Move to the Z system or buy a F-Mount Lens

dissent

*sigh*

I need to get my 500 out and do some imaging.

webmastadj

@dissent I know how your feel. Been making it a point to go out and shoot the last few weeks.

WestEndFoto

I am pulling a trigger. I asked the local shop that caters to professionals, "What mirrorless should I buy?' and the reply was:

The Nikkor Z lenses are all, by and large, fantastic lenses. If I were to switch systems to a full-frame mirrorless, the top contender would be Nikon on the strength of all those modestly priced but very good f/1.8 prime lenses.

PB_PM

Sounds like used car salesman. Nevertheless, not a bad recommendation, you really cannot go wrong with Z today, unless you make a living as an action/bird photographer. As to the latter point, that’s almost nobody, making a living from shooting that, most are just doing it for fun, and a missed shot is not the end of the world. The framing benefits from the EVF are worth it for art shooting.

To me that’s far more important than Z glass, which I see no need to get yet. If you are starting anew sure, but no need to rush if you already have good F-mount glass. The difference shows up on spec sheets, and at 500% crops, but who actually does that?

Pistnbroke

The best way to make money in photography is to sell something to photographers.
think that was on backcountry gallery.

PB_PM

Yup, photos are basically worthless now, all the money is in teaching now. It’s not just Steve that says that, most of the big shots say it too, they used to make money from shooting, then the market for photos fell in a hole and they switched to teaching.

I’ve met a few national geographic photographers, they said the same thing. One said he used to make over $100k selling stock photos (pre-2010), then it became worthless (less than $10k a year) once the micro stock companies appeared.

Capt_Spaulding

Pistnbroke said:

The best way to make money in photography is to sell something to photographers.
think that was on backcountry gallery.

It's a variation on the old idea of selling shovels to gold miners.

A friend had the idea of getting into the business of selling grow lights and hydroponic equipment to marijuana growers.

spraynpray

Pistnbroke

Well Capt thats not illegal. We have the same situation in the UK

Capt_Spaulding

The idea wasn't that it was (or should be) illegal, but that selling tools to the miners/growers/photographers is 1) safer, physically and financially, than doing the work itself and 2) pretty broadly applicable.

WestEndFoto

I finally pulled the trigger on the Z-system.

What convinced me? The Z9 convinced me. I can now see a clear future for me in Z.

I bought two Z 7iis, two grips, all the 1.8 primes, the 50 1.2S and the 58 0.95S.

One of the bodies and the Noct are on backorder. The 50 1.8 I am picking up on Saturday. The rest I have now sitting in a pile of unopened boxes. I have been a little busy lately.

I bought Thom's guide to the Z 7ii and will be reading the full thousand pages over the next month or two.

I will provide commentary as I learn about my new gear.

webmastadj

@WestEndFoto Congrats on the purchase. Be sure to keep us informed. I am still waiting on the D500s to come in-stock or a Z version of the D500 to come available.

KnockKnock

WestEndFoto said:

I bought two Z 7iis, two grips, all the 1.8 primes, the 50 1.2S and the 58 0.95S.

photobunny

@WestEndFoto enjoy! I am sure they'll give you years of enjoyment.

As for myself, I am considering a Z6ii or Z7ii to go with my upcoming Z9. And I will be selling off my one/two month old D500, it just doesn't keep up with the Z6.

mhedges

@WestEndFoto enjoy! Definitely let us know what you think.

photobunny said:

As for myself, I am considering a Z6ii or Z7ii to go with my upcoming Z9. And I will be selling off my one/two month old D500, it just doesn't keep up with the Z6.

Interesting. Can you explain how so?

photobunny

mhedges said:

@WestEndFoto enjoy! Definitely let us know what you think.

photobunny said:

As for myself, I am considering a Z6ii or Z7ii to go with my upcoming Z9. And I will be selling off my one/two month old D500, it just doesn't keep up with the Z6.

Interesting. Can you explain how so?

