Z8

donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,657Member
I have been thinking about it arriving next year and how it should be differentiated from the current lineup. First, it should be more than 45 mp. The Z7, Z7ii and Z9 already cover that. So it should be in the range of 70 to 100 mp. Second, it should be focused on portrait, landscape and studio work (traditionally medium format territory). Notice that medium format cameras don't now feel, and have never felt, the need to copy the old 35mm film format. Rather, they tended to follow either the square format or the old 5x4 format. I would like to see Nikon "freed" also from the 35 mm film format in the Z8. Third, I don't know the circle of light projected by current Z lenses but it must be large enough to cover the long end of 35mm so therefore it must be good enough to cover a width of 36mm. Why then limit the sensor to a height of 24mm? The circle of light must be good enough for a 36mm square sensor, even if there is some falloff in the corners. West End Photo suggested this on NR many years ago. However, I suggest something a bit different. I suggest Nikon work with a sensor format that is the old 5:4 format and simply fit the Z8 with as large a sensor in that format as they can fit into a Z mount body. Call is "Medium Format Lite." Shorten the width, increase the height and simply make the entire sensor larger with as many megapixels as currently possible. Make the Z8 a cheap competitor to the Fuji GFX bodies and the Hasselblad X2D with the wonderful advantage of not having to buy any new lenses. This could create a new category and sell well to both current Z body users as well as attract people away from Canon and Sony. Of course, my idea is far too late. Nikon has already made its choices and created prototypes which must be out in the wild undergoing "real world" testing right now. The odds must be over 95% that it has a standard 36 x 24 mm size sensor with the only question being how many megapixels on it and what level of image quality they are able to obtain from that sensor.
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Comments

  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 2,881Member
    My guess is they will go with a higher MP count for the Z8. I don't know if they could change the sensor size, specifically make it taller. If so that would be pretty neat but I don't know if the lenses could support it - I just checked three of my Z lenses - the 105 MC, 24-70 2.8 and 100-400 and the 100-400 has an obvious baffle inside which appears to restrict the vertical coverage of the lens.

    As Thom etc. have said they are in a bit of a tough spot WRT the Z8. Lots of folks (myself included) want a gripless Z9, but that would of course take away from Z9 sales. A higher MP model may make the most sense but then they still would likely have no true "mirrorless D850" since I imagine it would not be quite as fast as the D850 is.
  • MrFotoFoolMrFotoFool Posts: 353Member
    Speaking of medium format, there was a post recently on the main page of this site that someone is making an adapter to fit Nikon F lenses on Fuji GFX bodies.

    As for the mythical Z8, I think most of us hope for a mirrorless D850. I have not tried a Z9, but Nikon claims it is the most SLR-like viewfinder in an EVF. The EVF is the main reason I do not like mirrorless, though I do own one Sony A74 in order to use their fantastic 200-600 lens. I got it for the lens, not for the camera, as I much prefer the look of an SLR viewfinder and still use two Nikon D850 bodies for everything except wildlife.
  • IanGIanG Posts: 103Member
    mhedges said:

    ... Lots of folks (myself included) want a gripless Z9, but that would of course take away from Z9 sales.

    May I ask why?

    Is it the weight factor perhaps? To me not that significant as I use a grip on my Z6ll but certainly makes a difference.

    I find the grip reassuring in that, possibly due to the size of my hands, the extra surface feels more secure with a grip (and for the sort of photographs I take, the extra battery power helps considerably!)

    Regarding a pseudo-medium format, I can't imagine NIKON going that route with this generation of 'Z' series - perhaps a new series, the 'Y'... B)

    Cameras, lenses and stuff. (I actually met someone once who had touched a real Leica lens cloth.)
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 2,881Member
    IanG said:

    mhedges said:

    ... Lots of folks (myself included) want a gripless Z9, but that would of course take away from Z9 sales.

    May I ask why?

    Is it the weight factor perhaps? To me not that significant as I use a grip on my Z6ll but certainly makes a difference.

