D850

spraynpray

It is a real annoyance. His camera completes multiple exposures for noise averaging quickly and quietly whereas my D750 or D7100 are slow and noisy. When you are shooting a 10 shot pano of 7 shots each to process, it is a real pain.

donaldejose

WestEndPhoto: go to the main NR blog and view the video. All lenses which are good at 42 mp can take advantage of pixel shifting because Sony simply shifts the sensor one pixel in many directions to create 4 42mp files and then combines them. So you don't need sharper lenses to produce that huge file. Seems like it may be a brilliant idea to me but you have to have a subject that does not move. I wonder how fast such a 4 image burst can be shot on the new Sony? Since it is mirrorless it may be able to take 4 images very fast.

Capt_Spaulding

It will take me a while to wrap my head around just how the image shifted 160+mp file is "better" that a single 42. Until then, it seems to me the focus stacking offered by D850 is the more attractive option.

donaldejose

Capt_Spaulding: please view the Sony video on the main NR blog which shows examples. There is a clear improvement in the images side by side.

tc88

I always wondered how reliable pixel shift is when the camera gets old. Seems it's very difficult to mechanically move exactly 1 pixel (which is what 0.005mm?) precisely. All mechanical stuff wear out over time. Can it still maintain the precision after 2years usage? Heck, it could already be out of tolerance by the time it arrived at your door with the way B&H and Amazon packaging cameras these days.

Vipmediastar_JZ

donaldejose said:

Did Nikon screw up by putting vibration control in lenses instead of in the camera body?

I say 50/50. Some lens I have dont have vr but would have been nice if they did. Also, with lack of VR in body is what allows us to keep using ai-s lens in modern bodies?

WestEndFoto

I am sure that there is an improvement with a lens that out resolves a 42 megapixel sensor, say at f5.6, but if a lens maxes out at 60 megapixels, then a sensor with 160 megapixels is going to resolve 100 megapixels of mush.

But I will watch the video. I bet there is some improvement on a sharp lens and that is certainly welcome. But I am pretty skeptical of anything over 60 or so.

donaldejose

WestEndFoto: the sensor does not have 160mp. It is a combining of four images to improve detail sort of like focus stacking combines many images to improve depth of field or stitching together many images in a panorama increases megapixels. Maybe? I don't know how well it works or how long the tolerances needed will last but it seems like a good idea, if it works. I think Pentax had something similar a few years ago?

Sports

With a regular 40 MP sensor, you get 10 MP of red, 10 MP of blue, and 20 MP of green, spread in a 40 MP pattern. So, it's open for discussion if that should really be called a 10 MP sensor or a 40 MP sensor or what?

With the Sony sensor shift, you get 40 MP of red, 40 MP of blue, and 40 MP of green, but it's still a 40 MP pattern.
So because it's all based on the classic 2x2 bayer filter, it doesn't take a "160 MP lens" to get a sharp image. 40 MP of resolving power will do. If Sony made their sensor shift smaller steps than this, they WOULD need sharper lenses.

To me, it sounds like the sensor shift can record colors of micro details much better - colors have a higher resolution. A photo of something grey, on the other hand, would have the same 40 MP resolution on both sensors.

Ok, I'm just wondering now, do I understand any of this correctly??

donaldejose

Sports: Watch the video on the main blog and look at the examples. Even gray is better.

PB_PM

donaldejose said:

Sony keeps coming up with some great technology. The just announced A7rIII pixel shift technology can produce a 169.6 mp file.

It's the same tech Olympus used in the OM-D EM1 MKII when it came out a year or so ago, nothing new or revolutionary from Sony.

WestEndFoto said:

And which Sony lens (or even Canon or Nikon lens) is going to be able to take advantage of that resolution?

It's just a bunch of photos auto stitched to make one image, so that's not an issue.

Ton14

Take 4 photo's, at night, by hand in C mode.
Here it was 1/125 at f/2.8 ISO 3200, Nikon D600, 85mm f/1.8 lens

Load files as stack in Photoshop (Files - Script)
- Attempt to automatically Align (on)
- Create Smart Object after loading Layers (on)
Press OK and done.

Here you do the pixelshift yourself.
You can see the noise improvement.
No editing at all, but if you want, you can do stuff before loading in Photoshop, in all the photo's at once in Lightroom or so.

