NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

Searcy

Alright, after a year of thinking it over and very nearly going to a Sony A7iii I’ve decided to pull the trigger on a Nikon Z6 with adapter. Probably order it from Adarama on Monday.

mhedges

Awesome let us know what you think. Gonna get the kit lens with it? I highly recommend it. It makes for such a small and capable setup.

Searcy

mhedges said:

Awesome let us know what you think. Gonna get the kit lens with it? I highly recommend it. It makes for such a small and capable setup.

Yes, looking at some of your shots with it and seeing some recent video footage from is what sold me. Like you I am stepping into full frame with the Z6 from my trusty d7200 DX. Would you say the Z6 auto focus and low light ability are better than the d7200?

For now I'm not going to get the kit lens. I want to see how it works with my 24-70 2.8 VR and my other 3 lenses before I get more lenses.

mhedges

Searcy said:

mhedges said:

Awesome let us know what you think. Gonna get the kit lens with it? I highly recommend it. It makes for such a small and capable setup.

Yes, looking at some of your shots with it and seeing some recent video footage from is what sold me. Like you I am stepping into full frame with the Z6 from my trusty d7200 DX. Would you say the Z6 auto focus and low light ability are better than the d7200?

For now I'm not going to get the kit lens. I want to see how it works with my 24-70 2.8 VR and my other 3 lenses before I get more lenses.

It's certainly gives much better high ISO performance. And at low/base ISO it has a more pleasing creamy texture to the images vs. D7200. My only complaint about the D7200 was that it showed a bit more grain than I thought it should have.

As far as AF so far I would say it is about the same. AF on static subjects in low light is fine. I don't really shoot moving subjects in extreme low light. I did just do some AF tests with my kids at the trampoline park and it it did pretty well in somewhat marginal indoor light. Face detection works well. But I do not claim to be an expert at getting the most out of DSLR AF. And it was a bit hard to tell if it really nailed focus since I was shooting with a slow zoom lens and the ISO was very high.

spraynpray

Good man!

mhedges

One other thing I should mention is very noticeable with the switch to FF is the reduction in DOF. I know that technically an argument can be made that there is no change but practically speaking it's obvious.

Searcy

Most of what I shoot ends up being slow moving targets in questionable and changing low light.



I'll probably order it today or tomorrow.

WestEndFoto

mhedges said:

One other thing I should mention is very noticeable with the switch to FF is the reduction in DOF. I know that technically an argument can be made that there is no change but practically speaking it's obvious.

The way that most people seem to find easiest to wrap their head around this concept is to consider how much further you have to move away from the subject to obtain the same composition (say the tip of the head to the big toe). That extra distance accounts for the increased depth of field of DX (or any other format. This experiment is easy to demonstrate with a full frame camera. Just flip between DX and FX without changing lenses.

mhedges

WestEndFoto said:

mhedges said:

One other thing I should mention is very noticeable with the switch to FF is the reduction in DOF. I know that technically an argument can be made that there is no change but practically speaking it's obvious.

The way that most people seem to find easiest to wrap their head around this concept is to consider how much further you have to move away from the subject to obtain the same composition (say the tip of the head to the big toe). That extra distance accounts for the increased depth of field of DX (or any other format. This experiment is easy to demonstrate with a full frame camera. Just flip between DX and FX without changing lenses.

I think of it more in terms of you are using a shorter focal length to capture the same scene. Like, instead of 75mm you would use 50mm. So of course you have more DOF. Really the same thing you are saying just kind of turned around.

WestEndFoto

mhedges said:

WestEndFoto said:

mhedges said:

One other thing I should mention is very noticeable with the switch to FF is the reduction in DOF. I know that technically an argument can be made that there is no change but practically speaking it's obvious.

The way that most people seem to find easiest to wrap their head around this concept is to consider how much further you have to move away from the subject to obtain the same composition (say the tip of the head to the big toe). That extra distance accounts for the increased depth of field of DX (or any other format. This experiment is easy to demonstrate with a full frame camera. Just flip between DX and FX without changing lenses.

I think of it more in terms of you are using a shorter focal length to capture the same scene. Like, instead of 75mm you would use 50mm. So of course you have more DOF. Really the same thing you are saying just kind of turned around.

We are saying the same thing - mathematically equivalent.

BVS

Searcy said:

mhedges said:

Awesome let us know what you think. Gonna get the kit lens with it? I highly recommend it. It makes for such a small and capable setup.

Yes, looking at some of your shots with it and seeing some recent video footage from is what sold me. Like you I am stepping into full frame with the Z6 from my trusty d7200 DX. Would you say the Z6 auto focus and low light ability are better than the d7200?

For now I'm not going to get the kit lens. I want to see how it works with my 24-70 2.8 VR and my other 3 lenses before I get more lenses.