    I find the grip reassuring in that, possibly due to the size of my hands, the extra surface feels more secure with a grip (and for the sort of photographs I take, the extra battery power helps considerably!)

    Regarding a pseudo-medium format, I can't imagine NIKON going that route with this generation of 'Z' series - perhaps a new series, the 'Y'... B)

    A couple reasons. I don’t want to always have to carry the extra size and weight. I haven’t used a vertical grip too much but I did have one on my D7200 for a while and just never got used to it. Also I feel a camera with a built in grip is at risk of drawing too much attention in casual/tourist use type situations.
  • photobunnyphotobunny Posts: 642Member
    mhedges said:

    Also I feel a camera with a built in grip is at risk of drawing too much attention in casual/tourist use type situations.

    If you have anything but a phone now, it'll attract a lot of attention. Even just taking family snaps with the fc and 28mm makes people think I have a huge camera and kids ask why I don't just use my phone. On the plus side for the Z9 it is unashamedly big and people assume you are working so are less likely to disturb you.
  • MrFotoFoolMrFotoFool Posts: 353Member

    ...kids ask why I don't just use my phone...

    Tell them because I don't need to call anybody! :p
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 2,881Member

    On the plus side for the Z9 it is unashamedly big and people assume you are working so are less likely to disturb you.

    That's an interesting way to think about it - I hadn't considered that before.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,657Member
    Interesting. If Nikon put a larger 5x4 ratio sensor into the Z8 body many older lenses would cover that sensor. When Matt crops the vignette out of a medium format 100 megapixel sensor image he is left with about 80 megapixels. Basically, Matt's crop is the sensor I would like to see in a Z8; we just don't need the 36x24 (6x4) film era ratio for portraits and other studio work. I would like to see Nikon produce a 100 megapixel sensor in a 5x4 ratio and put it into a pro studio Z body. That would be a unique product in the marketplace. I think few people would miss the old 6x4 ratio.
  • MrFotoFoolMrFotoFool Posts: 353Member

    ...I would like to see Nikon produce a 100 megapixel sensor in a 5x4 ratio and put it into a pro studio Z body. That would be a unique product in the marketplace. I think few people would miss the old 6x4 ratio.

    True, there is nothing magical about a 2x3 ratio for images (except perhaps that human beings have a somewhat wide field of view, so maybe it mimmicks how we see things?). Since lenses cover a round area, it would seem logical to me to make a taller sensor to get more pixels with existing lenses. I don't think it will happen, but it would be nice. A really interesting idea would be to go square like the old 6x6 medium format film cameras. That gives the option of cropping vertical without having to turn the camera sideways while shooting.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 2,881Member
    Problem with that is many existing lenses have internal structures which restrict the lens coverage, probably for flare/ghosting reasons. They don't actually project a circle - parts of it are blocked off.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,657Member
    Yes, some of mine do and some don't. Nikon could simply start using a slightly different size baffle to accommodate a new sensor. I doubt a slightly different size and ratio internal baffle would destroy the optical quality of the lens. But you would want a lens which could work on both a Z8 and a Z9 so the baffle, if the lens design calls for one, would have to work with both bodies.
  • MrFotoFoolMrFotoFool Posts: 353Member
    https://nikonrumors.com/2022/11/11/the-upcoming-rumored-nikon-z8-mirrorless-camera-will-compete-with-the-new-sony-a7rv-and-is-expected-in-spring-2023.aspx/
    You have probably seen the new post (linked above) on the main page of this site that says it might finally be coming Spring 2023. It is just a rumor (and there is no indication it is from a proven source, so I would take everything as hearsay). They do say (if true) they intend to compete with Sony A7R5 which I think they would need to, because based on specs that seems like the ideal mirrorless body. However I find the form factor of Sony cameras lacking, even though they increased the grip depth on the latest models. I know about the form because I have a Sony A74 that I got to use with their excellent 200-600 lens (I use Nikon D850 with my other three lenses). I like the lens, though it's a bit heavy, but I really don't like the camera and am likely going to sell the setup and get a Nikon 80-400 instead (I just got a rental to try out).

