Nikon D4s

ElvisheferElvishefer Posts: 329Member
edited January 2014 in D3/D4/D5
Starting this thread because the D4x thread started as a thread about a high megapixel pro body camera, and not the next generation of speed shooter.

I'm looking forward to seeing more D4s details around 'improved ISO'. I'm curious if Nikon is referring to the 'improvement' of high ISO seen in the Df, or if they have really improved sensor magic to make it genuinely perform better.
D700, 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII, 24-70mm f/2.8, 14-24mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4G, 200mm f/4 Micro, 105mm f/2.8 VRII Micro, 35mm f/1.8, 2xSB900, 1xSB910, R1C1, RRS Support...

... And no time to use them.
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Comments

  • autofocusautofocus Posts: 625Member
    I wondered when somebody would start this thread. I'm curious to see the official specs. Just want to see how much of a difference there is between the 4 and 4s. I have a D4 and could use a second body. Been playing with video as well so maybe there are some significant improvements. We'll see. And yes I know I can choose from a dozen other cameras for a second body.
  • obajobaobajoba Posts: 206Member
    Very curious to hear the specs. Annnnnnnd to find out if it has an XQD slot... I can see it now "The all new D4s - just like the D4 but with (2) CF slots!"
    D4 | 70-200 2.8 VR | 24-70 2.8 | TC-17e II
  • adamzadamz Posts: 842Moderator
    I'm not in market for this camera this year, as my oldie is still functioning w/o any problems. However, I would love to see two same memory slots, doesn't matter if it's XQD, CF fast, CF or SD. I would also love to see a bigger buffer and better high ISO performance - at least as good as on Df.
  • Kyyo24Kyyo24 Posts: 16Member
    When will we hear the specs? When it's actually announced? I thought something might have been posted already since its on display today
  • obajobaobajoba Posts: 206Member
    I would also love to see a bigger buffer
    I used to think there was zero chance I could ever fill the buffer on my D4, then I shot the 200m medley at my niece's swim meet. So as much as I would like to say "WTF?!?! Are you kidding?" I can actually see the value in this. Crazy.

    Yes, two of the same slot. Considering the XQD currently appears in no other product of which I am aware (unless Sony is still using it in their high end video cams), after 2 years, I am guessing it is done for.

    D4 | 70-200 2.8 VR | 24-70 2.8 | TC-17e II
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member

    Yes, two of the same slot. Considering the XQD currently appears in no other product of which I am aware (unless Sony is still using it in their high end video cams), after 2 years, I am guessing it is done for.
    Sony does not use XQD for their high-end video cams. They consider XQD as a "prosumer" technology, not appropriate for professional broadcast. Hence XQD is only used their low-end 4K camcorder (PXW-Z100).

    All of their high-end broadcast cameras use a different type of flash card called SxS (based on ExpressCard), or use an optical disc format called PFD (Sony Professional Disc, similar to Blu-ray).

    Sony likely makes more money selling SxS for the professional market, but XQD can make sense for their lower-end range where buyers are more price sensitive. On the flip side, it would be difficult to justify the XQD's overhead costs (R&D, etc.) if there only a few products using the format.