Aye, though I was planning on doing a bigger post when I am on holiday (the 30th onward). Basically, there are a few issues with the D500 when I comes to wildlife photography that the Z6 doesn't have:

1. The AF on the D500 locks on the target at the same 400ms (give or take as it is gets tricky if one is 399ms vs 401ms to measure). But I get more eyeballs in focus with the Z6.
2. The Z6 has full AF coverage even with a 1.4x or 2x TC. I get much better compositions with the Z6 compared to the D500
3. The D500 has better buttons, I love that I can assign a button to single, group, and one of the larger modes for BIF and for BIF it nails focus better than the Z6.
4. With the Z6 I can flip out the screen and get a even lower shot without having to lie down with the stinging nettles.
5. The D500 is loud and with close subjects I can consistently get them with the Z6 where's the D500 is extremely loud.
6. I am happy with ISO 4000 on the D500 and ISO 14,400 on the Z6. Often being in a forest and with my 500 PF being f/5.6 that extra usable ISO is great
7. In the hand, the Z6 feels way more solid
8. The D500 has a hourglass when going into a menu, it feels sluggish at times compared to the Z6
9. The EVF on my Z6 gives me a exposure preview and I have the button on the lens set to spot exposure so I have a AF point right on my subjects eye and a button to immediately 'correct' the exposure if the background is bright which is very common in the forest. On the D500 I have to review, adjust, and hopefully the target is still there.
10. The Z6 subject tracking works way better than 3D tracking, though I would still use nether and stick to single point, group, and one of the larger area AF's for most subjects.
11. The D500 FPS is very nice, great for bird in flight but I am sure I'll get the same or better when I get a Z9 and without distracting my subjects
12. The crop sensor seemed great at the time, but I would rather a 45 MP sensor and to crop in later. There has been times when I had the Z6 and wanted more reach and times with the D500 where I have no more room behind me to step back and the subject is too much of the frame.

mhedges

photobunny said:

mhedges said:

@WestEndFoto enjoy! Definitely let us know what you think.

photobunny said:

As for myself, I am considering a Z6ii or Z7ii to go with my upcoming Z9. And I will be selling off my one/two month old D500, it just doesn't keep up with the Z6.

Interesting. Can you explain how so?

Aye, though I was planning on doing a bigger post when I am on holiday (the 30th onward). Basically, there are a few issues with the D500 when I comes to wildlife photography that the Z6 doesn't have:

1. The AF on the D500 locks on the target at the same 400ms (give or take as it is gets tricky if one is 399ms vs 401ms to measure). But I get more eyeballs in focus with the Z6.
2. The Z6 has full AF coverage even with a 1.4x or 2x TC. I get much better compositions with the Z6 compared to the D500
3. The D500 has better buttons, I love that I can assign a button to single, group, and one of the larger modes for BIF and for BIF it nails focus better than the Z6.
4. With the Z6 I can flip out the screen and get a even lower shot without having to lie down with the stinging nettles.
5. The D500 is loud and with close subjects I can consistently get them with the Z6 where's the D500 is extremely loud.
6. I am happy with ISO 4000 on the D500 and ISO 14,400 on the Z6. Often being in a forest and with my 500 PF being f/5.6 that extra usable ISO is great
7. In the hand, the Z6 feels way more solid
8. The D500 has a hourglass when going into a menu, it feels sluggish at times compared to the Z6
9. The EVF on my Z6 gives me a exposure preview and I have the button on the lens set to spot exposure so I have a AF point right on my subjects eye and a button to immediately 'correct' the exposure if the background is bright which is very common in the forest. On the D500 I have to review, adjust, and hopefully the target is still there.
10. The Z6 subject tracking works way better than 3D tracking, though I would still use nether and stick to single point, group, and one of the larger area AF's for most subjects.
11. The D500 FPS is very nice, great for bird in flight but I am sure I'll get the same or better when I get a Z9 and without distracting my subjects
12. The crop sensor seemed great at the time, but I would rather a 45 MP sensor and to crop in later. There has been times when I had the Z6 and wanted more reach and times with the D500 where I have no more room behind me to step back and the subject is too much of the frame.

Good info thanks. I certainly agree with #4; the flip out panel is great for low angle shots. I just wish it flipped in portrait too like some other cameras.

photobunny

mhedges said:

Good info thanks. I certainly agree with #4; the flip out panel is great for low angle shots. I just wish it flipped in portrait too like some other cameras.

I tried the tilty out screen on a R5 and the main issue with it is that it is slow. Now if it is already out it can be quick to frame but there is a disconnect between lens and screen I dislike. For pure wildlife photography the flip out screen is very fast to get out right as you are also squatting then you have the shot. But aye, you don't get portrait and selfie modes with it, but I haven't missed shots from that and that may be because I tend to compose a landscape image.

