikon. There is buzz that Lexar's XQD are problems in some Sony vidcams, I do not know how accurate that is.

    With buffer depths in the 200 range on these camera's, I do not see any real advantage to XQD in either sports, wildlife or news / PJ work. Even the fastest CF cards at about 150 mbs would suffice to asynchronously drain the buffer and 300 mbs SD UHS II certainly would.

    It will be astonishingly easy to orphan this format in the next 2-5 years.

    Remember the sage advice in 'Back to the Future', 'You will reach an important decision point, do not choose 8 track' (or Betamax).

    I think they should adopt Sony's memory stick instead.

    ... H
    According to Nikon:
    "The D5 lets you select your preference—dual XQD card slots or dual Compact Flash slots. The XQD format is designed to take advantage of the speed that the D5 can offer photographers. For instance, the Nikon D5 can shoot at 12 frames per second and can record up to 200 NEF (RAW) and/or Large JPEG images during one high-speed burst. For photographers shooting sports, action and other fast paced events or 4K UHD video, it is vital to have a media card format that can keep up with the camera. XQD is the solution."

    Suggesting that CF cant keep up, and it needs XQD to go full speed.
    Yes, I think I read that you can shoot maximum 85 raw images in one burst on a CF D5, but 200 on an XQD D5. And Nikon can convert a D5 from CF to XQD for a fee.
    Post edited by snakebunk on
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,494Member
    $10 for gold plated connector equipped HDMI cable is expensive? Don't base cable prices on overhyped brands like "Monster"! Display port is not cheaper.

    Yes we know XQD won't take off, even though it should. Then again the argument you made didn't stop Blue-ray from beating HD-DVD so...
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 993Member
    How do we know that XQD won't take off?
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,494Member
    edited January 2016
    That is why I proposed it be big enough for 3 or 4 raw files. Whatever the size required to do all that, it would not need to be much bigger.
    If you are shooting 50+MB 14bit lossless RAW files at 5-6FPS like the D810 can, your going to need more space than for "3 or 4 raw files". The files from the successor will be even larger, say 70-90MB per file. The buffer would have to push 420MB/s to 540MB/s to keep up. Even if the buffer was that fast, there are no SD cards that can come close, or XQD cards for that matter. In a few years, maybe, but not now.

    The thing is a D810 successor will likely come this year, in the June-September time period.
    How do we know that XQD won't take off?
    Lets see, it has been on the market for 4 years now and there are exactly 4 cameras that use it (D4, D4s, D5 and D500). None of those cameras are in general the consumer space, so it is not very likely for XQD to take off. Now if XQD shows up in sub-$999 cameras maybe, but until then it's a niche product.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 993Member
    @PB_PM: Can't it be that CF and SD have been good enough up until now? If not XQD, what do you think is the card of the future?
  • mikealruskovmikealruskov Posts: 22Member
    edited January 2016
    I will speculate that the D810 replacement will have a sensor which is more than 50 mp, the same Expeed processor as in the D5, the same new focusing system as in the D5, the same two memory cards as in the D5 and will be announced late this year.
    I highly doubt Nikon will release 3 professional bodies in one year, but maybe I'm just pessimistic.

    With the underwhelming cropped 4K recording on the D5 and D500, I'm giving Nikon one last chance with the D820 to bring proper 4K recording (non cropped with decent recording times). Combining a truly great video and stills camera would position Nikon with an enormously important product that could sway many people away from Canon. However I feel like Nikon have never been motivated to take a stake in the video market. If the D820 doesn't have professional recording capability I think I'll end up with a D810 and just buy a GH4 for video. I'm really tired of waiting for a DSLR with 4K.
    Post edited by mikealruskov on
    D7000, Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8G, 50mm 1.8G, 135mm f/2 DC, 300mm f/4E PF
  • jdphoto77jdphoto77 Posts: 7Member
    Whenever the D810 replacement gets released I'm pretty excited. Better AF, radio flash system, better skin tones, probably higher resolution, 4k video (don't care if it's cropped or not), better rear screen, and potentially a higher frame rate. I'd upgrade for the first two or three reasons alone as weddings are a big part of my shooting. Hopefully it's this year, but I'm not complaining with the D810 as it is doing a great job for me right now. Just hope I can keep my same battery grips.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,716Member
    edited January 2016
    A D810 upgrade this year should be easy for Nikon to do. They already have the new processor, focusing system, LCD, software, and other internals from the D5. All they really need is a new 50+ megapixel image sensor. Nikon developed two new sensors, one for the D5 and one for the D500. If they have one for the D810 replacement it will be easy for them to announce and produce that body this year. I think they will. It will give them a good market advantage over Canon if they can have three bodies with the best AF system you can buy in a DSLR. I should add that there is a story to tell about those two new sensors which is as of yet untold. Who made them? Are they backside illuminated which accounts for the better high ISO advertized?
    Post edited by donaldejose on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,545Moderator
    "The best AF system you can buy in a DSLR." I would like to think you are right, but I think the 7D2 takes some beating so we will have to see how the D500 fares in the head-to-heads.
    Always learning.
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