NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

donaldejose

Agreed vtc2002. Nikon is "late to the party" at a time when its competitors are taking market share so Nikon needs to show up with products that outdo the competition: one "pro" full frame mirrorless and one "advanced amature" full frame mirrorless. One question the latest rumors raised. If the two new bodies have in body image stabilization with a moving sensor how to you clean such a sensor without damaging the moving parts? I assume Nikon will have some sort of locking mechanism to lock down the sensor during cleaning.

Pistnbroke

don't think vtc 2002 my wife does a lot of that and it costs money.

vtc2002

@Pistnbroke It usually gives me a heahache. Your wife must be related to mine, it either costs me money or alot of sweat equity.

@donaldejose You raise a great question.

donaldejose

I expect Sony users know the answer to my question. They must be dealing with it.

Pistnbroke

XQD or CF express...hope I can find an adaptor to take SD.....No NO don't be silly $4000

donaldejose

I have been thinking about two full frame mirrorless Nikons at price points and mp which directly compete with two of Sony's popular models: the A7 and A7R. I think this is a good strategy by Nikon to stop the loss of market share to Sony. If Nikon's models can provide a better user experience people should pick them over the Sony's. Current Nikon users should stick with Nikon mirrorless if they switch to mirrorless even if the Nikons are equal to, but not better than, the Sony's simply because of a more familiar user interface. So the question will be whether or not Sony offers some compelling feature which Nikon mirrorless bodies do not offer. It is ok to "replace" or "update" the D750 with a 24mp mirrorless body. No one in the market for a "new" D750 level body will insist it has to be a DSLR. It is ok to "match" the great D850 body with an equally great mirrorless body. These both have been very good cameras for Nikon and making their equivalent in a mirrorless body is a good strategy. Next year Nikon will come out the the DX versions of mirrorless bodies in the $1,000 to $2,000 range which will contain "trickle down" technology from Nikon's first two mirrorless bodies. The next D6 is likely to be mirrorless IF Nikon can create an EVF with a sufficient refresh rate to equal an OVF in keeping up with action subjects. BIG changes ahead for Nikon and for all of us as new technology comes on line. STOP buying lenses because the odds are you are going to want them in the new mount.

spraynpray

Used F mount lens prices will come down - whoopee!

Msmoto

Makes little difference to full or crop sensor. I will most likely be ordering the 24MP version as I like the higher ISO which lower MP tends to give.

I suspect a very large amount of testing has gone into these and, IMO, Nikon will be cannibalizing their pro body sales as most likely the mirrorless will become the gold standard in years to come

sport

It will be interesting to see how this transition goes compared to the dx >> fx move. Specifically it will be interesting to see the lenses that come out in the future. It seemed like Nikon got so caught up in offering cameras that they ignored the lens side. That theme also showed up at the Nikon 1 series. There were some really good things with that series but they didn't really follow through.

If the specs listed this week are true, then there are some things that should really help out. In camera stabilization will take some burden off the lens designs. On the flip side, video is going to really push the lens designs. I really hope that Nikon changes course and offers a lens roadmap so that we can see where they are going.

Also, please please please consider hiring an outside firm for marketing. Grassroots marketing is not going to cut it against the Sony machine.

snakebunk

Aren't the specs almost identical to Sony Ax cameras? I guess Nikon feel confident that they can beat them in their own niche. I was hoping for big ergonomic bodies but rumors say it will be like Sony. And Sony now has an advantage in their almost 1 kg lighter 400/2.8. This makes me interested in what Canon will bring to the table. Will they do something different or join the competition?

KnockKnock

Most interesting sign of life from Nikon in awhile. I hope they go with very similar body and ergonomics for a DX version.

Excited to see if they go all pro as in D850/D5/D500. Or something more like D850/D750/D7500, sans the D850's controls. The rumors sound like they point to the former.

Either way, along with many mortals, I'll be waiting to see what trickles down to the $1200-1500 range someday/year.

Pistnbroke

lets just pray they don't use the stupid pro controls /memories.
Pleased to hear there is a sophisticated adaptor for F mount lenses .sorry $ophi$tocated adaptor.

Hiker

In several weeks we will see and know everything. Then hopefully Nikon will have a big press release like Sony did for the A9 (Sedona) and A7iii (Las Vegas). Nikon needs to take those same photographers to an exotic location to test out the cameras and 3 lenses in different environments. Hopefully Nikon will get it right. That dual focusing motor is interesting to say the least!! I know Canon has been field testing a full frame mirrorless for a couple of weeks now. Interesting times for us photographers.

BabaGanoush

rmp said:

I have a d850 and a d500. Which one do I sell or both?

