Z6 ii and Z7 ii

Pistnbroke

The total sell out of D850 in the US means a lot of people not going to buy into Z

retread

I have been waiting for a D880. Hope it comes at a price I can afford.

photobunny

retread said:

I have been waiting for a D880. Hope it comes at a price I can afford.

I suspect Nikon may not produce it, unless the Z7ii flops.

mhedges

I think it will come but expect it to be pretty expensive.

Pistnbroke

The first grey Z6ii have appeared at £1700 ..out of stock within 24 hrs

Pistnbroke

Maybe the Z6ii/7ii are not out the woods yet. I was sent a DPR review and cutting it down they are saying dont expect D850 focus performance. While the processors are up to the job it seems the on-sensor AF abilities are now the road block in the system as far as AF performance is concerned.
Up side of that is that the Z8 will need a new sensor which could be the 60mp .
Downside is with the Z7 at $2999 that puts the Z8 at $3500+ ..too much which makes me look at the D850 at only $1800 grey.

Interesting times

WestEndFoto

Pistnbroke said:

Maybe the Z6ii/7ii are not out the woods yet. I was sent a DPR review and cutting it down they are saying dont expect D850 focus performance. While the processors are up to the job it seems the on-sensor AF abilities are now the road block in the system as far as AF performance is concerned.
Up side of that is that the Z8 will need a new sensor which could be the 60mp .
Downside is with the Z7 at $2999 that puts the Z8 at $3500+ ..too much which makes me look at the D850 at only $1800 grey.

Interesting times

Where do you see that on DPreview. I don't see it.

I would not expect the Z8 to be anything less than $4,000 and it could be much higher. After all, what can Nikon add to a Z 7ii for $500 that would make it a compelling upgrade from a Z 7ii? Or $1,000 for that matter?

photobunny

Pistnbroke said:

Maybe the Z6ii/7ii are not out the woods yet. I was sent a DPR review and cutting it down they are saying dont expect D850 focus performance. While the processors are up to the job it seems the on-sensor AF abilities are now the road block in the system as far as AF performance is concerned.
Up side of that is that the Z8 will need a new sensor which could be the 60mp .
Downside is with the Z7 at $2999 that puts the Z8 at $3500+ ..too much which makes me look at the D850 at only $1800 grey.

Interesting times

I don't see any announcements that Nikon are developing a 60MP sensor. They only use Sony designed sensors in the low end models. The Z7iii could have a new 45MP sensor or a 50MP sensor. If there is a Z8, it would need to be way ahead off the 7 series so perhaps a new 80 or 100MP sensor.

WestEndFoto

photobunny said:

Pistnbroke said:

Maybe the Z6ii/7ii are not out the woods yet. I was sent a DPR review and cutting it down they are saying dont expect D850 focus performance. While the processors are up to the job it seems the on-sensor AF abilities are now the road block in the system as far as AF performance is concerned.
Up side of that is that the Z8 will need a new sensor which could be the 60mp .
Downside is with the Z7 at $2999 that puts the Z8 at $3500+ ..too much which makes me look at the D850 at only $1800 grey.

Interesting times

I don't see any announcements that Nikon are developing a 60MP sensor. They only use Sony designed sensors in the low end models. The Z7iii could have a new 45MP sensor or a 50MP sensor. If there is a Z8, it would need to be way ahead off the 7 series so perhaps a new 80 or 100MP sensor.

Or maybe they will give you these options:

Z 6iii - 24mp sensor
Zx 6iii - 48mp sensor
Zr 6iii - 96mp sensor

Z 7iii - 24mp sensor
Zx 7iii - 48mp sensor
Zr 7iii - 96mp sensor

Z 8 - 24mp sensor
Zx 8 - 48mp sensor
Zr 8 - 96mp sensor

How to differentiate the 6, 7 and 8 series?

They keep the 6 series with the same form factor as always with an optional grip.

They merge the 7 series with its grip and add GPS, radio transmitter, internal SSD for backup - bye bye second card slot. This is an idea of Thom's that I think is a great one.

The 8 series is the new pro body - fully loaded and a good hammer if you need it.

photobunny

@WestEndFoto that sounds way more complicated than just having Z1 to Z9 being low end to high end. The Z6 and Z7 series are your bang for buck middle of the road. The Z5 is entry level and crippled with SD cards or lower build. The Z9 is your global shutter speed king.

If we look at the market leader. We have RP -> R6 -> R5 -> and room for a R3 high MP and R1 sports body. Keeping it simple is the way to go. When it comes to a user wanting a 95MP sensor, they is no reason to have a Zr 7 vs a Zr 6 in your example. 96MP users are going to shoot at ISO 64.

WestEndFoto

What do you think should differentiate the numbers? And what happens if you want high resolution in a cheaper body (Z6r)?

