Nikon D4s

Golf007sd

+1 on the rent Juergen. I will do it as soon as they are available to do so.

Fritz

I need a second body but for my shooting (special events and some museum work) I doubt I 'll go the 4s route as it just isn't that far ahead of my D4 for my purposes. I think I'll save my money for a D5. Anybody got a low click D4 they want to sell?

donaldejose

Some general comments. One should not be surprised at the specifications. The S model is designed for speed and high ISO; not increased resolution. The increased ISO is probably more due to increased software noise reduction than to sensor improvements. The X model will be the one designed for increased resolution at the cost of lower fps and likely lower ISO. That will be a new sensor; they won't use the D800 sensor. How much better will the D4s be than the D4 at high ISO? Probably about one stop better. How much resolution will the D4x provide? It will probably be right around 50 mp so it will offer a noticeable increase over the D800. Should one "upgrade" at each new body iteration? If a pro shooting a vast number of images each week the cost of the body will be insignificant and the latest gear can be purchased. However, for most of us it makes more sense to skip a generation or two.

WestEndBoy

Just because Nikon has doubled native ISO doubled doesn't mean real ISO performance has doubled. That is just marketing too. Let's wait and see the test results. While I am certainly excited and hopeful that this suggests a real improvement in ISO and Nikon is strongly suggesting it in their promotional material, I don't want to get all excited over something that may be a trivial improvement.

WestEndBoy

I'll buy it if and only if the AF points are more widely spaced. Just sayin'

It is beyond me why they have not done that.

I hate to harp on this, but it's HUGELY important. They must fix this. The shot below is impossible to achieve without a focus/recompose, which is tremendously risky when shooting wide open. It's super easy to miss focus when you recompose. With a 36mp D800 it's not terrible because you can crop a bit. Still, cropping isn't ideal because you have to back up, and when you back away from your subject, you expand your depth of field.

At 24mp, you have 33% fewer pixels to play with, so aside from expanding your depth of field if you back up, you're probably going to lose another 25% of your pixels cropping, so you're down to a file of 18mp. Still, that's almost doable.

At 16mp, if you lose 25% of your pixels cropping, you're left with a 12mp file, which is nowhere near good enough for my professional work.

I find this exact issue frustrating too. I am disappointed that Nikon does not seem to have fixed this. I would give up a couple of stops of ISO for it.

WestEndBoy

Some general comments. One should not be surprised at the specifications. The S model is designed for speed and high ISO; not increased resolution. The increased ISO is probably more due to increased software noise reduction than to sensor improvements. The X model will be the one designed for increased resolution at the cost of lower fps and likely lower ISO. That will be a new sensor; they won't use the D800 sensor. How much better will the D4s be than the D4 at high ISO? Probably about one stop better. How much resolution will the D4x provide? It will probably be right around 50 mp so it will offer a noticeable increase over the D800. Should one "upgrade" at each new body iteration? If a pro shooting a vast number of images each week the cost of the body will be insignificant and the latest gear can be purchased. However, for most of us it makes more sense to skip a generation or two.

I hate to say it, but I think that they are not doing the "X" model. I think that is the D800. I hope that I am wrong, but......

Perhaps we should start a D4x thread? Oh wait, we already have one. Let's see if it hits 2,000 posts too.....

shawnino

Second major product announcement in four months where the supplied sample images don't show off what should be the selling point.

--D4s with images at ISO 1,000 or less
--58 1.4 with images at f/2 and slower.

Not bagging on the products (I own the 58 1.4 and like it) but somebody putting the marketing together needs to give his head a shake. Show us the D4s at ISO 6,400-12,800 and the 58 at f/1.4-1.6!

And agreed WEB: the top ISO number is marketese. Just because a body goes that high doesn't mean I'll like the air all the way up there.

donaldejose

Nikon must have some "standard" as to what IQ it will accept for the highest native ISO. Each of us have our own preferences. When Nikon bumps the top native ISO up one stop it likely means whatever was our highest ISO preference now likely one stop higher will have the same IQ.