    I suspect Sony will keep XQD alive as a big brother to Memory Stick (and little brother to SxS). It wouldn't be surprising if Nikon continues to support it as well.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,199Member
    I suggest the improved sensor will be about one stop better than a D4 at high ISO simply because if they could not achieve that much I don't think they would produce a D4s yet.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,006Member
    edited January 2014
    Nikon is simply following the formula for the end cameras that has existed since the beginning of the DSLR system. D1 - > D1H -> D2H ->D2Hs -> D3 -> D3s -> D4 were all released two years apart. There is no mystery or magic at work here, Nikon is simply following the established iterative cycle. The D1 and D1H had the same sensor, the D2H and D2Hs had the same sensor, the D3 and the D3s had a slight performance difference, due to the need for a new sensor to support video, and processor improvements that came with that. A slight sensor and processor tweak is likely what we will see with the D4 -> D4s transition as well.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • EmceeEmcee Posts: 48Member
    I'm really interested in to see how the D4s will be improved in autofocus performance. With the AF array be larger or just better...?
    D800 | 14-24 2.8G, 28 1.8G, 50 1.8G, 58 1.4G, 85 1.4D, 24-85G VR
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    Wild dream, very wild:
    Suppose D4s was announced at $3000.
    They would sell at least five times as many bodies as the D4. It's been like 50,000 a year ... right?
    They would attract 100s of 1000s of Canon customers. Think about all the lenses those new users would need.
    They would make at least 50% of the D300 segment and 100% of the D700 segment VERY happy, and make them buy a more expensive body than what they planned ("we want a low price D4").
    They would hurt D800 sales a bit, of course, but it still has the huge resolution advantage. And because of the lower price, many people would want to own both bodies.
    Will this happen? No.
    Was this suggested for fun? Yes.
    Would this make sense? Well, wouldn't it ... sort of?
    Will the price point be 6K? Yes, "that's what we've always charged".
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • adamzadamz Posts: 842Moderator
    @PB_PM - the difference between D3 and D3s sensor is not a slight performance difference. It's over 1ev (1.5-2ev IMHO).
    If Nikon will achieve similar thing with D4s, than I'll be first in line to sell my D3s and get the new beast.
    I also think that Nikon will add 4k video, as that's one of the hot dish right now. Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised to see a CF drop and instead see the new CFfast. I've been browsing through Sandisk and Lexar yesterday and both of them manufacture CFfast cards. CF standard will turn 21 this year, so there's certainly a room for upgrade. As for XQD... well, I wouldn't mind to see double XQD slots on D4s. I wouldn't say that this card doesn't have a future. It does, though like with thunderbolt port in apple machines... it might be very limited.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,199Member
    The D3s sold for a $200 premium over the D3. Let's hope for the same here. I wonder if Nikon will now stop even producing more D4 bodies and just produce all D4s bodies until it switches over to all D4x bodies? It seems anyone seeking a new D4 level body would now choose the D4s and a $200 cheaper price would't be enough to make them think they have to get a D4 because they cannot afford a D4s.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,006Member
    Reports of unavailability of the D4 have been coming in for a few weeks now, so there is no doubt that Nikon is switching gears production wise.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • shawninoshawnino Posts: 453Member
    $200 premium sounds goods to me. :)
    With recent pricing moves I fear it'll be more like D4x... $2000.
  • fatmanmediafatmanmedia Posts: 2Member
    For me I would like to see the following improvements.

    Speed - not in jpeg performance but in RAW performance, it needs to be at least 12 FPS for it to be useful to me, the pixel count can stay the same just a faster camera.

    Low light performance - this is less important than the speed issue, but a bit better low light performance with a little less noise in high ISO would be great as well.

    Memory Card - I wish Nikon would choose which card to go with CF or XQD, I don't care which they do with as long as they pick one. having two competing cards in one body is a total mess and if it was not for my D3s packing up I would have never gone for the D4 with it's stupid card system.

    Some features that I could care less if they improved.

    Video - I've never taken footage with my D4 and I don't think I would ever do so, I'm of the ilk that feel a video camera should shoot video and a pro DSLR should shoot stills, if I'm going to shoot video I'll grab my F55 not my D4.

    Interface - I fell the camera has a great button layout and menu structure, there is no need for improvements there. (well maybe a better screen, there are some great OLED screen out there).

