D810, All Discussions, Questions

Vipmediastar_JZ

Here is a link

comparing the D800 and D810 ISO

heartyfisher

Here is a link

comparing the D800 and D810 ISO

Doesn't look good :-(

spraynpray

I think something is getting lost in the translation...

PB_PM

I will be getting the D810, but unlike when I got the D7100, not the first week it goes on sale... First off it was a bit expensive then compared to just a few months later and secondly I don't feel in any way that current camera doesn't do the job I need it to do.

You might be waiting a while for a D810 price drop. The D800's price held steady at launch price for 6-8 months.

Golf007sd

Msmoto

Having used my "new" D800E for the first time this week, I can say it is a great camera. OK, the FPS at 5 seems like it is slow… But, for those who want into the 36 MP arena, or those who want a nice pro DX body (me) this is really great when one can purchase the D800/E for a large discount. Yes, the Expeed 4 and ISO of 12,800 are nice, but the D800 remains a fantastic body, very versatile, IMO.

Beso

Interesting to read through this thread and look at all the speculation. Then there is almost as much flip-flopping as a good political race. Great entertainment! I am just patiently awaiting my shipment.

haroldp

Having used my "new" D800E for the first time this week, I can say it is a great camera. OK, the FPS at 5 seems like it is slow… But, for those who want into the 36 MP arena, or those who want a nice pro DX body (me) this is really great when one can purchase the D800/E for a large discount. Yes, the Expeed 4 and ISO of 12,800 are nice, but the D800 remains a fantastic body, very versatile, IMO.

You will love it, mine has never let me down, though I fear I have let it down.

On the day the 810's ship, your D800 will not get any worse.

I aspire to be good enough to take the D800e to it's limit, not there yet.

Best of luck (from your posts, I do not think you rely on luck),

Regards ... H

JonMcGuffin

I find it interesting that the Camera Store video posted up by Golf007sd suggests that the ISO performance of the 810 is about a stop improved over the D800. Is it just me or do we always hear after each new release a stop improvement but when it comes time to really pit the old vs the new, the new body rarely achieves that much gain (D3s aside)?

The post from the Chinese website looked to me as though performance would be equal at best. Anybody else have any thoughts on these claims of 1-stop improvement here?

donaldejose

If you look at the D4s reviews you see a similar thing: one stop better high ISO. One comment I noticed about it suggested it was partially attributed to a change in how the Expeed 4 processor software handled large ares of similar tones (such as in a sky or shadow) to allow the application of noise reduction to just that discrete part of the image. Thus, think of it as some noise reduction applied only to these areas in which we first notice noise because they are large areas of same or similar color. But I would think this would apply only to JPGs and not to RAW. However, I don't know if this it really true or not; just something I remember reading somewhere. The sensor in the D810 is different than the sensor in the D800 and perhaps they have been able to improve the signal to noise ratio. When DxOMark tests the D810 sensor I will be interested to see how it rates high ISO compared to the D800 sensor.

haroldp

Nikon claims to be using a new micro lens design that improves light transmission to the photosites.

donaldejose

If a new micro lens design improving light transmission to the photosites improves high ISO IQ by one stop that is great and should be transferable to all other new bodies released.

WestEndBoy

Who achieved the one stop improvement? The marketing department or the engineering department?

For example, when the next camera comes out with ISO 100-50,000 where the predecessor had ISO 100-25,000, I do not see that as a one stop improvement. I see that as one more stop of junk.

I tend to keep my D800 at ISO 1,000 or less for really important shots and ISO 3,000 or less generally. I only shoot at greater than 3,000 ISO when I want a "I was there" or "I witnessed this" shot and there is no other way to get it.

If the D810 can produce an image at ISO 6,000 and ISO 2,000 that is IDENTICAL to my D800 at ISO 3,000 and ISO 1,000 respectively, then I will accept that the engineers have done it.