Msmoto

OK, for those who may be interested, IMO Nikon could not simply change the ISO rating on the D4s. Here is my D4 at ISO 204,800 and ISO 409,600 (Basically ev -1.0 at max ISO). To obtain the best image I did some post in LR5.3, but these represent well the actual results. And, for some of the more chronologically more mature members, I placed an old lens in the image….for fun.

ISO 204,800


ISO 409,600


Opening two windows and looking at the color sample magnified gives a good perspective.

WestEndBoy

Nice audio equipment you have.

Symphotic

Nice, very nice. I don't think I can find a client that will require one (and pay the price), but it would be fun to have !

Juergen

I'll buy it if and only if the AF points are more widely spaced. Just sayin'

It is beyond me why they have not done that.

I hate to harp on this, but it's HUGELY important. They must fix this. The shot below is impossible to achieve without a focus/recompose, which is tremendously risky when shooting wide open. It's super easy to miss focus when you recompose. With a 36mp D800 it's not terrible because you can crop a bit. Still, cropping isn't ideal because you have to back up, and when you back away from your subject, you expand your depth of field.

At 24mp, you have 33% fewer pixels to play with, so aside from expanding your depth of field if you back up, you're probably going to lose another 25% of your pixels cropping, so you're down to a file of 18mp. Still, that's almost doable.

At 16mp, if you lose 25% of your pixels cropping, you're left with a 12mp file, which is nowhere near good enough for my professional work.


I find this exact issue frustrating too. I am disappointed that Nikon does not seem to have fixed this. I would give up a couple of stops of ISO for it.

My work-around to this problem is as follows:
I have assigned one of the upper focus points when I shoot in portrait and I use the AF-On button to catch my focus. for some portraits you still have to re-compose, but the "distance" is not so far.

To me that helps a great deal.

Jürgen

paulr

Common sense Rules, In the UK the D4 is selling circa £3000.00 second hand The new D4S is in the Uk is priced at £5200.00. so roughly £2200 00 to swap, Unless somebody else is paying the bill, it does not make financial sense.

WestEndBoy

Thom did not include improved ISO in his list of enhancements. Interesting.

donaldejose

The early high ISO images do seem to show a one stop improvement over the D4.

DenverShooter

I just don't see enough improvement to make it worth the upgrade from my D4.

Denver Shooter

Photobug

I just read that Nikon is releasing a firmware update for the D4. I know we have lots of D4 owners at NRF and would like to hear what improvements have been made to the firmware.

Golf007sd

WestEndBoy

I will say this, Nikon's marketing department knows how to make you want to buy a camera.

shawnino

I just read that Nikon is releasing a firmware update for the D4. I know we have lots of D4 owners at NRF and would like to hear what improvements have been made to the firmware.

RIP 3rd-party batteries, flashes, AF-lenses...???

WestEndBoy

The RawS has me thinking about where Nikon will be going. I am starting to think that the D5 will have 36 megapixels to appeal to all of us pixel peepers (PPs), but a RawS mode to keep the files sizes down and buffer capacity up for Sports, Action and News photographers (SANPs).

Could be interesting.

TaoTeJared

I'll buy it if and only if the AF points are more widely spaced. Just sayin'

It is beyond me why they have not done that.

I hate to harp on this, but it's HUGELY important. They must fix this. The shot below is impossible to achieve without a focus/recompose, which is tremendously risky when shooting wide open. It's super easy to miss focus when you recompose. With a 36mp D800 it's not terrible because you can crop a bit. Still, cropping isn't ideal because you have to back up, and when you back away from your subject, you expand your depth of field.

I get your point, but it is kind of like complaining that there are no ice-cream shops in the desert.

jackdavisphotoman

Just have to wait for the D5, it is not worth the cash for a higher ISO which is not needed for my work.

Ironheart

Only on the internet. 5 seconds after something brand new and state of the art comes out and we are already waiting for the next iteration.

PB_PM

Maybe it's because the current iteration didn't bring anything meaningful to the table?