NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

FreezeAction

Does anyone know the answer to this? Can you shoot tethered to a Z6-7 using a laptop in a live view mode and not go black between shots and shoot with the silent shutter mode? I don't see how but if there is a chance then....

manhattanboy

I think there is blackout for all afc shots. Tethering or not I don't think will make any difference. Look at the YouTube videos... All of them recorded on line out show the blackout.

On an unrelated note, apparently I am the only one bummed by eye AF being restricted to auto area AF only. I really want to know who even shoots that way on a professional camera like the Z7. Most of the time who says to themselves "why don't I just let the camera pick what to focus on for this 48MP full frame shot". Facepalm

Symphotic

FreezeAction said:

Does anyone know the answer to this? Can you shoot tethered to a Z6-7 using a laptop in a live view mode and not go black between shots and shoot with the silent shutter mode? I don't see how but if there is a chance then....

Have you tried the new firmware? I don't know about tethering, but I took my Z7 to an indoor event tonight and put it in silent mode with bluetooth to my iPhone. Live view or viewfinder, the and the blackout time seems reduced over the previous version. just a flicker to let me know I took the shot.

Maybe that doesn't help you with what you are doing, but I thought it was perfect.

FreezeAction

Symphotic said:

FreezeAction said:

Does anyone know the answer to this? Can you shoot tethered to a Z6-7 using a laptop in a live view mode and not go black between shots and shoot with the silent shutter mode? I don't see how but if there is a chance then....

Have you tried the new firmware? I don't know about tethering, but I took my Z7 to an indoor event tonight and put it in silent mode with bluetooth to my iPhone. Live view or viewfinder, the and the blackout time seems reduced over the previous version. just a flicker to let me know I took the shot.

Maybe that doesn't help you with what you are doing, but I thought it was perfect.

I haven't bought either of the Z bodies yet and have been holding out. I hate not to be able to do BIF even if I don't often go out for it. Even with a D500 in the bag I like the idea of shooting large birds for large prints. When shooting small birds drawn into sets built to host them they move around so fast it can almost be like shooting a fast action even. I think it really is. You often have only an instant to get the shot before it's gone. By their nature they don't pose for long. When on the set they are not in their familiar surroundings and most are flighty. Shooting silently and in continuous mode is really the mode to use. It will eventually all come together. When is the question.

FreezeAction

Comparing the Z7 with the D850 for landscape work both need to be on a tripod when shooting multiple focal points so the Z7 can only have an advantage if the new native mount lenses for Z bodies are superior to F mount glass. Without images to compare by printing I'm not convinced Nikon Z mount glass is any better than F mount Sigma A glass on a D850 and the D850 is an awesome action camera at 9 frames a second. When stitching using Sigma A lenses on a D850 can there be any real advantage to using the Z7? I'd love to get my hands on some well thought out images to test that are just trees and maybe a reflection of the trees. I've done so with a model's portrait and it sure looks good but shooting models is just not my thing.

Pistnbroke

Great review here of the new eye software with loads of viewfinder examples of the good and the bad .

Ton14

Tested the Nikon Z6 with the new firmware today, just some AF.

First with the 70-200mm f/4 via the FTZ adapter and I could do my BIF photography as I always did and found out that, I have to learn to use the EVF with different AF setting. I set it on AF wide-S (C), release mode H* and it worked for me, I could follow the subject in the EVF and got a lot sharp photo's, this was not possible before this firmware upgrade. Following a seagull passing by and I had a string of 16 sharp photo's (I never had that only when I tested the D500).

Tested eye focus with this lens and it worked fine, noted that this is the first time I use such a system, this eye focus is not important for me at all, but for studio work it is a great addition and I will use it there, with f/5.6 or f/8 eye lashes and the eyes are sharp of course.

I also tested AF with the 50mm f/1.8 and the AF set on single-point AF (C) and all my photo's, also the BIF's where sharp, this lens worked better, so I wait for the 70-200mm f/2.8 S, which will be better than the F-lens on the FTZ adapter I think, but we will see.

For me this is the firmware upgrade I wanted. A couple of points.

Better take a spare battery with you.
AF was good but slow, but after this firmware upgrade it is very fast.
The camera goes in stand by and it takes a second to start when you press the shutter, so learn that you press the shutter to wake up the camera as first handling (hope this is some English, but you get it).
For BIF press the shutter and focus on a far object, you have to wake up the camera anyway and with this set it will be easier to find the bird.
EVF is super, but needs a learning process.

