Arca Swiss Conversions of tripod heads

PB_PM

I didn't find Manfrotto plates better than Acra, speed aside. Speed wise there is no argument that Manfrotto quick releases are faster, but once you put more than a few pounds on it they are less than ideal. The plates I used (RC2 IIRC) would shift around in the clamp, which was not very reassuring when I had a few thousand dollars worth of gear mount on it. I often found the plate would loosen with extended use as well, something that shaped Arca plates don't seem to suffer from.

JJ_SO

Thanks for all replies, guys.
Should've made myself clearer: conversing to Arca QR plates will become a question once I found out if that d4 is worth a change. So far I don't have own experiences with that head. It looks nice and genial, but I still don't know
> if it is at least as stable as my so far best head - for that price it should be?
> if the QR is as robust and can take a bump like manfrotto can?
> if the handling is really that quick or more fiddly and only quicker compared to the geared heads I know from Manfrotto?
These questions are first, then I know if I give up Manfrotto PL410
@Golf007sd: No, I could not tell yet about your opinion, but I'll go back through this thread and find out. I'm new to this forum, knowing some members opinions is an ongoing process to me.
@PB_PM: The plates in question are PL410 which don't suffer the issues you mentioned with PL200. Also, you can get PL200 with a plate for architecture, which would also not allow the body to turn on it. And the lever thing of Arca with it's double safety is really not appearing that fast to change a camera on the tripod. With the d4 you can't get a normal plate, it has to be one of three Arca QR plates - that's the information I found out, maybe it's incomplete. I would not go for other manufacturer's plates, so the question which plate fit to the Arca head is none to me.
@DJee: My mix is PL410 and PL200. One standard would be great, but I just can't see it has to be Arca. Except for the less clunky grip of the body when not using the tripod but let the QR plate on camera. I agree with you in question of the Manfrotto plates - it has good reasons the are so popular.
@sideways: as mentioned before, the Manfrotto plates with "xxx PLARCH" avoid a turning body on them, with the PL410 I never had that problem and also not with the PL200. I don't own bigger focus lengths over 200. And I don't plan to do so in the next future. But heavier, longer lenses would be a huge recommendation for Arca plates.
The L-plate is one good reason for Arca - on first look. I just can count the moments it would have been a greater help than tilting the camera 90° on the head with the fingers of one hand. And for that few moments a expensive, clunky (if used the more versatile Arca L-bracket) or over-customized RRR L-plate - I don't see the benefit so clearly.

PB_PM

I guess it might seem that way, if you feel it is important to buy Arca-Swiss branded stuff. Kirk, Markins and RRS plates are 100% compatible with Arca clamps. I known several people that use Markins plates in Arca-Swiss branded heads, and clamps, but most of them switched to the superior Wimbery Arca-Swiss clamps later.

As for the double safety, that's why I went with the screw clamp, rather than the lever. It's faster, and actually creates more friction between the plate and clamp. I trust it the Arca screw releases, especially since I carried a rented AF-S 300mm F2.8G VRII over my shoulder, while it was mount on my tripod, and it never even budged in the Markins Arac-Swiss clamp.

DJBee49

Sideways.
Yes, I am sure that the body specific Arca plates shift the advantage considerably. I have never had one of those and I am sure they are excellent.

I can't say that I have ever had problems with camera bodies moving on Manfrotto clamp systems though- including the polygonal one I use in studio up to 4X5 cameras- they have pretty good, squishy rubber pads to help here. I do think that the double screw attachment system- seemingly disappearing these days- is far superior, whatever the plate system used. This is the one where you screw in to the camera/lens base and then tighten by pulling it back tight on the second knurled washer thing (sorry, not very well described but you know what I mean). I was perhaps thinking more of the plates I have attached to my two long Nikon lenses and do actually prefer the Manfrotto system for them, they work very well, secure and fast. Looking at the pictures of the Arca pattern RRS gear though (never seen any in the flesh) they do look beautiful!

I have emerged from the shelter now!

