NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

moreorless

sport said:

I'm with spraynpray, I mostly use the Sigma 24-35 and really don't find it too limiting. 24-55 would really have to offer something big to find a market.

The main thing would surely be small size? I'm guessing for a lot of the tourist market as well 24-55mm might trump 28-70mm. Even moreso if it actually performs well at the wide end unlike the FE normal zooms.

I think a clear weakness of Sony's to target is that they don't offer that great a selection of budget/low spec lenses. A lot of the reason the EOS-M system has done so well is IMHO because it targeted that kind of weakness in Sony at APSC.

sport

HankB said:

spraynpray & sport, just curious about 24-35 being your most used lens. Do you heavily crop, and if so, is this with a D850?

Mine is with a d750. I don't crop unless I really have to or I want something artistic. The lens took some getting used to at first as you definitely have to get used to getting closer to the subject. I came from a dx camera so that played into having to get used to the lens. For Jiu-Jitsu tournaments the range is generally perfect. It's basically like having a heavy 35mm lens.

spraynpray

I aim to use all the pixels with the D850, but it was also a fab lens on the D750. The reviews say it is a 24,28 & 35mm prime in one body.

For sure if there was a 24-70, 24-105 or 24-120 that was as sharp (and free from aberrations) as my 24-35 I would be all over it, but there isn't so I use my 60mm G or 70-200 f4 if I want longer.

snakebunk

@spraynpray: Lets hope you can convert your 24-35 and use it with the new mirrorless mount. It seems great and would probably be my choice if I ever needed a wide angle lens.

spraynpray

LOL! @snakebunk - I only just got my D850 - my wife will divorce me!

rmp

Let me see -- wife? or new camera? Hummmm :-)

spraynpray

Ha-ha Bob - don't go there!

WestEndFoto

Divorce is very expensive. You are unlikely to be able to afford much gear if you go there.

mhedges

Hey you know the saying - “Why is divorce so expensive? Because it’s worth it”

Seriously though there’s no way I would have been able to buy the camera stuff I have gotten if I was still married. Those purchases would have been vetoed for sure.

Hiker

BVS said:

Hiker said:

Thanks. Much appreciated!! Some will defend Nikon to the death, and that's ok. It's not that I don't enjoy my Nikon, I just don't see them as the future due to their issues. And again, EVERY SINGLE DAY on the Sony A7iii Facebook page, scores of Nikon and Canon people are leaving their beloved Nikon and Canon cameras for Sony, and others to a lesser extent.

You might want to stop reading the Sony A7III Facebook page. Sony has been good at marketing recently and Nikon has not.

HA HA!! Right! After several weeks on the A7iii Facebook page, the main complaint from those that use the A7iii is video. I'm not buying a camera for video. Yes, it's a nice option if I ever would want to use it. But I'm buying a camera for taking photos. When some complained about the video part I told them to just buy a video camera then. Well....that was a mistake!!! LOL

rmp

Thom's recent article is a bit of a downer. (See http://dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-silence-from-nikon.html)

If Nikon does not come out with a lighter smaller mirrorless soon, In Jan. I will start looking at Olympus.

mhedges

Interesting read. My hot take on the D500 underperforming Nikon's sales expectations is that there just isn't a whole lot of a market for a pro DX camera. What is the benefit of a D500 over a 7200 or 7500 if you aren't shooting a lot of sports or nature? And since those customers would have to buy FX glass anyway for anything longer than 300mm maybe they just decide to go for a FX body.

BVS

I guess that explains why the 500 PF got the go ahead - there's a lot of price flexibility and little competition for a product like that at the high end of the market, whereas something like an entry level mirrorless camera would have to hit a pretty narrow price point to be competitive which might not produce the required ROI.

Capt_Spaulding

rmp said:

Thom's recent article is a bit of a downer. (See http://dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-silence-from-nikon.html)

If Nikon does not come out with a lighter smaller mirrorless soon, In Jan. I will start looking at Olympus.

Downer is an understatement. If he has the attitudes of Nikon's upper management right, the company has a difficult road ahead of it.

At present, I'm happy with the kit I have so I'm not looking to make a change, but I hate to see such an icon driven into the ditch by a bunch of short sighted "B - school" types.

rmp

There is a time to push ROI, a time to push technology, and they are not the same time. The magic is knowing when to push which one. One side is never "always" right.

sport

Capt_Spaulding said:

At present, I'm happy with the kit I have so I'm not looking to make a change, but I hate to see such an icon driven into the ditch by a bunch of short sighted "B - school" types.

I'm in the same boat right now. My kit is perfect for what I do and where I am at this moment in time. Looking down the road right now is tough if you are a Nikon fan. Especially if you are D500 user or a D6x0/D700/D750 user, all of these lines are starting to look like the D300. Great camera with no followup.