These are just the things I learned today and of course I'am in for every tip you all find.

mhedges

I did a V2 firmware test on Z6 too. Kids soccer, 70-300 AF-P lens, AF-C dynamic area AF. I'm cautiously optimistic that it is improved. It certainly wasn't perfect, but unlike the several other times I used this combo in very similar conditions it never totally lost its mind and went all the way to the extremes when trying to focus. There were still quite a few misses where it focused on the background, but anecdotally the hit level seemed higher. Overall compared to the DSLR's I have used (D5500 and D7200) I would say that the results I got today seemed better (bear in mind I haven't used a D500 or any other DSLR with top notch AF).

There was some weirdness with the white balance - I have to check the settings. I think I had it set for artificial light for night games. When I adjusted for Direct Sunlight (the correct condition) in View NX-I it seemed to make stuff look a little too yellow. Gotta look at it more and see if I can figure it out.

Pics available here if you want to take a look:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmDnvHyr

mhedges

Also as I mentioned before my Z6 was included in the recall. I'll be sending it in Monday. I'll let everyone know how long it takes to get it back.

Pistnbroke

If anyone has a Z6/7 that's grey market and needs the recall I would like to know how you go with Nikon.

Ton14

This was the thing I wanted from the new firmware, to follow and keep the subject in the EVF, this was not possible with the firmware 1.01.

Here a small example Nikon Z6 with the 70-200mm f/4 on the FTZ, ISO 100, 1/1250 - f/5.6, AF setting AF-C - Wide-area AF (S):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ton1414/albums/72157708501752865

@mhedges I see that for sports photography there is no need for very expensive lenses, the Nikkor AF-P 70-300mm F4.5-5.6E ED VR is super Let's hope Nikon make one for the Z-mount.

mhedges

@Ton14 Yes its great for daylight sports. At night or indoors you need 2.8 though.

Recall timeline update: I shipped my Z6 out 5/20; arrived at Nikon 5/22. They shipped it out 5/23 and I will have it tomorrow. Would have been a week door to door without the holiday.

spraynpray

Can't complain about that turnaround! Unless of course it isn't sorted when you get it back...

mhedges

Very true. Although I wasn't having any problems before the repair that I could tell.

From the packing slip they didn't replace the VR module - just adjusted it.

donaldejose

I used eye AF on my Z6 today shooting a two year old at f2.8 with a S 24-70 f2.8 lens in ambient light while she was playing with toys and moving around a lot. I would estimate that about 90% or better had the near eye in focus. Seems to me that is a good enough hit rate for work. While Sony may be better at this time; Nikon's eye AF is so much easier than trying to use single point AF on a moving child. So far, so good: glad to have this option available.

Pistnbroke

I think if the Z7 had had the focus abilities it has now when released I would have bought one over the D850 I did purchase....delete that mistake ..one card slot.

donaldejose

Agreed, hopefully the upcoming Z8 or Z9 will be the answer for all who find the Z6 and Z7 lacking. But if Nikon uses the same one card slot body with no vertical grip for the Z8 or Z9 they will be shooting themselves in the foot. I really do like the EVF, but probably wouldn't if I had to shoot fast moving action. Lag time must be a function of processing power. Hopefully, that will also be improved in the Z8 or Z9.

[Deleted User]

I am checking back to old comments after a hiatus of almost 1.5 years to compare notes, predictions, and thoughts.

It goes without saying that it would have taken a revolution in design and optics with Nikon first to market and with patents wrapped up, for them to climb over their competitors.

They have clearly pushed a strong positive path to short term survival, but now with one sale following another, I would say they are concerned about sufficient cash flow and ROE first and foremost, satisfying investors before their customers.

Can there be a happy medium, yes in good times.

What now is Nikon's distinctive competence that it has over competitors; nostalgia/history? I think not. Sony and Canon are witnessing their #3 position in the market, and see the chance to push them into the dirt perhaps.

If it were me as an investor, and unless there was something really unique in technology to offer which was, shall we say, cutting edge, I would be looking for a buyer/merger as Nikon obviously cannot maintain market share or operating income in a strong down market. Maybe they can become lean and continue to produce excellent products with low margins and even smaller operating income. Hard to say.

That is not for me to know or to decide. They have to work to become smaller, more flexible, and perhaps continue to innovate in small ways. Is this possible? Perhaps.

We won't know for 2-3 years more is my guess.