Photobug

WestEndFoto said:

I finally pulled the trigger on the Z-system.
I will provide commentary as I learn about my new gear.

Congrats. And yes as several others said, do provide feedback on the new equipment. Especially with fast moving objects. I do a fair amount of baseball games...grand son.

WestEndFoto

Just unboxed some items. The Z 7ii feels like a toy - it is very small. It wants to turn counterclockwise because the palm of my hand is under the body. Especially with a lens on it.

I put the grip on. Much better! The grip is now against the palm of my hand. I suspect that the grip will never come off. Never. Did I say never......

The second Z 7ii, arriving in about a week will often see the grip off of it. That body will be for my manual focus lenses with the FTZ. My manual focus set includes some D lenses, such as the 28 1.4D, 85 1.4D and 135 DC 2.0. I have two sets with about 20 lenses - one is small lenses which will be used most often. Think lenses like the 24 2.8AIS, 50 1.8AIS, 105 2.5AIS and 200 4.0 AIS. These lenses will live on the second Z 7ii. My second manual focus lenses are bigger for specialty uses. Think lenses like the 15 3.5 AIS, 50 1.2 AIS, 85 1.4 AIS the 105 1.8 AIS or the 135 DC 2.0. The third set will be the 1.8 Z lenses that will live on the first Z 7ii with grip.

I bought a nice shoulder bag for each of the three sets. It will keep me organized.

The 50 1.2S is a little front heavy on the Z 7ii - not natural. But that is OK. I will likely use that lens on a Z8 or Z9. It kinda wants to fall out of the front of my hand - even with the grip. It is better in portrait mode with the grip. Usable, but slightly awkward. Why did I buy the Noct (on backorder)? Oh yeah! Curiosity killed the bank account.

The 1.8 primes feel perfect on the Z7 ii with the grip. I think that Nikon was thinking about the 1.8 primes when they designed the Z 6 and Z 7. Size wise, they are a match made in heaven with the grip. I am going to be bitching about the Z 7ii when I don't use the grip with my manual focus lenses - but I want that kit to be small. I will use my fingertips when shooting that.

photobunny

Just a wee add-on to my previous post about he Z6(not II) vs D500 for a wildlife shooter.

D500 14bit 10 FPS gets about 80-100 frames on a Sony 128 GB CF Express card and about the same on a 64 GB Sony XQD card. And of course occasional lifting of your finger clears the buffer instantly.

The Z6 never outruns the XQD card on 5.5 FPS mode but gets about 60 frames with the CF Express card which suggests their is some issue with CF Express on this camera and it empties immediately into the XQD but not into the CF Express.

H+ or 9/12 FPS mode on the Z6 is pointless so I haven't tested it. I would be interested to see a Z6ii in H+ mode with a CF Express card to see if the write speed is better and also to see if it isn't a naff slideshow.

Ether way the D500 is still on its way out. I'll be using a Z9 and Z6 or Z6ii as my setup. The Z6 is great for walking about or shoving in a bag as a very portable full frame especially with the 1.8 primes.

photobunny

WestEndFoto said:

Just unboxed some items. The Z 7ii feels like a toy - it is very small. It wants to turn counterclockwise because the palm of my hand is under the body. Especially with a lens on it.

I am not sure if I get you here. To me the Z6 (and given the same body Z7/Z7ii) feels very solid in the hand with a comfortable grip, that admittedly needs the battery pack or in the v2 case the battery grip when on bigger lenses. But it certainly doesn't feel like a toy. It feels solid, packed to the brim, quite weighty for its size. Comparing to the D500, the D500 feels empty, less robust, the flip out screen doesn't feel as rugged, and it feels lighter in the hand than expected.

WestEndFoto

photobunny said:

WestEndFoto said:

Just unboxed some items. The Z 7ii feels like a toy - it is very small. It wants to turn counterclockwise because the palm of my hand is under the body. Especially with a lens on it.

I am not sure if I get you here. To me the Z6 (and given the same body Z7/Z7ii) feels very solid in the hand with a comfortable grip, that admittedly needs the battery pack or in the v2 case the battery grip when on bigger lenses. But it certainly doesn't feel like a toy. It feels solid, packed to the brim, quite weighty for its size. Comparing to the D500, the D500 feels empty, less robust, the flip out screen doesn't feel as rugged, and it feels lighter in the hand than expected.

