NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

manhattanboy

Here is hoping that Nikon is using this new Sony sensor for their Nikon 1 reboot. A 31MP almost APS-C sized sensor that would fit into the Nikon 1 mount and has a silent global shutter, 4K video and crazy frame rates would be very interesting to me! I don't know who is using this sensor, but hats off to them.

rmp

Would it have better low light capability?

BabaGanoush

manhattanboy said:

Here is hoping that Nikon is using this new Sony sensor for their Nikon 1 reboot. A 31MP almost APS-C sized sensor that would fit into the Nikon 1 mount and has a silent global shutter, 4K video and crazy frame rates would be very interesting to me! I don't know who is using this sensor, but hats off to them.

Isn't it more likely this sensor would appear first in a Sony camera than in a Nikon camera? And wouldn't this be one more reason to switch from Nikon to Sony? Just sayin', if Sony is out in front of the technology R&D, why would you wait around for Nikon to wake up and smell the roses?

mhedges

That has a different aspect ratio than traditional. 4:3 not 3:2.

manhattanboy

rmp said:

Would it have better low light capability?

From having a larger APS-C sized sensor, yes, the same way that DX is better than 1" and FX is better than DX.
I do not know this is headed to Nikon, but it does not look like it's for either Sony crop cameras nor Fuji cameras if the 4:3 aspect ratio is true. I know Sony has a long rumored A9000, and this sensor spec wise would meet that, however the aspect ratio is weird and as a result I do not think this is for that camera.
The only reason I mention the Nikon 1 is that the image circle is small and while a traditional APS-C sensor can fit, making something a little bit smaller by making it more square with a 4:3rds aspect ratio would actually do the trick.
This seems to mesh well with prior rumors where Nikon was considering a larger sensor Nikon 1 upgrade.
Nikon 1 is still alive, larger sensor mirrorless solution is being considered

manhattanboy

mhedges said:

That has a different aspect ratio than traditional. 4:3 not 3:2.

See my post above. If you are Nikon, having the oddball Nikon 1 be rebooted with a 4:3 sensor actually makes some sense from the fact that it is different enough not to compete with their DSLRs. The sensor has enough MP to do all sorts of crops for cinema and 4K video (as well as 1" to maintain compatibility with existing Nikon 1 lenses). The global shutter could see an interesting implementation here and would be advanced/cutting edge enough to actually warrant Nikon's usual way too high MSRP asking prices.

BabaGanoush said:

Isn't it more likely this sensor would appear first in a Sony camera than in a Nikon camera? And wouldn't this be one more reason to switch from Nikon to Sony? Just sayin', if Sony is out in front of the technology R&D, why would you wait around for Nikon to wake up and smell the roses?

I haven't
I own a Sony A9 for the near global shutter and silent shooting. I use it more and more given that the 35 pancake makes it a great travel camera as well. I love my Nikons but as requirements change for certain events (e.g. silence) then my tools have to change too.

In regards to Sony using this sensor, I doubt it for their camera business for the reasons stated above (e.g. they are unlikely to introduce a 4/3rds sensor given the success their A6X00 cameras have had). If anything, this type of sensor would be amazing for robotic vision, where there is no skewing from rolling shutter and there is enough resolution to allow for fine discrimination of the environment. What this sensor does tell me though, is that if Canon knocks it out of the park with their upcoming mirrorless cameras, then Sony can quickly iterate to produce some amazing global shutter competitors.

Pistnbroke

First its not a 4/3 sensor as in micro 4/3 it just has a 4/3 aspect ratio . Interesting in the film days makers wanted to introduce 40 frames per roll cameras which would have meant a 4to 3 ratio but it was banned by congress presumably to protect Kodak

WestEndFoto

If you are going to abandon the 2:3 ratio, go all in and make it a 1:1 aspect ratio. All sorts of things are possible if you do that.

mhedges

Pistnbroke said:

First its not a 4/3 sensor as in micro 4/3 it just has a 4/3 aspect ratio . Interesting in the film days makers wanted to introduce 40 frames per roll cameras which would have meant a 4to 3 ratio but it was banned by congress presumably to protect Kodak

What? Got a link? I never heard about that.

sport

BabaGanoush said:

Isn't it more likely this sensor would appear first in a Sony camera than in a Nikon camera? And wouldn't this be one more reason to switch from Nikon to Sony? Just sayin', if Sony is out in front of the technology R&D, why would you wait around for Nikon to wake up and smell the roses?

It's an industrial sensor. It's a color version of the IMX342LLA which was just released last week. You can see the specs for the IMX342LLA at the Sony Semiconductor site (see link here) and see that they are same except monochrome vs color. This just looks like Sony fanboys spreading rumors to drive conversations.

snakebunk

How is an industrial sensor different from the ones that are used in cameras?

mhedges

snakebunk said:

How is an industrial sensor different from the ones that are used in cameras?

