Z6 ii and Z7 ii

Pistnbroke

The most appropriate comment I have seen was a bit WTF that the Z7ii and Z6ii are now what the cameras should have been when introduced ...that means Nikon is still 2 years behind.......

photobunny

It is very easy to say what they should have been 2 years ago, but does that mean the R and RP should have been the R5 and R6 2 years ago? The Z6 and Z7 are better cameras than the R and RP, they were the second best mirrorless full frame cameras until but a few months ago.

They didn't until recently need to do much to beat Canon and listened to the feedback, made better cameras, and at some point during the development we had the R5 and R6 leapfrog everyone with their new sensors and processor. If you are just buying into a system now, you are probably best off with Canon as they are the market leaders. However, Nikon aren't so far behind now and have the the compelling glass with capable bodies. The Z6II and Z7II aren't overly exciting, but they fix everything that was asked of them and then some.

What was expected? A Sony A9 equivalent? A Canon R1 before the R1? Them to anticipate Canon where going to leapfrog everyone with a processor that could replace two of already the fastest processors out there?

rmp

Can older CF and SD cards be used in the new slots? I know the speed will not be available, but can the older cards still be used?

photobunny

rmp said:

Can older CF and SD cards be used in the new slots? I know the speed will not be available, but can the older cards still be used?

XQD, CF Express and any SD card. Though even the fastest UHS-II card is lower than a XQD and much slower than a CF Express card so you may find the experience miserable.

CF and CFast won't work, these are physically bigger and completely incompatible with CF Express.

mhedges

photobunny said:

It is very easy to say what they should have been 2 years ago, but does that mean the R and RP should have been the R5 and R6 2 years ago? The Z6 and Z7 are better cameras than the R and RP, they were the second best mirrorless full frame cameras until but a few months ago.

Exactly. And let's see how they are in hand before saying they are still two years behind.

I'm reminded of when I got an iPhone 4 - I instantly felt that this was what the first iPhone should really have been. It was just so much better. But that's not how tech introductions work. You have to put a product out on the market and you iterate upon it.

Similarly one could say that Sony's first FF should have been the A7III. The earlier 2 cameras were pretty awful both in comparison to it and to the DSLR's on the market. They had to keep improving to get to where they are now.

PB_PM

rmp said:

Can older CF and SD cards be used in the new slots? I know the speed will not be available, but can the older cards still be used?

CF cards won’t fit, it’s a dead format now, so no on that front. SD cards will work, since they are backwards compatible. As long was you have cards with 60MBs write speeds it should be fine. You won’t get as long a burst as faster cards, but if you don’t rely on holding the down the shutter for 5-10 seconds at a time you can get by.

rmp

Thanks. I guess I will give away my old CF cards.

photobunny

rmp said:

Thanks. I guess I will give away my old CF cards.

Depending where you are from, you might find a QXD card in the box. The Z6 came with a 64 GB one and I only paid £1399 for mine new.

tc88

Canon is an interesting case. They seem to be able to maintain pretty much the market share with inferior cameras. They must have been doing something right. Unfortunately, Nikon hasn't been able to duplicate the feat.

There is also the performance/price ratio. When Canon put out inferior products like RP, they seem to be competitively priced. I think Canon's planning department is way better than their Nikon counter part.

photobunny

@tc88 Canon cameras are always workhorses and they put out lenses that just aren't anywhere else like a whole line up of tilt shift and the MPE-65. But mostly they keep their market share because they have it, everyone knows the brand and you can buy a Canon printer to go with it.

The camera shop seven shelves to Canon out of 10 and the EOS M line is super popular even if it is crap and dead end to a pro.

The RP is also an interesting thing as we call it inferior, but the 5D was also inferior, yet both put FF into entirely new price categories. I remember the 5D and 5DII put out things no one else had. The Canon 300mm f/2.8 L was also something no one else had in 1988. That marketshare is earned. Even just painting the lens white and putting a red ring on it, non pro's know that means a professional camera.

tc88

@photobunny, yes I agree. Canon just seems to know what it is doing, from marketing with stores, pricing, compensating its weakness in one area with strength in another, etc. Just seem to be a smarter run company. Though sometimes i feel it may be built on "pillars of sand, pillars of salt".

donaldejose

Quite the statements. Even a bit scary and makes me wonder if I should buy a Canon Body and lens just to see what this is all about.