    Fats
  • henrik1963henrik1963 Posts: 559Member
    I read somewhere that they called it a HD-DSLR - Maybe video is on the list of improvements?
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,006Member
    Nikon also considers the D4 an HD-DSLR, it is not a new designation.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • shawninoshawnino Posts: 453Member
    Main blog reporting same card slots as D4: XQD + CF.
  • rbrylawskirbrylawski Posts: 222Member
    Since the D4S was kind of announced at CES, does this mean this is the big announcement Nikon was reserving for the 17th?
    Nikon D7100; AF-S DX 35mm f1.8; AF-S DX Macro 40mm f2.8; AF-S DX 18-200mm VRII; SB-700 Speed Light and a bunch of other not very noteworthy stuff......
  • Kyyo24Kyyo24 Posts: 16Member
    Since the D4S was kind of announced at CES, does this mean this is the big announcement Nikon was reserving for the 17th?
    Since it wasn't "announced" this will be the big announcement. It was on display in plexiglass and was more of a tease...hence the reason we don't have any specs yet
  • spsfotospsfoto Posts: 11Member
    edited January 2014
    Ken Rockwell has posted a "Review" of the d4s claiming 24mp with 10.5 fps. Probably just him trying to grab more traffic to his site but still, thought I'd mention it.

    Edit : here are the "Specs" as claimed by KR

    Sensor

    24 MP FX 24 x 35.9mm CMOS.

    6,016 x 4,016 native LARGE (24 MP).

    4,512 x 3,008 medium (13.5 MP).

    3,008 x 2,008 small (6 MP).

    Also crops of 1.2x (20 x 30mm), 1.5x DX (16 x 24mm) and 5:4 professional (24 x 30mm) from the above.



    ISO

    ISO 100 - 12,800 in in full, half or third stops.

    ISO 50 to ISO 204,800 available in stupid modes.



    White Balance

    Auto (2 types), incandescent, fluorescent (7 types), direct sunlight, flash, cloudy, shade, preset manual (up to 4 different settings can be saved and recalled), 2,500 K to 10,000 K in 10K intervals; all with fine-tuning!



    Frame Rates

    10.5 FPS with full metering and autofocus for each frame.

    (11 FPS with locked focus and exposure).



    AF

    CAM3500FX sensor.

    51 AF points (15 are cross-type sensors).

    Works with auto- and manual-focus lenses f/5.6 and faster.

    11 of these sensors will work with lenses as slow as f/8.

    AF range is rated down to LV-2 with any lens. (SLR AF systems have never used the full speed of lenses; they look through anulii equivalent to about f/8 regardless of lens speed.)



    Finder

    100% coverage.

    0.7x magnification (50mm at infinity).

    18mm eyepoint.

    -3 to +1 diopters.

    Live-View LCD.



    Meter

    Nikon invented the Matrix Meter, the color meter and the 3D meter, which is what really matters.

    For the first time, Nikon is wasting their time by upping the resolution of the meter sensor for marketing purposes to 91,000 RGB pixels.

    It also measures flash at this resolution.



    Shutter

    Kevlar/carbon fiber-composite, rated 400,000 shots.

    1/8,000 - 30 seconds in full, half or third stops.

    Bulb.

    X 250 flash sync.

    "Silent" mode.



    Flash

    1/250 flash sync.

    i-TTL flash control using the 91,000 pixel RGB sensor with the SB-910, SB-900, SB-800, SB-700, SB-600 and SB-400.

    Won't meter flash with other flash guns.



    Lens Compatibility

    Built-in motor and AI coupling feeler, so all AF lenses work, as well as classic AI, AI-s and AI-P manual-focus lenses all work as well as they do on all of Nikon's better DSLRs.



    File Formats

    JPG.

    NEF 12 or 14 bit, uncompressed, or lossy or lossless compressed.

    NEF + JPG.

    TIFF.

    Video: H.264/MPEG4 stored in .MOV files.



    Storage and Data

    One CF slot (UDMA 7), and one XQD slot. (NOT two CF slots).

    XQD cards are bogus — Lexar doesn't make them, and I don't know about SanDisk. Therefore, the XQD slot is largely useless. I'll only use Lexar and SanDisk cards. Got a XQD reader? I didn't think so.

    USB.

    HDMI (mini-C).