    If the rumored Z8 can have specs similar to an A7R5 but a better body, it would be a real winner. By "better body" I mean more substantial than a Z7ii but not as bulky as the gripped Z9. At the moment I am happy with my two D850's and have no intention of going mirrorless, but I think a lot of other people would switch if they do the Z8 right.
  • photobunnyphotobunny Posts: 642Member
    edited November 2022

    https://nikonrumors.com/2022/11/11/the-upcoming-rumored-nikon-z8-mirrorless-camera-will-compete-with-the-new-sony-a7rv-and-is-expected-in-spring-2023.aspx/
    You have probably seen the new post (linked above) on the main page of this site that says it might finally be coming Spring 2023. It is just a rumor (and there is no indication it is from a proven source, so I would take everything as hearsay). They do say (if true) they intend to compete with Sony A7R5 which I think they would need to, because based on specs that seems like the ideal mirrorless body. However I find the form factor of Sony cameras lacking, even though they increased the grip depth on the latest models. I know about the form because I have a Sony A74 that I got to use with their excellent 200-600 lens (I use Nikon D850 with my other three lenses). I like the lens, though it's a bit heavy, but I really don't like the camera and am likely going to sell the setup and get a Nikon 80-400 instead (I just got a rental to try out).

    If the rumored Z8 can have specs similar to an A7R5 but a better body, it would be a real winner. By "better body" I mean more substantial than a Z7ii but not as bulky as the gripped Z9. At the moment I am happy with my two D850's and have no intention of going mirrorless, but I think a lot of other people would switch if they do the Z8 right.

    I would like to see Nikon aiming a bit higher and take on and surpass the Canon R5 instead of the Sony A7r5.

    I also don't see why that would be anything more than a Z7iii. There doesn't need to be a 8-series camera and the 7-series already fills in the price point of the D800 series and Canon 5-series. Putting out a high end Z7iii then a slightly higher Z7iv rebadged as a Z8 doesn't make sense at all, so if a Z8 is coming, I would expect it to be quite unique and filling a role that hasn't been filled before.
    Post edited by photobunny on
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,657Member
    photobunny said: "Putting out a high end Z7iii then a slightly higher Z7iv rebadged as a Z8 doesn't make sense at all, so if a Z8 is coming, I would expect it to be quite unique and filling a role that hasn't been filled before." Agreed. Don't make a Z8 just a mirrorless "redo" of the D3-D700 bodies. The 8 in the D800-D810-D850 series stands for higher megapixels and best dynamic range in Nikon bodies. It doesn't stand for D9 Lite like the old D700 did. Nikon should use a different sensor in the Z8 which has better dynamic range than a Z9 at low ISO. Let the Z9 be optimized for high fps and higher ISO image quality which is useful in sports action wildlife photography and make the Z8 optimized for higher image quality at low ISO.
  • MrFotoFoolMrFotoFool Posts: 353Member
    It's 2023 now. Where are you Z8? If it was coming in Spring (which is two months away) I would think there would be leaked pictures somewhere of pros using prototypes. I am currently half Nikon F and half Sony E, but if the Z8 came out and was a mirrorless D850 (with the viewfinder of a Z9) I would sell everything and go all in on Nikon Z.
  • photobunnyphotobunny Posts: 642Member

    It's 2023 now. Where are you Z8? If it was coming in Spring (which is two months away) I would think there would be leaked pictures somewhere of pros using prototypes. I am currently half Nikon F and half Sony E, but if the Z8 came out and was a mirrorless D850 (with the viewfinder of a Z9) I would sell everything and go all in on Nikon Z.