Yet I lust after at least one of their newest lenses (28mm f1.4e) and a 60MP DLSR which when combined will push the limits closer towards Medium Format.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why Nikon cannot produce a competitor to the Leica Q/Q2 which has been an apparent winner for Leica. A light, for travel, compact, one lens trick pony, with extreme quality and acuity. Leica really has no competition in this area including Sony.

Further cost cutting, reducing inventories, investments in non-photographic technology, and a few small home runs, might allow them to continue.

I think we all want to be optimistic, and perhaps Mitsubishi will continue to support them in a severe market down cycle. I am hopeful, as I refuse to purchase any competitor equipment because I frankly think Nikon's products are excellent, and competitive (with a few dogs in there). The Sony trend (just like Zeiss lenses) is just that, and although they have a few remarkable lenses now, I am more satisfied with Nikon color profiles. I see no real benefit to shift to any other manufacturer, as Nikon covers the gamut well (albeit with a few too many dated lenses?), and I prefer their output - and there are output differences with Sony and Canon for sure.

I wish them well and hope that they can continue to operate and produce high quality products for the market that I can buy.

mhedges

flip said:

For the life of me, I cannot understand why Nikon cannot produce a competitor to the Leica Q/Q2 which has been an apparent winner for Leica. A light, for travel, compact, one lens trick pony, with extreme quality and acuity. Leica really has no competition in this area including Sony.

I agree long term Nikon's outlook is uncertain. It depends on how far the market falls, and how much share they wind up bottoming out at. Everyone says APS-C is dead, but I think they need to put out a mirrorless model - that should goose their unit sales numbers, if not add a lot of profit.

As far as a Nikon version of the Q - My guess is the reason the Q works for Leica is that they can charge $5000 for it. Because Leica. There is no way Nikon could charge anywhere near that.

donaldejose

Wait a year and reevaluate Nikon's future viability after the transition Nikon is in now. In a year we should have the D760, D6, Z8, Z9 and one or more Z DX bodies out. Nikon's choice of XQD years ago, which many criticized, now gives them the ability to backwards adapt to DFExpress using only software. No current Sony or Canon camera on the market now can convert an existing memory card slot to CFExpress with software. That should be another advantage for Nikon but I don't know how far back in XQD history software conversion can be accomplished. In a year we will also have more S lenses out. Hopefully, many of them will receive great reviews like the 50mm f1.8 did: Otus sharpness for one forth the price. Maybe Nikon will produce a great "pancake" 28, 35 or 40mm S lens which could make a Z body quite light and compact. Nikon has much room below Z6: five spaces to be exact. One of those could be a very compact DX body without the current hand grip to replace the old, and still great, Coolpix A. As Nikon fills out its Z body line market share could change. I do hope so.

mhedges

I think it will help the Z's if the 70-200 2.8 is as good as the 24-70 2.8.

donaldejose

Yes, I also want a really good 85mm f1.8 which becomes a great 127.5mm when shot in DX crop mode. With higher and higher megapixel sensors I think we should start thinking of primes doing double duty; once in FX mode and again in DX mode.

PB_PM

Nikon’s biggest advantage over Sony has always been in the area of the A/D conversion, and greater flexibility of RAW files. That needs to be their selling point, because it sure isn’t anything else. Slightly better ergonomics isn’t it. In the real world the lenses absolute sharpness make far less difference to the end result than test charts and fanboys would have us believe. If someone cannot get great photos with modern cameras, the problem is not the camera.

Nikon needs to get that legacy stuff doesn’t matter now, they dropped F-mount and so there is nothing left to retain past buyers. Unless the brand can offer something that others don’t, people will go elsewhere. As someone who still mainly uses a Nikon DSLR, I cannot see a single reason to stay with Nikon if I go mirrorless at some point. Nikon does not have class leading AF (what good is the glass without class leading AF), nor class leading subject tracking (if anything their tracking system is terrible), nor class leading MP, nor class leading size to weight ratio, and worst yet they aren’t even the best value for the dollar spent (when considering the above). Best RAW files to work with is what they have, question is, is that good enough to get more buyers? Didn’t seem to help them maintain DSLR market share, so the end results are questionable. If I was a Nikon shareholder I’d be looking to sell if they don’t step up their game within the next 12-18 months.

mhedges

Is there any way to reduce the number of selectible AF points, particularly in Dynamic Area AF mode? I'd love to have only three - all centered vertically but spread out left to right. It would be great when shooting sports.

mhedges

Update: there is a way to select "every other" focus point. That does help, but it's still too many focus points for what I want. I wish the amount of focus point exclusion was also customizable (meaning I could change it to every third, fourth, fifth, etc.)