Z6 ii and Z7 ii

photobunny

From personal testing Z mount with S lens is very fast, faster than R6 and RF L lens to acquire focus (The R6 has better eye AF magic and smarter tracking, but it isn't faster at just raw focus speed. This is the S 70-200 vs RF L 70-200 which have the fastest AF motors I am aware off. But even the S 1.8 primes focus faster and more sure of themselves). F lenses feel slower and not as sure of themselves, like they overshot then come back.

Focusing on vertical lines on Z6 just doesn't work if the lines are two tight, but so far this has only been trying to photograph the MF ring on a Z lens.

FTZ is not a dumb adaptor like the EF to RF. F needs translated to Z, RF is extra pins on EF.

I obviously don't have extensive testing like these guys, however and regardless my tests seem to mirror others in that Z with S glass is very fast, Z with F glass is a bit slower. R with RF glass is very fast and gets the best IS results. R with EF doesn't make the EF glass slower but EF is slower and less confident than RF.

When I say less confident, that is hard to describe without using it yourself. The native Z and native RF lenses just hit the target and know where it is. EF and F lenses seem to know ruffly where it is and then go back or forward a little to lock. It isn't measured in seconds though, it has to be under 500ms as it is only barely perceptible.

snakebunk

PB_PM said:

snakebunk said:

@PB_PM: Can you please post a link?

Steve from Backcountry Gallery reported these numbers. He made a post on his forum, such links from a competing site are blocked here.

Thank you, I found it. Steve is a good source for nature photography.

rmp

Where may I find a good training course on the Z6II focusing system? I have a z7 and have had no problems with it's focusing system -- but, I am a very light user, no birds-in-flight, or super active sports. I do not anticipate any problems, I just want to be prepared for questions at my photo clubs. -- REALLY prepared.

spraynpray

Interesting to see the sensor scoring article on the blog. I feel things are plateauing now with only processing advances making the difference between cameras. Good to see how well the D750 stands up against the Z6.

photobunny

Well the D780, Z6 and Z6ii all share the same sensor so it would be more odd if they displayed any differences. The Z6ii was all about fixing the Z6 gripes. I think there is very much still room to grow, we just need to see what the new sensor brings and if the upcoming Expeed 7 does anything to improve noise readout.

WestEndFoto

Video and autofocus will be what drives future sensor and Expeed improvements.

If those are not important to you, then the Z5’s sensor is good enough and Nikon should concentrate on reducing the price of entry into full frame.

spraynpray

Same sensor? How is that possible when the mirrorless has AF on chip doesn't it? I am no expert btw.

I have read that the colour noise on the Z6/Z6II is worse than the D750 due to the AF being on sensor.

photobunny

The D750 does not share with the Z6 and Z6ii, it is the D780 that shares with the Z models. And we will just have to see what the upcoming sensors and do and Expeed 7/X processor. The Z7, Z7ii are ether identical or modified D850 sensors with almost equal IQ almost exactly as the R had the 5Div sensor. The next gen bodies will surely have new sensors that are mirrorless first with a new processor that was designed for mirrorless. Maybe even a completely new battery package designed for mirrorless first.

spraynpray

Interesting. Does that mean that the D780 has a different philosophy of AF to the D750 or does the D780 just not use the sensor completely?

photobunny

In live view the D780 should focus just like a Z6 and reviews suggest it does. When not in live view it’ll use the separate AF sensor to focus like the D750. So if you what a Z6 AF and silent mode but also want a OVF and F glass at full AF speed then it is a good option. However you can’t use the sensor AF with the viewfinder. It would have to be with the flip out screen. Though since moving to Z I have used that flip out screen often especially to get lower down shots or when using the 50mm.

PB_PM

spraynpray said:

Interesting. Does that mean that the D780 has a different philosophy of AF to the D750 or does the D780 just not use the sensor completely?

The two cameras use different sensors. The D780 has the same BSI sensor as the Z6/Z6II with the in sensor focus points. For viewfinder shooting it still uses the old 51 point AF system, it’s just snappier due to having the Expeed6. For liveview shooting it essentially operates like the Z6, with the improved focus speed, tracking etc. In a way it’s the only Nikon DSLR with a useful liveview focusing system. Kind of the best of both worlds, in a way. I get the impression it’s not exactly the same, because the settings available are slightly different though.

mhedges

Z6 Z6II and D780 all use the same sensor. Z7 uses a PDAF version of the D850 sensor, similar to how Z5 uses a PDAF version of the D750 sensor.

WestEndFoto said:

Video and autofocus will be what drives future sensor and Expeed improvements.



If those are not important to you, then the Z5’s sensor is good enough and Nikon should concentrate on reducing the price of entry into full frame.

Agree. The improvements now are in sensor read speed, which directly impacts AF on mirrorless cameras and video capability.