Hasselblad, Pentax, Olympus and maybe more has it.

snakebunk

Sports said:

With a regular 40 MP sensor, you get 10 MP of red, 10 MP of blue, and 20 MP of green, spread in a 40 MP pattern. So, it's open for discussion if that should really be called a 10 MP sensor or a 40 MP sensor or what?

With the Sony sensor shift, you get 40 MP of red, 40 MP of blue, and 40 MP of green, but it's still a 40 MP pattern.
So because it's all based on the classic 2x2 bayer filter, it doesn't take a "160 MP lens" to get a sharp image. 40 MP of resolving power will do. If Sony made their sensor shift smaller steps than this, they WOULD need sharper lenses.

To me, it sounds like the sensor shift can record colors of micro details much better - colors have a higher resolution. A photo of something grey, on the other hand, would have the same 40 MP resolution on both sensors.

Ok, I'm just wondering now, do I understand any of this correctly??

This is how I understand it to. With regular Bayer sensors each pixel records only one color (red, blue or green) and the raw file has to be interpreted to get an image with aproximated color information in each pixel. But with this new pixel shift technology, when you move around the sensor you can get full color information in each pixel, kind of like you get with the Sigma Foveon sensors. So I think this is more about image and color quality than resolution.

Vipmediastar_JZ

I set my standby timers to 10-2mins or default. However if Leave the camera on it doesn't go into standby mode. Can you guys check into yours? There's many reports of battery drainage and I'm wondering if their cameras are not going into standby.

tc88

I checked both my D850 and another old one. I set to 30s, after that, the aperture/shutter values seem to go off. I suppose the metering and any related real time computations are off then. But otherwise, the rest of the top displays are on for both cameras. I suppose that's normal? That's the extent of my testing. If the battery drains, I think the first thing to check should be the airplane mode that should be "on".

Vipmediastar_JZ

Thanks @tc88 for checking. It seems like my is normal then. I did get up to 500 shots the first run of the battery with airplane mode enabled. That does include menu changes, liveview shooting with touch to focus, testing different modes of af and focus peaking. Lets hope the next battery run gets me close to advertised levels.

BVS

Vipmediastar_JZ said:

Thanks @tc88 for checking. It seems like my is normal then. I did get up to 500 shots the first run of the battery with airplane mode enabled. That does include menu changes, liveview shooting with touch to focus, testing different modes of af and focus peaking. Lets hope the next battery run gets me close to advertised levels.

I remember reading about people having issues with the D500 battery draining quickly on first use too. Reportedly it had something to do with the camera sucking the battery to charge some other internal battery or something, and once that was charged the battery lasted much longer. Could be something similar maybe?

Pistnbroke

Intereesting point almost made by Angry photographer ..Is the blackout using silent mode because the EN EL 15 battery is not quite up to the job of powering the display and running the buffer. Hence the grip with the larger battery. anybody got the grip and is the blackout the same with it fitted?

WestEndFoto

When the grip arrives I can test that. But the grips are scarce and I have been in line since early September. I have just got on the NPS program and even that is not helping.

PB_PM

In the past the issue was battery voltage. When you used AA batteries or the pro level batteries in older models (D300, D700, D800) there was improvement in blackout times for non-live view shooting. Never checked if it made any difference for live view.

Msmoto

I can feel that this camera may be somewhere in my future.... with all the discussion, must be pretty darn good.... or so all my friends who have one are saying.

WestEndFoto

There are only a few things that currently exist that can be done to make it better, such as give it a D5 body with the few professional features that it does not already possess. Eg. Audio note recording

Msmoto

The review on the main blog is pretty interesting....

Pistnbroke

Having looked at reports on the 850 this is where I am for wedding photography.
1/You need to make a profit so at the price + grip+ battery its too expensive given the state of the british wedding market.
2/ With the choice of lenses available 36 v 46 MP will not enhance customer appreciation. The only usable wedding lens is the 28-300
3/ Described as the noisyest Nikon ever made due to the metal frame and the black out time makes the sillent mode useless
4/ Power hungry..seems to be an issue with it cutting out at low battery levels to prevent damage to the mirror mech hence the larger grip battery
5/ Needs expensive XQD cards...Profit again ..I only run at 2 fps JPEG.

So considering I need two its not a worthwhile proposition.

donaldejose

Maybe something mirrorless will come out next year which will make sense for your business.