AF performance in low light with the Zs is highly affected by aperture, since the camera focuses at the selected aperture down to f/5.6, so if you have any problems try opening up the lens more. f/2.8 and 800 ISO like in your sample shot should be fine though.

The Z camera perform better if you use the correct AF mode for the correct situation. With the Nikon DSLRs you can often get away with using Single Point for everything, but with the Zs it's better to use the correct mode. Also, the Wide modes and face detect often work better than Single Point in poor lighting situations, I assume because the camera has more data to work with. Here's Nikon's AF guide:
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gVQ--AxJI7g-xcLVNVcp7mZwZQo0f6fAd8yUoQG/Misc/Z7-Autofocus-Guide.pdf

Turn off Custom Setting a11 (low light AF) unless you're shooting a static subject. This can sometimes slow down the AF speed a lot in poor lighting situations as the camera slowly crawls through the focal range trying to attain focus. It only affects AF-S mode though.

Turn off Custom Setting d8 (apply settings to live view) if you're using flash. This setting toggles the WYSIWYG feature of the EVF/screen. With flash the camera doesn't apply the effect of the flash so you just get a dark image in the viewfinder and the camera will have trouble focusing (or so I've read).

Turn on Custom Setting d5 (Electronic front-curtain shutter) and just keep it on all the time unless you need >1/2000 shutter speed. It'll make the shutter quieter and eliminate/decrease shutter shock:
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/shutter-shock-and-the-nikon-z7/

In terms of low light image quality, the Z6 is significantly better than the D7200, and even better than the D750:
https://dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=nikon_d7200&attr13_1=nikon_z6&attr13_2=nikon_d750&attr13_3=nikon_d5&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=12800&attr16_1=12800&attr16_2=12800&attr16_3=12800&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.13331662027148994&y=-0.9649876604664852

Lastly, keep in mind that you save $400 by buying the 24-70/4 in a kit with the camera, so if you ever think you'll want it you might want to get it, or wait for refurbs to arrive. Personally, I could see owning both the f/4 and the f/2.8. The f/4 is small, light, and sharp and makes for a good walk around lens. It's also very good for video. Apparently the Z cameras do some kind of parfocal correction with native Z zoom lenses.
https://dpreview.com/forums/thread/4353685

tc88

@BVS, great info. Interesting to know the caveats of a mirrorless.

Searcy

Yes! Thank you BVS for the in depth information. I can see that I will need to study the new camera a good bit before I can use all it's potential. It should arrive today.

I will likely get some of the Z mount lenses eventually. I like the 24-70 idea I just don't have the funds right now.

Searcy

First shot out of the camera with factory setting and FTZ adapter using a cheep Nikon 50mm 1.8 F mount.

r


My initial impression. Wow! I'm finding the EVF and the quick menus to be super intuitive. I had a scare for a moment where I accidentally turned off the rear screen and thought it was broken. Turns out there a button for turning it on and off that I had hit and didn't know it.

I am finding the small size to be a bit awkward in my hand but I imagine I'll get more used to it as i use it. It does not feel good at all with my huge, heavy 24-70 2.8 VR attached. Since that lens is worth a fair amount I'm thinking about trading it towards some Z mount lenses when the new ones come out later this year.

I went through and checked the setting against the recommendations by BVS. Most were that way from factory. I did change the d5 setting to see how it works with my shooting style.

I bought 2 Sony 64gig XQD cards and an XQD reader with the camera. Trying to use that this morning I'm finding that the files transfer faster than SD cards but the new RAW file can not be opened by Photo Shop or Light Room. I'm downloading updates for those programs now to see if that fixes the issue.

So far I'm amazed.

mhedges

Glad you are liking it! I really was pretty surprised at how much better it was than my D7200. Even in situations with good lighting its just better.

What XQD card reader did you get? I haven't gotten one yet - have just been connecting straight to the camera. Also what cards? I have one 64 gb Sony G series, but I do need a backup.

Yeah that button on the left side of the viewfinder that controls EVF vs. rear screen is kinda sneaky. I'm always messing with it. One thing I still haven't been able to figure out is how to get image review to work like DSLR. Maybe because I am just not used to doing it in viewfinder. Let me know if you figure out a setting that works.

BVS

Searcy said:

My initial impression. Wow! I'm finding the EVF and the quick menus to be super intuitive. I had a scare for a moment where I accidentally turns off the rear screen and thought it was broken. Turns out there a butting for turning it on and off that I had hit and didn't know it...

There's an option in the Setup menu named "Limit monitor mode selection" that will let you disable any modes you don't use, so you don't have to cycle through all the modes if you accidentally press the button on the viewfinder. If there's only one mode that you always use disable all the others and the button won't do anything.

BVS

Another handy thing is that the record button doesn't do anything in stills mode, so it's like an extra custom button and you can set it to whatever you want. Personally, I set it to change metering mode, since I was used to having a metering mode button on my old D7100 and there's isn't one on the Zs.