    RJ-45 Ethernet.



    Wireless

    WT-4 or WT-5A/B/C/D.



    Video

    All of these variations have two different file size (quality) options:

    1,920 × 1,080 (full or cropped) at 29.97p, 25p and 23.976p.

    1,280 × 720 at 59.94p, 50p, 29.97p and 25p.

    640 × 424 at 29.97p and 25p.

    H.264/MPEG4 stored in .MOV files.

    24–36,000x time-lapse mode.



    Audio

    Mono internal mic.

    3.5mm jack for external stereo mic, with power.

    Auto and manual level control.

    Linear PCM recording.

    3.5mm stereo output jack.



    LCD

    3.2" (8cm) LCD.

    921,000 dots.

    Auto brightness control.

    Live View.



    Power

    EN-EL18 battery.

    MH-26 charger.

    Optional EH-6b AC adapter and EP-6 connector.

    CR1616 lithium coin cell for the clock, rated 2 years. This is new for Nikon; Nikon used to use a more expensive internal, permanent rechargeable battery that never needed to be changed.



    Size

    6.3 × 6.2 × 3.6 inches.

    160 × 156.5 × 90.5 millimeters.



    Weight

    47.165 oz. (1,337.2 g), actual measured with battery and card and lugs, but no strap or lens.

    Nikon specifies 47.3 ounces (1,340 g or 2 pounds, 15.3 oz.) with battery and XQD memory card.

    Nikon specifies 41.6 ounces (1,180 g or 2 pounds, 9.6 oz.), stripped naked.



    Serial Number

    Laser-engraved on plate on bottom.



    USA Version
    Delineated with a yellow Nikon USA sticker inside battery chamber.



    Environmental

    0 ~ 40ºC (32 ~ 104ºF), operating.

    85% RH or less, non condensing.



    Included

    D4s body

    Rechargeable Li-ion Battery EN-EL18

    Battery Charger MH-26

    USB Cable UC-E15

    Camera Strap AN-DC7

    Body Cap BF-1B

    Accessory Shoe Cover BS-2

    Eyepiece DK-17

    Battery Chamber Cover BL-6

    USB Cable Clip

    ViewNX 2 CD-ROM



    Post edited by spsfoto on
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,199Member
    I noticed it also but he cannot possibly know, he is guessing. Watch for photos of his kids or plants in San Diego taken with the camera supposedly being "reviewed" before you think his "review" is actually a real review. Until you see those photos and he announces on his "What's New" page that he received the body you know he is just copying old reviews of similar bodies as a placeholder until he can edit it with the real info.

    Everyone has been assuming this is the 16mp sensor somehow updated at bit (perhaps just with better software running on an Expeed 4 processor. If Nikon really does put a 24mp sensor in the D4s that will be big news: more resolution and better high ISO IQ.
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,298Member
    I think working pros will get their hands on these next month because of the start of the winter Olympics in Sochi. It's possible because it is still a little over a month away. There is no way Nikon will miss the boat in this regard and I think this is why they put kind of an emergency stop in production of the DF and even D4 bodies.
  • BesoBeso Posts: 462Member
    edited January 2014
    Ken Rockwell has posted a "Review" of the d4s claiming 24mp with 10.5 fps. Probably just him trying to grab more traffic to his site but still, thought I'd mention it.

    Rockwell contradicts himself in the review about the resolution, alternating between the D4 16MP sensor and the D600 24 MP sensor, and then finishes with this little jewel which is all anyone needs to read to understand he is just speculating wildly: "This review contains forward-looking statements, and Nikon may or may not deviate from these expectations. We'll know when the D4S finally ships — don't believe anyone unless they have a shipping model in their possession."

    Post edited by Beso on
    Occasionally a decent image ...
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,298Member
    edited January 2014
    Yes don't trust anyone that does a full review without the camera in hand. That and the fact that the camera hasn't even been officially announced yet. B-)
    Post edited by kanuck on
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