I don't have any experience with a D500. I am accustomed to my D850 with the grip. The grip also has an RRS L bracket attached. It is "heavy and substantial", though not in a way that bothers me. It feels good to hold in my hand. I can hold it with one hand and I have complete control of the body. Compared to that, the Z 7ii (and therefore a Z 6) feels like a toy - light like a feather. And holding it with one hand (without a grip) does not feel secure. I feel like it is going to twist out of my hand. Half of my palm is sliding under the camera and it is hard to control it - as my fingers have to compensate and I have to use my second hand to feel like I have total control.

When I put the grip on this disappears and I feel like I have total control with one hand. This actually feels good. The Z 7ii with a grip is significantly smaller and lighter than my D850 with a grip (though I have not ordered my RRS L Brackets yet). In this regard, I will acknowledge that I think it is superior to my D850 setup.

What I already don't like is the buttons. The mode dial is a dial and not a button. It is on the wrong side so I cannot control it with my right hand. I think I can learn to live with this. But because the body is smaller, there are fewer buttons for customizations. I am going to want a Z9 or a Z8 depending on what it looks like for two reasons. First is the ergonomics I just described. Second is the feel with the larger glass - I intend on buying every 1.2 prime that Nikon makes so I will have several large primes that don't balance that well with the Z 7ii with grip. Not bad, but the Z 7ii with the 1.8 primes feels perfect. Perfection with the 1.2 primes will require a larger body.

This was my issue with Sony and why it is not an option. It is why I did not commit to Nikon and kept an open mind about Canon until Nikon announced the Z9. But the Z 7ii with the 1.8 primes fits perfectly in the bag I got. It will be a great weekend/travel combo. The Z 7ii with FTZ, no grip and small manual focus lenses I described above will be a great weekday combo - I can carry it while I am at work in a smaller bag. The complaints that I have above are just the price I will pay for this small kit.

WestEndFoto

photobunny said:

Just a wee add-on to my previous post about he Z6(not II) vs D500 for a wildlife shooter.

D500 14bit 10 FPS gets about 80-100 frames on a Sony 128 GB CF Express card and about the same on a 64 GB Sony XQD card. And of course occasional lifting of your finger clears the buffer instantly.

The Z6 never outruns the XQD card on 5.5 FPS mode but gets about 60 frames with the CF Express card which suggests their is some issue with CF Express on this camera and it empties immediately into the XQD but not into the CF Express.

H+ or 9/12 FPS mode on the Z6 is pointless so I haven't tested it. I would be interested to see a Z6ii in H+ mode with a CF Express card to see if the write speed is better and also to see if it isn't a naff slideshow.

Ether way the D500 is still on its way out. I'll be using a Z9 and Z6 or Z6ii as my setup. The Z6 is great for walking about or shoving in a bag as a very portable full frame especially with the 1.8 primes.

I look forward to getting to stuff like this when evaluating my Z 7ii. And I think you and I see these bodies combined with the 1.8 primes the same way.

Personally, I see no benefit to anything smaller. The Fuji in APS-C doesn't feel smaller and once I put the lenses on it that I would really want (the fastest primes) it would not feel that much smaller. You have to go to micro 4/3rds to feel much smaller and they are a niche because they are not "better enough than phones" for many.

For this reason, I don't really see a future for DX in Nikon. I still think that Nikon should do a Z 50ii and Z 70 with a small set of primes. But it feels like that will be niche and "less" necessary if Nikon were to launch a full frame Z 50 (Z3) with the compact primes.

mhedges

My guess is the CFe support on Z6 is emulated rather than native and that's why CFE cards slow the camera down ever so slightly compared to XQD. It doesn't take much difference in write speed to make a significant impact in buffer performance.

I have used the 9 and 12 FPS modes occasionally for soccer games. The slideshow effect is a little annoying but mostly I stopped using it because it just left me with way too many images to go through in post.

Glad to see other folks agree with me on the 1.8 primes. I only have the 50 but feel it makes a very nice sized and well balanced combination even without a grip. You would think from all the whining about them that they are mammoth unusable monstrosities but that is not the case at all in my experience.