I ignore the marketing improvement. I predict that the days of real one-stop improvements between generations (4 years) is gone. Maybe 1/3rd stop. I will eagerly anticipate the D830 for a real one stop improvement over my D800 but accept that I might have to wait until a D850 to get it. Then after that, perhaps never.

donaldejose

I assume Nikon has an IQ standard which they apply to all their cameras. When the top of their acceptable IQ is ISO 3200 they list 3200 as the top numerical ISO with higher settings designated as Hi 1 and Hi 2, etc. When a new generation of bodies allows for that same IQ at ISO 6400 Nikon marks the highest numerical ISO at 6400. same for ISO 12,800. I assume all lower ISOs similarly benefit from whatever it is that allows for that improved high ISO. Now if Nikon's highest ISO is marked at 6400 and your own preference on that body is not to exceed ISO 800 fine. But when Nikon when raises the ISO of the next body to 12,800 I would expect your old personal ISO standard of 800 would now be about the same as ISO 1600 on the new body. Thus, when the top numerical ISO is raised so should your own personal acceptable ISO number. Thus, everyone should receive a benefit even though they shoot at a lower ISO. The benefit is not just in noise reduction. It is in improved dynamic range and total IQ.

henrik1963

To me it is of little use if Nikon uses some magic trick so ISO 12.800 on D810 looks like ISO 6.400 on D800. A real ISO improvement should mean that ISO 800 on D810 looks like ISO 400 on D800 - ISO improvements should be for the whole range. Lets see when real life testing has been done.

donaldejose

Watch for DxOMark The sports rating for the D800 is 2853. When they publish the sports rating for the D810 we will see just how much improvement has been made at 2853 ISO. Even the Df is only 3279 ISO. But I think this is just noise. Color saturation and dynamic range may not be measured by this Sports test.

PB_PM

Or just ignore DxO and wait for real sample images.

JonMcGuffin

@WestEndBoy – I wholeheartedly agree and appreciate your comment. I will say however that, in this specific case, it was in fact the guy at the Camera store who in fact claimed the 1-stop improvement between the D810 & D800. Now, some skeptics may say he’s just a corporate slug who will always be drinking and serving the Nikon Kool-Aid however, I would say he really has no dog in this show to make such a claim without being able to back it up without the loss of credibility. Credibility certainly is important in his business.

@donaldejose – I do agree here too. As a matter of fact, I am always frustrated as it seems everybody simply just looks at grain when looking at “performance” at higher ISO values. It’s the lack of DR and the “muddying” of the image that I find is the biggest issue with increasing ISO and ultimately destroys IQ. I wish more websites and people would measure/calculate this. Grain can be worked over pretty darn well in post and I’ll also maintain that it has a lesser detracting value to the overall image than an image that lacks tonal range as well what I call a muddy picture.

My hunch is that we’re going to see a very minor improvement in ISO and because of the new sensor and new ISO floor of 64, it’ll probably be scientifically measurable across the ISO range however in most practical senses it won’t make much of a difference. I hope I’m wrong, and it sounds like we’ll know in the next few weeks. Here is a specific example of where I think the DXOMark testing can be of some use.

donaldejose

Yes, DxOMark sensor ratings will be of some use but it also will be limited. For example, how does ISO 800 on the new D810 compare to ISO 800 on the old D800? DxOMark doesn't answer that. We will have to look for judgmental statements in reviews such as: "provides about one half stop improvement in image quality all across the ISO range." Not very precise, but a few reviews will probably make some comments. The claim of a one stop improvement was a surprise to me and I will be interested to see if any other reviews will agree.

haroldp

Thom Hogan regularly discusses dynamic range vs noise floor

Vipmediastar_JZ

DPREVIEW usually has tests where you can compare several cameras at once at different ISO values unlike DXO.

JonMcGuffin

Thom Hogan regularly discusses dynamic range vs noise floor

Yes, and I'm an avid follower and appreciate Thom Hogan's approach which, I personally find, to be the utmost authority all general things photography related. He needs some kind of medal. At any rate, he recently published a very good article on the subject here: http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/is-pursuit-of-high-iso-a.html

I just wish all those old articles he had on his older site that no longer can seem to be found. So much good stuff in there. Nonetheless, more Thom is a good thing.

JonMcGuffin

DPREVIEW usually has tests where you can compare several cameras at once at different ISO values unlike DXO.

Yeah, I've seen this before and I think it's about the best out there, even taking resizing (re-sampling) into consideration which I think is great.

Gjesdal

I will be getting the D810, but unlike when I got the D7100, not the first week it goes on sale... First off it was a bit expensive then compared to just a few months later and secondly I don't feel in any way that current camera doesn't do the job I need it to do.

You might be waiting a while for a D810 price drop. The D800's price held steady at launch price for 6-8 months.

I have no problem with waiting a bit (or at least that is what I'm telling myself)

Vipmediastar_JZ

D810 Video/short film

Every Moment Counts from Cinescapes Collective on Vimeo.