How many losses will they take if/when they don't bring anything to Photokina? Not just camera losses either, I am not purchasing any lenses moving forward as I just can't justify the purchase. If I really need something I will rent it.

[Deleted User]

First regarding Tom Hogan complaint essay, I think he is missing some basic budiness analysis background, and is too focused in the American and perhaps European markets where one can say they are heavily saturated with product.

So addressing the first missive, design and manufactoring companies use Net Present Value with multi-year investments utilizing discounted cash analysis in the mix. Related to this, the ultimate analysis is ROE not ROI, not that one cannot apply the latter. EBIT is the Key marker for investors not ROI, which had its roots in the original Dupont model.

So putting in all of the costs for a given project if the NPR is positive, it can be assumed to add to the bottom line.

So why would Nikon focus its attention primarily on saturated markets unless it had something truely revolutionary to say with a product. Hence it is more interested in markets where the middle class has greater discretionary income such as Jong Gwo and India. Singapore, Indonesia among other smaller markets are key for its future. Lastly, we taught the Japanese post WWII about JIT inventory which can be a viable system if you integrate your suppliers as stakeholders. So like Leica, they are trying to function as a smaller company with wider margins. There is value in these strategies.

So we can all act like spoiled two year olds with temper tantrums crying that we cant get what we want. Who the h... Cares what Tom or anyone else says if you are not steering the ship. We sound like a bunch of blowhards with little understanding and acting like we do. Tom may have some clues and opinions, but we all remain clueless about running a B$ company.

Having said that, most of us yearn for this or that in a system, and rightfully so, and we should let these companies know what we like/want.

For those threatening to switch, just do it and shut up, or wait patiently.

I can't see the future but have already expressed a series of unique features no company has which would bring Nikon notoriety which it needs, yes beyond the d850.

AI, setting GND or many stop ND filters in camera (I would love an in camera polarizing filter option with graduated capability), in camera tilt technology for landscapes... The list is long. Can they get there. I would say yes but Nikon will need to push dramatic innovation, not mimic, and take calculated risks and continue to penetrate markets where there is strong growth or potential for growth.

Complaints get old. Let's think positive.
flip

WestEndFoto

The “ultimate analysis” is both IRR and NPV, but I am splitting hairs.

[Deleted User]

I havent used IRR since my days with a distressed debt (CRE) firm many years ago. Valid but ROE still in vogue especially for PE. Major banks ROA.

NPV def for manufacturing.

[Deleted User]

BTW, has anyone tried the zeiss 25mm 1.4? Curious about rendering and color as compared to OTII (OTUS). Seems a far gone conclusion with the d850 (we can move this to a new header if necessary). Thanks.

BabaGanoush

" India. Singapore, Indonesia among other smaller markets are key for its future"

Right. LOL. The population of Singapore is 5 million, about the size of a mid-range US or European city. Singapore could never be a huge market for Nikon, certainly not an exclusive one. If the market there is good for Nikon, it is even better for Canon. Now India and Indonesia are certainly countries with huge populations, but they also remain poor countries. They are probably good markets for cheap cameras like smart phones, compact cameras, entry level DSLRs or mass market mirrorless cameras, but not prime markets for cameras as expensive as the D850 and the like. Nikon is essentially out of the cheap camera business, having cast its lot with the upscale camera business.

Msmoto

I guess I will drop in on this thread again.... Have looked at Fuji.... nice controls but still some issues....like lens quality IMO. Sony...nice but I want a mirrorless crop sensor so as to go to lighter lenses and get the 1.5 factor in telephoto lenses.

Having just sold my 400/2.8 Nikkor, I am really in the market for the lighter system. Was planning on using my D500 in the meantime, but trashed it a couple weeks ago at a race. Dropped it and the weight of the lens bent the front mount in about 2mm on one edge....headed to Melville soon.

I am wondering if Nikon is coming out with a mirrorless before my 80th birthday... only 76 at present....LOL

If Sony could bring out a crop sensor with more direct controls than the alpha6500 this might be the answer. Maybe a crop sensor a7 III....

BVS

Msmoto said:

Having just sold my 400/2.8 Nikkor, I am really in the market for the lighter system. Was planning on using my D500 in the meantime, but trashed it a couple weeks ago at a race. Dropped it and the weight of the lens bent the front mount in about 2mm on one edge....headed to Melville soon.

What about doing D500 + 300PF? That combo should be more manageable compared to 400/2.8 + D5 (I think you were using?) and would offer a similar equivalent focal length. Or, were you using the 400 on the D500?

retread

I am content shooting with a D500 and D7200 and the lens set I have. Will move to FX when I feel the time is right.

I use the Sigma 120-300 S on the D500 but it is far from light.

Pistnbroke

Don't even think about Olympus ..M1 I guess you mean ..expensive , Lenses what lenses and the menus.....Fugi No ...ignore the fat man who today says he has selected the D4 to use at an event …..