"Canon has won. Nikon lacks the budget to develop what we need. I wouldn't let friends throw any more major money into Nikon mirrorless; I'd upgrade to Canon as soon as you can." and

"Yes, I'm suggesting no one buy any more Z full frame bodies or lenses. The prudent thing is to save that money and jump up to Canon when you can. I don't want you people to come crying to me in a couple of years asking why I didn't warn you today to stop throwing money at Nikon in the hope that they magically will leapfrog back to life.

Lots of you are old-timers like me who remember back when Nikon was number one in news and sports, the 1960s through 1990s. Well, it's not 1983 anymore. You really have to work had to find anything quality-made of metal or Made in Japan with Nikon. Almost everything from Nikon today is offshored plastic; throwaway gear to use a few years and forget.

Heck, it's not 2013 anymore either. Sony is history, too. With the EOS R5 and R6 Sony still hasn't caught up, and their ergonomics and menus were awful, and their color rendition second rate to Nikon and Canon.

I shoot all this stuff every day so the differences are obvious. My EOS R5 and R6 have clairvoyant, instant autofocus, great pictures, great tech support, superb handling and ergonomics and almost everything in the Canon system is quality-made in Japan. My Z7 lenses are offshored (even my Z 70-200/2.8 is now dumped-out to Thailand), and the Z7's autofocus is really slow and crummy by comparison. When you shoot all these all the time it makes me much less accepting of iffy autofocus; even the R6 is in a completely different class than the Z7 if anything's moving or if you have a group of people.

So go ahead, keep buying Nikon and Sony. I'll keep reporting on them as I always have, and it will keep giving Canon competition to keep them on their toes. It just bugs me when I've had to spend the past two days reporting on Nikon's old news instead of something innovative."

This guy does more comparisons and has a lot more years of experience than most of the other reviewers.

https://kenrockwell.com/tech/00-new-today.htm

PB_PM

Just nutty Ken, who posts the best reviews for the highest bidder, take it with that in mind.

tc88

That's why I don't care about reading anything that guy writes. Even if there is anything meaningful, it's probably lost in the incoherent writings.

@donaldejose, I suppose you are reading it purely for amusement.

PB_PM

No kidding, he calls Sony dead, when Canon finally passed Sony's old stuff. When Sony refreshes the lineup early next year, I'm sure he'll have to eat his words.

photobunny

,

PB_PM said:

No kidding, he calls Sony dead, when Canon finally passed Sony's old stuff. When Sony refreshes the lineup early next year, I'm sure he'll have to eat his words.

Sony updating their stuff wouldn't move them from 'others' on Canon's competitor breakdown /s

donaldejose

Ken has a sense of humor in which he over-exaggerates things. But I don't think that is what is going on in this passage. I think he is saying that while Sony is ahead in certain technical aspects such as eye AF it lags behind in the overall user experience. Ken R is saying in the practical real world Canon now is far superior to Nikon and will remain so because Canon has a much larger R&D budget than Nikon has. Thus, it is time to jump ship and get on the Canon bandwagon. Ken is issuing a serious warning. I noticed that his reviews started tilting to Canon a few years ago. He would say things like a certain Canon body was the best camera and a certain Nikon body had the best overall image quality in the market at the time. Considering what I do with photography I will stay with Nikon. Even if it is not "tops" in many ways it is more then sufficient for my needs. In other words, the weakest link in my system is me, not my Nikon equipment. I have yet to exhaust the capabilities of Nikon bodies I purchased many years ago. I am now 74. If I was much younger I might switch systems. Ken Wheeler will be buying a Z6 II and it will be interesting to see what he says about it. Most of the other youtuber photographers have moved to Canon. Who is primarily using Nikon anymore? Daniel Norton does use a Z6 among other systems.