The only "revolutionary" sensor tech still out there that I'm aware of is Sigma's Foveon (sp?) concept, where each pixel records all three colors. But that hasn't exactly been a big hit so far.

photobunny

What about that layered sensors like where demonstrated in the failed camera brand i forget. But it was still interesting tech that you could change focus plane in post or increase the DOF. Canon using dual pixel auto focus and having it able to take two exposure at different depths or even exposures is also interesting to me. There is a lot of advancements left to invent or improve upon that might not directly improve the image, but could improve the creative control in post and further separate a full frame from a camera phone.

spraynpray

PB_PM said:

spraynpray said:

Interesting. Does that mean that the D780 has a different philosophy of AF to the D750 or does the D780 just not use the sensor completely?

The two cameras use different sensors. The D780 has the same BSI sensor as the Z6/Z6II with the in sensor focus points. For viewfinder shooting it still uses the old 51 point AF system, it’s just snappier due to having the Expeed6. For liveview shooting it essentially operates like the Z6, with the improved focus speed, tracking etc. In a way it’s the only Nikon DSLR with a useful liveview focusing system. Kind of the best of both worlds, in a way. I get the impression it’s not exactly the same, because the settings available are slightly different though.

Yes, I realised the D750 and D780 use different sensors and that the D780 uses the Z sensor, sorry if that wasn't clear from my post.

You've got me thinking of swapping from D850 to D780 now. I hate Nikon Live view, it is a joke beside Canons in use.

WestEndFoto

Wait for the D880 and swap up to that Spraynpray.

photobunny

After working some more with my Z6, the Z6ii/Z7ii would be a big upgrade if they can give it some bird eye AF. Much harder to focus on bird eyes than squirrel and fox.

spraynpray

WestEndFoto said:

Wait for the D880 and swap up to that Spraynpray.

I know I am the odd one out here, but I prefer 24mp generally because of the easier processing and better low light performance. OK, in the 3GB pano hanging in my kitchen you can see items inside windows of houses on the hill when you zoom in 100%, but it is less important to me than less noisy low light performance.

PB_PM

I honest doubt a D880 or whatever it will be called is going to be a big change. It will likely be a D850 with Z type liveview auto focus. Nikon just isn’t going to be putting big R&D into F-mount now that the push forward will be the Z line.

I’ll be hanging on to my D850. Picked up a deeply discounted Z6 with FT-Z this week to test the waters of mirrorless again seriously after giving up on it 5 years ago. So far so good, just using F-mount glass right now. Even my old AF-D lenses are super easy to focus with peaking, tack sharp. Odd thing was no matter what I do, face and eye detect will not work, all the settings are right. Do those features not work with adapted AF-S F-mount lenses?

WestEndFoto

I am not looking for a big change. I want two bodies.

photobunny

PB_PM said:

I honest doubt a D880 or whatever it will be called is going to be a big change. It will likely be a D850 with Z type liveview auto focus. Nikon just isn’t going to be putting big R&D into F-mount now that the push forward will be the Z line.

I’ll be hanging on to my D850. Picked up a deeply discounted Z6 with FT-Z this week to test the waters of mirrorless again seriously after giving up on it 5 years ago. So far so good, just using F-mount glass right now. Even my old AF-D lenses are super easy to focus with peaking, tack sharp. Odd thing was no matter what I do, face and eye detect will not work, all the settings are right. Do those features not work with adapted AF-S F-mount lenses?

Make sure you are in auto area AF and the subject is close enough. Also ensure you are on 3.20 firmware. I don’t have any F glass short enough for a human to try it. But cat eye AF came on with the 500 PF.

PB_PM

Yes, all the right setting were turn on, I spent a few hours watch videos on how to get the best out of the AF on the Z bodies. I was close, only a few feet away, no luck. Auto area, AF-C, or AF-S, made no difference, just got the close subject auto focus, nothing else. I just stuck with tracking and single point after giving up. I updated the body and FT-Z to the newest firmware right away. It came with 3.0 out of the box anyway, so it should have worked regardless.

PB_PM

Got it working, figured out I had kept bumping my function button and knocking it into tracking mode. Weird.

photobunny

If you are just shooting stills on the Z6 there are some tweaks

1. Change menu A3 (focus lock on) to 'quick'
2. Change menu G4 (video af speed) to +5 (fastest)
3. Set 'when to apply' for item (2) to 'always'
4. Change menu G5 (video tracking sensitivity) to 'high'
5. Turn off preview settings in live view.

These improve AF quite a bit in stills, even the video settings.

PB_PM

I’m using some of those, but not others. Don’t shoot much video, but I prefer smooth transitions of focus over snappy, it’s less jarring.

I turn liveview preview on or off depending on what I’m shooting. I’ve only had the camera for two days, and taken less than 50 shots, lots of experimenting to do yet.

photobunny

The video settings affect stills too for unknown reasons. So your smooth video focus is pushed onto stills. Changing this setting will make stills focus a wee bit quicker and of course live preview of exposure is just that wee bit to much for the CPU.