JJ_SO

@PB_PM: none of these brands are easily available in Switzerland. Import is possible but with high costs, especially in the case, something is broken on arrival. We do have access to Novoflex plates and QR adapters, though. They seem to be compatible to Arca Swiss although I don't know to the Classic or the MonoballFix system.
@DJBee49: good to see you out of shelter again. I know counter washer system from Gitzo as well. And I wonder how the old photogs have fixed their equipment without all these various QR systems... Just kidding.

I was hoping, somebody who already bought the d4, would write "don't worry, it's rock solid". But I think, most of us already have the heads they were looking for and nobody wants to give them up.

Msmoto

The ARCA Swiss style quick release is convenient in a fast pace setting like I just shot at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan. But, this is with the camera on a tripod and protected by me, no bumping or rough treatment.

On the other hand, I used a screw type release for the top of my monopod at the NAIAS, primarily as I was holding this overhead and did not want to take a chance on the camera falling off. It is very slightly lighter in weight as well.

Dredden85

@JJ_SO Great set up!!! Is this a new 3D setup/technique?? ) Referring to your Jan 7th post.

JJ_SO

Any better / cheaper / simpler ideas how to see the vibration of a camera on a tripod are welcome. Which excludes "any just other, but not better ways".

And by the way: my Sony 828 uses a laser grid for focussing in the dark. Quite clever and accurate at the same time less annoying than this focus help light thingy on Nikons.

Msmoto

@ JJ_SO

By setting the camera on tripod with a mirror attached to the front of the lens, in a dark area, shine a laser beam into the mirror, reflect it back to a white surface near the laser. One must make certain the source, and white surface are stable, but what one sees is the vibration magnified on the final reflected image and if the camera is moving, this becomes obvious. A distance of 50 feet should work well. Should not cost more than a few dollars, but the important thing is to have the laser and white surface stable. A wall of a building works. And duct tape is essential...LOL )

JJ_SO

Why are you using an additional mirror? On 20ft distance the differences between various heads, especially the lousy collar/lens connection was quite visible. But I admit, by increasing the distance between laser source and laser target I'd see more of a movement. Also the movement of the heads between "loose" and "fixed" - some heads travel quite a bit on their way to hold still.

But then, the earth doesn't hold still, even if one could find the perfect tripod - head - camera - collar - combination, there are other influences like wind and vehicle generated vibrations.

So, thanks for the suggestion, it is an improvement for the next tests. Maybe for the arca-swiss d4, who knows... The Gitzo GH3780 is an improvement already and sufficient for my kind of usage.

Msmoto

At fifty feet, the laser travels about 100 feet and this should show almost any shake. One needs some calibration on the white card. One can also mount the mirror fifty feet from the camera, on a wall, mount the laser on the camera and the white card target on a solid wall, base, etc.

PB_PM

In addition tests should not be made on anything other than ground floors (hopefully ones right on the foundation). Any tests done above ground level can be affected simply by the tester moving their feet on the floor during the shot.

JJ_SO

Msmoto, I thought about that idea. A laser, powerful and focused enough to stay sharp after 100 ft and directed backward to the camera / tester can cause serious harm. I need my eyes. I know there are protection goggles, but these are costly. If somebody else wants to try, go ahead...

Msmoto

A very simple laser pointer works fine for this. About five dollars. It must be done at night however. And, the only thing one is observing is the movement. It is relatively easy to see a mm or two of shake, even with a fuzzy pointer image after it goes 100 feet. One does not want to look into any laser of course.

JJ_SO

With one D5100 filming the movement (like I did) it works as well and spares the backfiring mirror. I'm not convinced to look accidentally in a laser beam. That can happen very easily while adjusting the setup. Hey, with my camranger I can have liveview while taking movies

Symphotic

If you get a laser for this use, be sure it is "Class 2" or "Class II". There are also laser pointers that are "Class 3a" or "Class IIIa" which are also relatively safe, but class 2 is safer, and I'd stay away from 3a laser pointers. (in some countries they are not marked, so be sure it is less than 5 mW output in green or red. In the U.K. you are limited to 1 mW) If the beam has diverged enough over a long distance, it will not be powerful enough to do any real eye damage.