Neither. Sell one of your kidneys or one of your kids.

Pistnbroke

No sell the wife and the kids..but seriously buying new cameras at the top end is getting very expensive particularly if you need 2 or 3 . So at the prices being quoted I think I will be sticking with the two D 810 and D800 I use for the weddings. $12000 is a lot to pull back from "profit"

PB_PM

The price tags are getting a little crazy, but I guess Nikon wants to be Leica (exclusive). Someone needs to tell them they aren’t Leica, and that no, I won’t pay that much. Money talks, I haven’t bought a new Nikon product since 2015.

mhedges

I’m curious how the market for higher end ILC’s is split between pros and enthusiasts. And which group is willing to pay more $$ for their gear.

WestEndFoto

mhedges said:

I’m curious how the market for higher end ILC’s is split between pros and enthusiasts. And which group is willing to pay more $$ for their gear.

Your comment makes me think of the following:

Amateurs worry about gear.
Pros worry about money.
Artists worry about light.

I can't remember where I read this, but it is not my original.

mhedges

WestEndFoto said:

mhedges said:

I’m curious how the market for higher end ILC’s is split between pros and enthusiasts. And which group is willing to pay more $$ for their gear.

Your comment makes me think of the following:

Amateurs worry about gear.
Pros worry about money.
Artists worry about light.

I can't remember where I read this, but it is not my original.

What if you worry about all three?

tc88

What I want is en-el15 battery and at least one SD slot. If it's as the rumor stated with only XQD and CF express slots, that will be a huge mistake and will limit it to just the D5 users.

WestEndFoto

mhedges said:

WestEndFoto said:

mhedges said:

I’m curious how the market for higher end ILC’s is split between pros and enthusiasts. And which group is willing to pay more $$ for their gear.

Your comment makes me think of the following:

Amateurs worry about gear.
Pros worry about money.
Artists worry about light.

I can't remember where I read this, but it is not my original.

What if you worry about all three?

You are in need of help.

HankB

In support of the speculation that upcoming Nikon mirrorless will all be full frame —   One huge advantage of a APS-C DSLR over full frame DSLR is you can get the smaller mirror to bang up and down faster. Consider FPS performance of a D850, even when running in DX mode vs the much faster D500.

With mirrorless, APS-C looses this mechanical advantage over full frame, and therefore looses its only true performance advantage. I am assuming the mirror, not the mechanical shutter is the constraining factor for FPS. And of course you do have the alternative of electronic shutter.

— — — —

donaldejose said:

One question the latest rumors raised. If the two new bodies have in body image stabilization with a moving sensor how to you clean such a sensor without damaging the moving parts? I assume Nikon will have some sort of locking mechanism to lock down the sensor during cleaning.

Is in-body IS done with real "moving parts" or with solid state piezoelectric mounts? If piezoelectric, that should be pretty robust.

mhedges

I believe it is done with voice coils similar to in lens IS. But people clean sensors on Sony cameras with IBIS, right? And anyway, how often do you really have to clean the sensor. I have yet to.

vtc2002

@WestEndFoto the actual quote is:

“Amateurs worry about equipment, professionals worry about money, masters worry about light, I just make pictures… ” by Vernon Trent

The quote is pretty broad and a little over generalized but does have some truth. I doubt the professional landscape photographers that does not worry about light would have much money to worry about. I would also doubt anyone that claims to have mastered photography.

Not being a big fan of Ken Rockwell, I do think his list of the Seven Levels of Photographers has more truths than the statement above.

https://kenrockwell.com/tech/7.htm

WestEndFoto

Thank you VTC2002. Now I can credit Vernon when I use it. I think that I prefer my variation a little more as I consider myself an artist. Note that artist is a broad term that says nothing about how good you are.

I also prefer both these statements to Rockwell’s as they roll off the tongue better.

And as you know, the brat in me loves making over broad statements with elements of truth in them. When I present to an audience in a professional context (I am a CFO) I am quick to qualify the over generalization. In other situations, if the right person bites, I take pleasure in sitting back and watching the spasms. Can you imagine how far and in what direction some people may take the above.

Regarding Rickwell’s statement, I do think there is a lot of truth in that, but I have a very serious quibble in his comment about whores. I think for some people accepting money may force them to think critically about their art in a way that improves it. Many famous historical artists had patrons and benefactors.

Regarding Rockwell’s quote, however, I have very carefully stayed in Level 5 and avoided Level 6. I don’t sell my work but I print and frame about 50 images a year for people, mostly lawyers and bankers. I recover the cost and that is it. The that I don’t take money is to tackle Level 7 on my own terms and I don’t need the money.

This is an interesting topic.