Anyways. Perhaps Nikon will see it your way. I am just trying to think outside the box, which the Z gives us an opportunity to do. We may not see a DSLR way of thinking.

photobunny

WestEndFoto said:

What do you think should differentiate the numbers? And what happens if you want high resolution in a cheaper body (Z6r)?



Anyways. Perhaps Nikon will see it your way. I am just trying to think outside the box, which the Z gives us an opportunity to do. We may not see a DSLR way of thinking.

The Z8 and Z9 may have the same bodies at the Z6 and Z7. All sharing the same grip.

WestEndFoto

Maybe. What will a D6 or D850 shooter think? Those bodies are the reasons that I am not excited about the Z6 or Z7. Too small and missing some buttons, even with the grip.

You will notice that I have not committed to Z yet. In my scenario, I will buy the Z 6ii first with and FTZ adapter for my AIS and D lenses. In the last two weeks I have added excellent condition 85 1.4D, 85 2.0AIS, 105 2.5 AIS, 135 2.8 AIS, 180 2.8AIS and 200 4.0AIS lenses to my collection, which already included a 15 3.5 AIS, 20 2.8AIS, 24 2.8AIS, 28 2.8AIS, 40 2.0 Ultron, 50 1.2 AIS, 135 DC 2.0 and 400 5.6 AIS. I am still looking for an excellent condition 50 1.8 AIS (the all Métal one that was only sold in Japan), 85 1.4AIS, 85 1.8 AIS, 105 1.8 AIS and maybe the 58 1.2AIS if I can wrap my head around the price.

These 18+ AIS/D lenses will be my walk around collection that I will use with the Z 6ii and maybe a Z 7ii with FTZ adapters permanetly attached to shoot in MF. The viewfinder based focus peaking is excellent.

What about a high resolution D6 or “ D850 w/grip” style body to shoot the 1.2 primes with? In my above scenario that is the Zr 8ii. If Nikon produces it, I will buy it. If Nikon does not look like they will and Canon does, then I will become a Canon/Nikon shooter. And why not? I am not selling anything to switch so that cost is zero. The use case is satisfactorily covered with my D850 (and probably soon a D880) and my 1.4 primes, so I am in no hurry and can wait and see what unfolds.

photobunny

Just quickly regarding size, I don't think bodies are getting bigger. Look at how small the Sony's are and the R5/R6 compared to DSLR's. I expect a pre gripped body will be no bigger than the Z6ii is with a grip on it.

This is just the way the industry has moved and why I think the new super tele lenses are going to be DO on Canon and PF on Nikon. But even then, you put the stupidly small Sony A9 on a traditional 600mm f/4 lens.

As for Nikon/Canon, some lenses can justify their own body. Like Canon's upcoming RF tilt shifts lenses. If I am going to have multiple bodies anyway, why not just by the best lens for the job?

R5 138x98x88mm vs Z(6/7/ii) 134x101x70mm

WestEndFoto

photobunny said:

Just quickly regarding size, I don't think bodies are getting bigger. Look at how small the Sony's are and the R5/R6 compared to DSLR's. I expect a pre gripped body will be no bigger than the Z6ii is with a grip on it.

This is just the way the industry has moved and why I think the new super tele lenses are going to be DO on Canon and PF on Nikon. But even then, you put the stupidly small Sony A9 on a traditional 600mm f/4 lens.

As for Nikon/Canon, some lenses can justify their own body. Like Canon's upcoming RF tilt shifts lenses. If I am going to have multiple bodies anyway, why not just by the best lens for the job?

R5 138x98x88mm vs Z(6/7/ii) 134x101x70mm

The size is less of a problem than the cheese. If Canon has the cheese and Nikon doesn't, that could be an option. But best case is cheese and size.

If Nikon or Canon can't produce the cheese and hopefully size, then I will wait and stick to my f-mount for that use case. Maybe buy a used 200 f/2.0G and a D6 to round it out the D850/880.

Hmm....if Nikon drops the grip on the D880, I might be looking for a D850 with grip - maybe one of the last.

photobunny

Nothing wrong with the D6 and D850. I don't see there being a compelling need to upgrade. I love the Z6 and 500mm f/5.6 PF. That combo is so much smaller, lighter, and easier to use hand held all day.

But I came from a gripped 5DII and 300mm f/2.8 lens. I miss f/2.8, I don't miss the heft. I think maybe in 4+ years bodies might get bigger, but that doesn't seen to be the way the industry has gone. Not when all the mirrorless bodies have very few mm's between them.

WestEndFoto

photobunny said:

Nothing wrong with the D6 and D850. I don't see there being a compelling need to upgrade. I love the Z6 and 500mm f/5.6 PF. That combo is so much smaller, lighter, and easier to use hand held all day.