The safety comes in that your natural response will be to blink or turn away prior to any eye damage occurring. If you force yourself to stare into a laser, even the safer laser pointers, you'll cause temporary blindness, or worse, just as you would by staring into the sun. (The lasers we used for photoacoustic imaging here at Symphotic are all Class IV--nasty indeed.)

I am switching to RRS heads and plates as it seems the Arca Swiss is more secure than the manfrotto, although I'll keep my manfrottos for lighter cameras (and to hold my laser energy meters.)

Msmoto

I suppose another word of caution is in order. If you get real old...some of thee things are obvious. But, we all can make errors in our procedures. I would hope no one would look into a laser. All this experiment does is to have an image from the laser, and after 100 feet it will need to be viewed in darkness, which we will be able to observe movement more easily with the rig we have set up. The advantage of the mirror is that it allows the observer to be with the source and the projected image, inches apart. We observe the image on the paper. And if we use a laser taped to our cameras in a secure fashion, the mirror securely mounted on a wall, 50 feet away, we can then introduce perturbations into our mounted camera and easily see how this affects the image after 100 feet.

For example, stamping one's foot on the ground a foot away from the tripod may give you an idea on the solidity of the ground/ how easily vibrations are transferred into the tripod, and the transfer of movement to the camera.

All this playing around is simply to give us an understanding as to how easily our firmly mounted cameras can move as a result of the surrounding influences and thus influence the crispness of our images, particularly if we are in the 1-2 second exposure times. Generally the setup settles down quickly enough so as to not upset longer exposures. Wind of course is a different matter altogether.

Scuderia1

Has anyone with a D800 and add on battery grip added an L Plate bracket?

I haven't purchased an add on battery grip yet. But plan to purchase for extra battery when shooting all day race events later in the year. If none are available: I could always remove the bracket and shoot hand held with the add on grip. Just wondering if anyone has looked into this.

Thanks in advance!

DJBee49

Kirk make one for the D800 with battery grip I believe- and one for the bare camera.

crizman

I changed my mind,I just bought the Manfrotto 055xprob legs W/ induro bhd2 ball head. this seems sturdy enough for my price range (to replace my tiltall). If I need more I have my old Bogen 3046 tripod.

Killerbob

@Msmoto; on the conversion you have for the Manfrotto Joystick grip, the two holes for mounting the base plate to the Joystick, did you make these two yourself, or where did you find this plate?

Msmoto

Ah, golly, I have to look...LOL

I set the Sunwayfoto DDC-50 plate into a drill press and drilled and countersunk two new holes. I then machined the Manfrotto 322RC2 grip on the area where the two screw holes were located to create a flat surface measuring about 2.5 cm across (inline with the screw holes). The holes are about 1.5 cm center to center so this gives a reasonable surface to carry the load. I use Blue Loctite to hold the screws.

Also, after adjusting the ball tension on this head, it is really very nice....instant release and will hold a lot of weight in position. But, rather heavy for a ball head. Good studio tool.

Killerbob

Thanks! Too much work for a non-DIY person like myself. If I could buy the plate I would, as I think the Joystick is fantastic. I guess I'll have to switch the entire head out, or live with the Manfrotto plates...

Gitzo

I'm going crazy trying to understand what everyone is talking about here; 10 years ago, I bought a used Giutzo 340 tripod, with NO head; then I bought a used Arca Swiss B-1 ball head; then I bought an arca clamp for the B-1

( I don't remember who made it, but I can look ) I have a RRS "L" plate on my D-300s; if there's anything quicker, more "secure" I remain to be convinced; I can't imagine anything being any better made, easier to use, or quicker to attach and detach bodies and lenses than an arca clamp with arca plates; there is one small difference between clamps that I would recommend "trying before buying"........the shape of the locking knob; mine in like a 3/4in square with each side rounded in, making it kinda look like a giant torques head: I would prefer a knob that is more rounded, and a little bigger in diameter.