    That Z8 sounds an awful lot like what a Z7iii would be. If a Z8 is coming you need to imagine something that is between a D850 and D5 in specification since there hasn't been anything in that slot before. Perhaps a 20MP stacked sensor like the Sony A9 or a 100 MP 3 FPS monster studio camera, but not a D850.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 2,881Member
    I expect we will get at least one camera announcement at CP+. Z8 is what I would like, but business wise they really need a Z6III out. Z6II isn't "bad" or anything but its in last place, even behind Panasonic now with the S5II announcement.

    I agree with @MrFotoFool - I think we would have some more concrete evidence of the Z8's existance by now if the announcement was going to happen in the next couple of months. I'm not sure we have anything other than wishful thinking.
  • photobunnyphotobunny Posts: 642Member
    We definitely need to see the Z6iii soon, it is arguably the most important camera in the line up, even more so than the Z9 in my opinion.
  • Ton14Ton14 Posts: 696Member
    @photobunny Agree, that will be the one for me I think.
    User Ton changed to Ton14, Google sign in did not work anymore
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,657Member
    edited January 2023
    Seems to me a 33 mp Z6III with Z9 AF and a 60 megapixel Z8 with Z9 AF might reduce the need for a high megapixel Z7iii. Or would a high megapixel Z7iii reduce the need for a Z8? The Z7 and Z8 are the Nikon bodies which might overlap too much (except for price and build if they are both high megapixel bodies (like such as both being 60mp bodies).
    Post edited by donaldejose on
  • MrFotoFoolMrFotoFool Posts: 353Member
    According to the latest rumors, dealers have an invite to a major announcement next month (March 2023). This may be the Z8, if they decide to introduce a new line as a D850 equivalent, or a Z7iii if they are sticking with that as the combined D780 / D850 class of camera.

    Having just rented and tested a Z7ii, I noticed one huge flaw that makes it (in my opinion) unuseable for wildlife. There is a two second startup lag from sleep mode which means you will miss shots (I missed a coyote waiting for the camera to wake up). My brother has two Z9's which are of course better, but he says even it has a small lag. I just put up a Sony A74 for sale since I don't love Sony cameras, BUT at least it has no lag. If Nikon expects to attract wildlife shooters, they will have to fix this in the upcoming Z7iii or Z8 or whatever it is called.
  • IanGIanG Posts: 103Member

    We definitely need to see the Z6iii soon, it is arguably the most important camera in the line up, even more so than the Z9 in my opinion.

    Why?
    Cameras, lenses and stuff. (I actually met someone once who had touched a real Leica lens cloth.)
  • IanGIanG Posts: 103Member

    ...I would like to see Nikon produce a 100 megapixel sensor in a 5x4 ratio and put it into a pro studio Z body. That would be a unique product in the marketplace. I think few people would miss the old 6x4 ratio.

    True, there is nothing magical about a 2x3 ratio for images (except perhaps that human beings have a somewhat wide field of view, so maybe it mimmicks how we see things?). Since lenses cover a round area, it would seem logical to me to make a taller sensor to get more pixels with existing lenses. I don't think it will happen, but it would be nice. A really interesting idea would be to go square like the old 6x6 medium format film cameras. That gives the option of cropping vertical without having to turn the camera sideways while shooting.
    And lenses with anamorphic elements?
    Cameras, lenses and stuff. (I actually met someone once who had touched a real Leica lens cloth.)
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 2,881Member
    IanG said:

    We definitely need to see the Z6iii soon, it is arguably the most important camera in the line up, even more so than the Z9 in my opinion.

    Why?
    Because that is the high volume enthusiast / pro model. And at this point they are in last place among the 4 major FF manufacturers in that space. Sure the Z9 is great but lots of people don't want to spend that much or carry something that big.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 2,881Member
    So its sure looking like the Z8 is a "Baby Z9"; more or less a Z9 without the built in grip. I know a lot of folks were hoping for a high MP body; for me since the Z6III is apparently nowhere in sight a gripless Z9 is more or less what I want (I'd rather not have the "pro" controls but I understand why it will have them).

    What do folks think? Still interested?
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