But I came from a gripped 5DII and 300mm f/2.8 lens. I miss f/2.8, I don't miss the heft. I think maybe in 4+ years bodies might get bigger, but that doesn't seen to be the way the industry has gone. Not when all the mirrorless bodies have very few mm's between them.

I am very patient. I kept using my film cameras until 2013 when I bought a D800. Except for the Pentax Optio S point and shoots that I used casually. I had three generations of those.

photobunny

WestEndFoto said:

photobunny said:

Nothing wrong with the D6 and D850. I don't see there being a compelling need to upgrade. I love the Z6 and 500mm f/5.6 PF. That combo is so much smaller, lighter, and easier to use hand held all day.

But I came from a gripped 5DII and 300mm f/2.8 lens. I miss f/2.8, I don't miss the heft. I think maybe in 4+ years bodies might get bigger, but that doesn't seen to be the way the industry has gone. Not when all the mirrorless bodies have very few mm's between them.

I am very patient. I kept using my film cameras until 2013 when I bought a D800. Except for the Pentax Optio S point and shoots that I used casually. I had three generations of those.

Again the is nothing wrong with the D850 or D6. Those are exceptionally good cameras and the D6 has what appears to be one of the best AF systems out there. No patience required, mirrorless still sucks for some wildlife cases such as sitting in a hide all day, you'll drain the battery tying to use the lens as a scope.

WestEndFoto

photobunny said:

WestEndFoto said:

photobunny said:

Nothing wrong with the D6 and D850. I don't see there being a compelling need to upgrade. I love the Z6 and 500mm f/5.6 PF. That combo is so much smaller, lighter, and easier to use hand held all day.

But I came from a gripped 5DII and 300mm f/2.8 lens. I miss f/2.8, I don't miss the heft. I think maybe in 4+ years bodies might get bigger, but that doesn't seen to be the way the industry has gone. Not when all the mirrorless bodies have very few mm's between them.

I am very patient. I kept using my film cameras until 2013 when I bought a D800. Except for the Pentax Optio S point and shoots that I used casually. I had three generations of those.

Again the is nothing wrong with the D850 or D6. Those are exceptionally good cameras and the D6 has what appears to be one of the best AF systems out there. No patience required, mirrorless still sucks for some wildlife cases such as sitting in a hide all day, you'll drain the battery tying to use the lens as a scope.

Absolutely. They are both great - best in class - and I expect the D880 to be to the D850 what the D780 is to the D750.

Personally, I think Nikon would be insane not to offer a mirrorless D6 with the size and ergonomics. It is a perfect size to fit in the hands with the right amount of cheese in the right locations. They will lose many of the pros if the pros have to buy something that looks like a consumer camera with a grip (Z 7ii with grip). To not offer something that appeals to the D850 plus grip customer is less insane, but still insane.

And since I don't think that Nikon is insane, chances are that I won't be going to Canon for this offering.

So when Nikon and Canon provide certainty on this, I will be making my Nikon vs Canon choice. I may also hold off on buying the 1.8 primes for this. I think that the 1.8 primes plus two Z 7iis, one with a grip and RRS L-bracket, is a good vacation and walk around setup. But if Nikon does not offer a proper high megapixel pro camera and Canon does and throws in some "Nikon 1.8 S Grade" primes, Canon will get the business.

Pistnbroke

Getting so frustrated with Nikons inability to produce a good mirrorles that I looked at
Sony ."Only" £2250 for a A7r 4 ..60 MP + £120 for a Sony to Nikon fully auto adaptor.
Needs some thinking about.

photobunny

Pistnbroke said:

Getting so frustrated with Nikons inability to produce a good mirrorles that I looked at
Sony ."Only" £2250 for a A7r 4 ..60 MP + £120 for a Sony to Nikon fully auto adaptor.
Needs some thinking about.

Mind it is the A9/A9ii that has that amazing AF. The A7r4 is behind or on part with the Z7 FW 3.11. The Canon R6 and R5 are the ones with magic AF for wildlife and just about everything. If I where switching it would be to the market leader, not to a brand that have bugger all lenses.

photobunny

a chap I rather respect has been having a good time, sadly it looks like he didn't have a version could talk much about.

mhedges

Pistnbroke said:

Getting so frustrated with Nikons inability to produce a good mirrorles that I looked at
Sony ."Only" £2250 for a A7r 4 ..60 MP + £120 for a Sony to Nikon fully auto adaptor.
Needs some thinking about.

I haven't heard much good about those adapters. My guess is that the AF performance would be noticeably worse than with the Nikon lens on a Z.

pcassity

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas why Nikon is waiting until mid December to release the z7II?

photobunny

pcassity said:

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas why Nikon is waiting until mid December to release the z7II?

Probably expecting to sell more Z6 ii and needing the production and shipping for that model. Same bodies and mostly the same parts, in a way one model likely subsidises the other model. I expect the z6/z6ii are higher volume. But I could be completely incorrect.