photobunny

donaldejose said:

Ken has a sense of humor in which he over-exaggerates things. But I don't think that is what is going on in this passage. I think he is saying that while Sony is ahead in certain technical aspects such as eye AF it lags behind in the overall user experience. Ken R is saying in the practical real world Canon now is far superior to Nikon and will remain so because Canon has a much larger R&D budget than Nikon has. Thus, it is time to jump ship and get on the Canon bandwagon. Ken is issuing a serious warning. I noticed that his reviews started tilting to Canon a few years ago. He would say things like a certain Canon body was the best camera and a certain Nikon body had the best overall image quality in the market at the time. Considering what I do with photography I will stay with Nikon. Even if it is not "tops" in many ways it is more then sufficient for my needs. In other words, the weakest link in my system is me, not my Nikon equipment. I have yet to exhaust the capabilities of Nikon bodies I purchased many years ago. I am now 74. If I was much younger I might switch systems. Ken Wheeler will be buying a Z6 II and it will be interesting to see what he says about it. Most of the other youtuber photographers have moved to Canon. Who is primarily using Nikon anymore? Daniel Norton does use a Z6 among other systems.

If Canon had a 500mm f/5.6 DO I probably wouldn't have considered the switch to Nikon. Though I did fall in love with the Z6 and it is one of the best bodies to use I have ever had. It just feels right. If it came with a built in grip it would be my perfect camera. Till then the massive boost to AF that the mark ii has will pull out some pocket change and there good little extra boost trade in program just now so my Z6 knocks about half the cost of the mark ii off.

rmp

I love my Z7, 24-70 f4 combination. In my hands, it produces the best pictures I have ever taken. The sharpness, clarity, and colors are top notch.

There is no way I will switch to any other brand.

I am buying the Z6 II and a 70-200 f2.8 to make my "travel kit." And, I will be switching all my older F mount lenses to the new lenses. Glass rules!

tc88

@donaldejose, I don't know if KR is comparing Canon with Sony, or Canon with Nikon. But I feel user experience is easier to catch up, while technology leadership is harder to achieve for camera makers. Over the years, by just observing the pictures, I have seen plenty of landscape photographers moved away from Canon due to DR and resolution limitations. So I don't think Canon is doing that well in every domain.

donaldejose said:

In other words, the weakest link in my system is me, not my Nikon equipment. I have yet to exhaust the capabilities of Nikon bodies I purchased many years ago.

I know many people say that, but I just find it to be not right. In my opinion, your photography is a multiplication of your equipment and your capability. It doesn't matter whether you used the full capability of your equipment or not. Things like DR and AF can help even a a crappy photographer.

photobunny

@tc88 I kinda agree there. But perhaps no on DR and AF, I worked for a decade on one AF point and just focused and recomposed to success. But more AF points and them going into every corner has helped a lot to get better pictures and longer lenses has helped me get better pictures.

I keep hearing photographers saying all you need is a camera and a 50mm lens... I don't think I can photograph a squirrel with a 50mm lens.

edit: I'll add that the new gear has big time reduced the entry to photography. Getting an eye in focus with the Canon 5DII and 300mm L f/2.8 was much harder than moving the joystick over the eye so I just have to worry about composition.

tc88

@photobunny, I think we are in agreement. When you said that more AF points has helped a lot means that better equipment can help you get better output even if your skill level doesn't change.

donaldejose

Wouldn't we have to spend some time with a new Canon body and a few lenses to have a educated opinion as to a valid comparison between them and a new Nikon? Seems logical we would have to have that "real word" experience with both to have a valid opinion. I don't have that experience and think perhaps no one here does. Ken Rockwell does. Shouldn't that count for something?

photobunny

Ken Rockwell hasn't got a Z6 or Z7 II. The people with these have non final firmware but already you can see the AF and just about everything is vastly improved. Even just the eye AF box sticking to the eyes during fast movement instead of being a wee bit behind

tc88

@donaldejose, you have to look at someone's track record. If someone has been talking BS for years, my expectation is that the next article he writes will also be BS, whether he has all the equipment or not.