I also set the joystick center press to center the AF point (RESET) so all AF point movements were on the same control, and set the OK button to Zoom, so it behaves the same in both shooting and preview modes.

Searcy

mhedges said:

What XQD card reader did you get? I haven't gotten one yet - have just been connecting straight to the camera. Also what cards? I have one 64 gb Sony G series, but I do need a backup.

.

Sorry for taking so long to get back.Here's the card and reader I bought.

https://www.adorama.com/soqdasb1j.html

https://www.adorama.com/soqdg64ej.html

I'm impressed with the speed so far. For some of these events I do I have to have at least two cards.

mhedges

Searcy said:

mhedges said:

What XQD card reader did you get? I haven't gotten one yet - have just been connecting straight to the camera. Also what cards? I have one 64 gb Sony G series, but I do need a backup.

.

Sorry for taking so long to get back.Here's the card and reader I bought.

https://www.adorama.com/soqdasb1j.html

https://www.adorama.com/soqdg64ej.html

I'm impressed with the speed so far. For some of these events I do I have to have at least two cards.

No problem - thanks. That's the reader I was considering. And I'm pretty sure that's the card I'm using.

Wow you use 2 64 GB cards in one day? That's a lot of shots. I think I'm getting just under 2000 14 bit RAW lossless compressed on one 64 gb card.

Searcy

mhedges said:

Searcy said:

mhedges said:

What XQD card reader did you get? I haven't gotten one yet - have just been connecting straight to the camera. Also what cards? I have one 64 gb Sony G series, but I do need a backup.

.

Sorry for taking so long to get back.Here's the card and reader I bought.

https://www.adorama.com/soqdasb1j.html

https://www.adorama.com/soqdg64ej.html

I'm impressed with the speed so far. For some of these events I do I have to have at least two cards.

No problem - thanks. That's the reader I was considering. And I'm pretty sure that's the card I'm using.

Wow you use 2 64 GB cards in one day? That's a lot of shots. I think I'm getting just under 2000 14 bit RAW lossless compressed on one 64 gb card.

I don't think there's much chance of me filling a 64g card in one day but some of these events are longer than a day. Nashville Fashion Week is an entire week of events. I may be shooting a seminar at 9AM and a 3 hour runway show at 7PM and an after party at midnight. Sleep depravation starts to kick in one day two. At times like that it can be hard to transfer all my files and clean off my card for the next day.

With my d7200 I was using two 32G SD cards at a time. Shooting RAW I would occasionally full up one card and the second card would be overflow.

Since the Z6 only has the one card slot I figured better to get a 64G. Then my wife pointed out that I would use more card space if I took advantage of the Z6 video ability. So I decided to grab a second one while I was shelling out the money.


So far I haven't had a lot of time to shoot with it. Hopefully this weekend.

mhedges

Don't look now but the 120 GB Sony G card is only $155. I'll probably pick one up.

Searcy

mhedges said:

One other thing I should mention is very noticeable with the switch to FF is the reduction in DOF. I know that technically an argument can be made that there is no change but practically speaking it's obvious.

Wow, you're not kidding. I spent some time tonight playing around in my music room with the Z6 and my 50mm 1.8 and I kept thinking I was not nailing the focus because everything was fuzzy. Turned out to be that the DOF was so thin it was turning everything but my focal point into fuzz. I need to practice more.

Also, when selecting lens correction in PhotoShop there is no noticeable adjustment. Never the case with the d7200.

mhedges

Searcy said:

mhedges said:

One other thing I should mention is very noticeable with the switch to FF is the reduction in DOF. I know that technically an argument can be made that there is no change but practically speaking it's obvious.

Wow, you're not kidding. I spent some time tonight playing around in my music room with the Z6 and my 50mm 1.8 and I kept thinking I was not nailing the focus because everything was fuzzy. Turned out to be that the DOF was so thin it was turning everything but my focal point into fuzz. I need to practice more.

Also, when selecting lens correction in PhotoShop there is no noticeable adjustment. Never the case with the d7200.

Yep. And that’s one reason I’m fine with F4 lenses on this. F4 on FF gives about the same DOF as F2.8 on DX. Which (generally speaking) is fine. And with the high ISO performance at least one stop better than what I was used to I feel I don’t need F2.8 in most situations.

My understanding is that you can’t disable lens correction on the Z6. At least for the native glass. Not sure about adapted lenses.

Some pretty cool news tonight! Eye AF is coming! CFast card support and RAW video support also. I think its a very positive sign that they are adding major features like Eye AF after launch. That’s not how they did things with DSLR, that’s for sure.

14-30 F4 lens is gonna run $1300. That’s a bit more than I hoped but really not out of line considering the 16-35 is $1100.

WestEndFoto

And the optics are better. The S line, even at 1.8, is professional grade.

Searcy

I'm excited to see how well the Eye detect works. I was playing around with the face detect a little last night and it did ok. Not as good the Sony eye detect but still usable.