Having said that........I'm sure everyone understands that: ball heads, even ones with a huge ball like the B-1.....are totally worthless if your trying to shoot video of anything that's moving about; and they are only about a fourth as good as a good gimbal head for any lens from 200mm on up (IMHO) I have nothing "against" Manfroto tripods, but for my money, their QR "plates" are worthless. (sorry if you have one) I'm NOT a big fan of paying RRS $180 for an "L" plate....which is why I bought mine on eBay that looks like it's never been used, and only paid about $80 or $85 for it; when I mount my D-300s to the custom fit RRS "L" plate, I only have to put about half as much torque on the captive screw, and the body and plate feel like they are one unit. SOLID;

Another thing about the Arca B-1 head; it's very light, but it clamps with just the slightest touch...NO "twisting needed; and the thing is rated to carry a 45 lb. load; which it will do with ease, with ZERO "creep"; part of that is due to Arca's aspheric ball; ( a few thousands out of spherical, which makes ALL the difference ) a body with a 80-200 f/2.8 lens mounted, when vertical and the knob is not set, can be "let go", and it will tighten up, before it "flops" all the way over. I very seldom have a neck strap on a camera, (much preferring a wrist strap; every time I go to mount the body to the head, I FIRST put the wrist opening OVER the head, THEN attach the camera to the clamp; even if someone loosened the clamp knob. the camera can't fall but about 3 inches; (but I'm very diligent about watching the knob). The Gitzo was probably 20 yrs old when I bought it about 12 yrs ago; it still loks like it just came out of the box new, and so does the B-1; (I do keep a very high quality fitted bag from Kineses Gear on the B-1 any time I don't have a canera on it). You can save lots of bucks on QR plates if you have patience; ( my skill at buying great plates probably exceeds my skill at taking pictures )
I just remembered something else; at the time I bought my B-1 twelve yrs ago, bargains on used ones were few and far between; that has improved tremendously; I've seen MANY really great deals on them on eBay in the lasi year or so; for anyone wanting a "can't be beat" ball head, do yourself a favor and try an Arca BH before you buy anything else; ( you'll quickly see what I'm talking about )

Someone on NRF recently had some shots taken with a ball head and no tripod, but I forget who it was right now; I have at least three "schemes" for using my B-1 without the Gitzo; one is a VERY clever window mount I use when I'm shooting lightning; one is a chest pack that has a mounting for the ball head, and works almost as well as a tripod, and another option is a "fit anything" clamp, that "fits" just about........anything!

Gitzo

@ Scuderia1.....be advised; almost all companies making "L" plates make one for all of the really popular high-end models, one for camera only, and one for body WITH grip attached; also........"L" plates.......this is one thing that I have done a TON of research on; quite unlike a simple flat plate, because of the "L" plate having that 90 deg. bend in it, it's beyond critical that you get one made of the very best alloy; I can absolutely guarantee that both RRS and Kirk both are, and I'm fairly sure some of the rest are also, but I'm NOT positive; and in-as-much as I only paid like $85 for my RRS "L" plate, why take a chance on anything else ? Another thing that DOES "vary" between brands; all modern, high-end camera bodies have LOTS of little "covers", battery trays, "flaps" over things, and MANY flat and "L" plates from some companies do NOT provide instant access to all of these things, without removing the "L" plate; go with a RRS, and you'll have no problems. I spent over a year commiserating over whether to get an "L" plate for JUST the camera body, or the body plus grip; (and the one's for "plus grip" tend to be even higher priced; I finally decided to go with the one "without grip", as I use the camera without the grip, far more often than I do WITH the grip; I'm sure many people have both; (I'm also pretty sure they are probably "rich", and unfortunately, I'm not !)

Here's one thing I just ran into, which you probably never will; I tend to keep the "L" plate on my camera just about all the time; I recently bought a very "pricey" gadget that needs to be mounted to the camera's tripod threaded hole; the "L" plate has yet another threaded hole just for such an eventuality; I tried using it......yes, it mounted just fine, but unfortunately, the "gadget", ( a Zacuto Z finder, which fits right up against the LCD display on the camera back), giving it 3X magnification, AND has the ONLY large rubber eye cup I have EVER seen on ANY camera gadget that fits my face and eye PERFECTLY, and which completely and totally keeps ALL ambient sunlight OFF of the LCD even in bright sunlight, thereby allowing VERY precise focusing using live vue. So when I use the Zacuto finder, I'll remove the "L" plate first.