These are just guesses but:

Lower volume = more expensive
Generally used in machine vision systems which may not require the same amount of dynamic range, since lighting can be controlled better
Similarly may not be optimized for high ISO
Power consumption not as much of a concern
Color rendition may be not be as good

Stuff like that. Basically you don’t need the same performance from a sensor that’s designed to tell you if widget “A” is good or not as you do from a multipurpose camera designed to give high quality images.

HankB

Bad pixels — randomly scattered as opposed to a line-out or adjacent to each other — are OK for certain industrial applications. No way you would notice a few bad pixels from a surveillance video, police body cam, automobile backup camera, etc.

On the specification plus side, some industrial units may include specs for many years of 24/7 operation in a harsh environment (thermal extremes, vibration extremes, etc.).

mhedges

HankB said:

Bad pixels — randomly scattered as opposed to a line-out or adjacent to each other — are OK for certain industrial applications. No way you would notice a few bad pixels from a surveillance video, police body cam, automobile backup camera, etc.

I would be really surprised if any of those applications use a 30 MP sensor that is almost APS-C size. Aren't surveillance cameras usually 1080P (~2MP)?

sport

These are going to be used in a few areas like factory automation, sports technology and military. Things like display panel and semiconductor production inspection would use these for 2D and 3D inspection. There is also a need for better resolution for vision guided robots. Sports technology covers the photo finish line, instant replay and goal line technology. Military applications would be like large area surveillance and 3D mapping.

Pistnbroke

30 days to go to announcement day ,,,woopeeee ( maybe not at $4000)
If there is no adaptor just watch sigma/tamron jump in with modified lenses of there own .


Don't remember where I read the 40 frames possibly on a 4/3 forum ..I have a Oly M5 called holiday cam

rmp

Why would Nikon have 2 full-frame mirror-less cameras at different mp? Just price? Maybe one for high-res and one for low-light?

spraynpray

Sounds very strange to me too Bob, but what do I know?

I would bet they will be a DX and an FX.

This from the blog:

"Pricing:
The 45MP model will be around $4,000/€4,000 in a kit with the 24-70mm lens.
The 25MP model will be under $3,000/€3,000 (also with a lens)."

I think the 24/5MP model will be DX and if they gave the kit lens range, it would confirm that so they didn't.

WestEndFoto

spraynpray said:

Sounds very strange to me too Bob, but what do I know?

I would bet they will be a DX and an FX.

This from the blog:

"Pricing:
The 45MP model will be around $4,000/€4,000 in a kit with the 24-70mm lens.
The 25MP model will be under $3,000/€3,000 (also with a lens)."

I think the 24/5MP model will be DX and if they gave the kit lens range, it would confirm that so they didn't.

It will be an APS-C it seems, but not DX. It needs an f-mount to be called DX.

rmp

That sounds more logical to me.

rmp

I have a d850 and a d500. Which one do I sell or both?

Pistnbroke

Why does the mount F relate to the sensor size DX ?? A DX is basically a half frame

donaldejose

I have both also Robert. I intend to keep both of them until I see what the mirrorless actually does. A DSLR still may be better at some things than mirrorless, such as action shooting if the EVF is not instantaneous. It is interesting to see the prediction of a high megapixel sensor model similar to the D850. Thom Hogan wrote that he doesn't think it makes any sense for Nikon to produce a mirrorless model with a sensor like the D850. Maybe Nikon disagrees with Thom; or maybe the rumors are incorrect and we will see a 24 mp full frame model and a 24 mp crop sensor mirrorless model. Anyway, the best part of the latest rumors for me is a late July announcement with a late August ship date! I do hope that is correct.

rmp

The sooner the better for us bleeding-edge, early acceptors. New toys are always welcome.

vtc2002

On the main Blog Peter thinks that the two cameras will be full frame. I think they will be full frame as well. If Nikon wants to compete or deliver a blow to Sony (and Fuji) they both need to be full frame. Why waste the time and effort to develop some thing that is not going to compete with the company that is taking your market shares? Delivering a high MP camera for the advanced photographer and a perhaps entry level camera that both use the new mount makes the most sense to me. If Nikon is going to release three new lens with the two cameras they both will need to be the same format.
I agree with Peter that Thom has not made a product release prediction yet that has happened. This time he may be right. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for Thom. I think it makes sense to have a high MP mirrorless camera that competes with Sony and the D850. To me it tells the loyal Nikon photographers that they are serious about the mirrorless camera, that they see it as the future and they are ready to take on the competition. I have no plans to sell my D850's or other Nikon cameras or equipment and will continue to use as it is the best on the market. I will buy the high MP mirrorless if it allows me to accomplish something that I can not do with my DSLR or if the form factor (smaller size and weight for traveling, etc.) provides an advantage over the DSLR.