D300s Successor-D400, what and when

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Comments

  • rbrylawskirbrylawski Posts: 222Member
    It seems unforgivable that the world seems to have known for months of the 7D MKII, while not a peep from Nikon. They have left their customers in the dust as they've not even hinted they've got something in the works.

    I can honestly say that if I needed a better camera than my D7100, I wouldn't be looking at the D750. I don't really have a need for FX. I really like what DX offers. So the choice for me would be clear. It would be time to dump Nikon and join Canon.

    Loyalty is good ONLY when your loyalty is rewarded. How is Nikon rewarding their customers? To me, the announcement of the D750 was a clear statement that they expect their customers to go FX and they don't really care about the upper end customers who want to stay DX.
    Nikon D7100; AF-S DX 35mm f1.8; AF-S DX Macro 40mm f2.8; AF-S DX 18-200mm VRII; SB-700 Speed Light and a bunch of other not very noteworthy stuff......
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,741Member
    Nikon should produce a true "mini-D4" with a built in hand grip and 10 fps but with a DX sensor. I suppose they would have to put two Expeed 4 chips in the body to handle all the data at 10 fps. Or they could go with a new 16 mp sensor to run less data through one Expeed 4 processor. Does anyone know what the Expeed 4 fps limit would be for a 24 mp DX sensor? It is the same as for a 24 mp FX sensor and thus about 6.5 fps like the new D750? Nikon just demonstrated an ability to go smaller and lighter with the D750. The same engineering could be put into a smaller and lighter D4 type body for a D400 (or D9300 or whatever they would call it).
  • squoopsquoop Posts: 37Member
    edited September 2014
    The 7DMKii sets a high bar for the hypothetical D9300. Methinks that's a good thing.
    Personally I'd love to see all those dual cross-type autofocus points and 10 FPS in a D7200, along with a nice big buffer.
    Nikon has to respond to this.
    Post edited by squoop on
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,741Member
    . . . and they will.
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    There is certainly a lot of noisy (and I mean this in a positive way) D400 advocates here. The question will be whether enough people will fork over the cash if Nikon makes it. Remember, Nikon will need to sell "tens and tens of thousands" of these to make a profit. A noisy customer still pays the same price as a quiet customer.

    It will certainly be interesting to see how the 7DM2 does.

    On another note, Canon only has 3 full frame cameras. Nikon has 5. Hmm.....
  • CoastalconnCoastalconn Posts: 527Member
    @Ano I was more than mad. I had been following the rumors of the 7Dm2. Read the announcement, then headed out to my Osprey spot. There is a guy I have been tutoring that has a D3S and he was firing away at 9 FPS with that seemingly unlimited buffer, while I was chugging away with my D7100. It just added insult to injury :( I'll be interested in seeing the sensor specs, but I don't think I am jumping ship, but who knows.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    @donaldejose, expeed4 is good for 12fps@24mp. We know nikon is saving the top speed for a D5, but we'll take 10 on the D400. I think going second gives you a chance to tweak your specs to make sure you are the clear leader. I give it a month, two at most before nikon responds.
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    expeed4 is good for 12fps@24mp
    True, and Sony actually gets 12 from their version of the processor.
    And doesn't Nikon actually get 20 fps at 18 Mp in the Nikon 1 V3?
    And for comparison, Expeed 3 in D7100 reached 6 fps at 24 Mp.
    But while Canon can just add a second processor, Expeed is not designed for this ... at least Expeed 3 wasn't.

    All this being said, data sheets are not always easy to understand. According to Fujitsu information, Expeed 3 should only have been able to deliver 5.5 fps at 20 Mp, but apparently, Nikon managed to do better than that. Both D7100 and D800 feature much faster processing than this.
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • anoano Posts: 27Member
    edited September 2014
    No, don't buy a Cannon 7DMarkII. There must be some reason it took Cannon so long to produce their D400 equivalent. Nikon must have the same reason and in both the case of Cannon and Nikon that reason is NOT that they don't care about customer's desires. Just wait a few more months and Nikon's version may well be announced.
    how long have we been waiting for a PRO DX without any communication from NIKON ?
    Nikon should have commincated to his customer for the reason we have to wait more ... but no Word,
    If Nikon has financial problem, I think that there are some reasons, especially bug marketing mistakes :
    - treatment of technical problem (back focus-front focus AF D7000, AF D800, D600 dust, etc etc ...)
    - the choice of product to launch
    No artificial limitations
    It's hard to say which limitations are plain cost cuts, and which ones are deliberately bad choices (D7100 buffer size, for instance).
    These days Nikon builds many of those "great value" cameras. D750 and D7100 are indeed great value, but many NR readers would gladly pay $500 or even $1000 more if Nikon went "all in".
    You really get the feeling that Canon went all in with the 7D2.
    produce DSLR with limitation is the strategy of NIKON, if you want the top of the art, you have to pay for 6000 euros
    NIKON D600 : shutter 1/4000, AF low cost
    NIKON D7100 : ridiculous buffer, limited fps
    Df : AF low cost, shutter 1/4000,

    can you explain me how canon is able to produce a such DSLR with FULL FEATURES for 1800 dollars ?
    everybody say us that it is not possible ...
    Canon has understand that sell pro DX DSLR with great specs with a good price is a good way to sell expensive 300 2.8, 500 F4,

    sorry, But I am very annoyed by the behaviour of NIKON ... the behaviour gave me the feeling that we can not trusted to NIKON for future
    when we have heavily invested in expensive lenses (300 2.8 and 500 F4) it is important to have the conviction that, in the future, we will always find the good tool for our pratice of photo ... since a few years, I dont have this feeling anymore ...


    Post edited by ano on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited September 2014
    ano ........I am only one who felt angry again NIKON during the reading of 7D II specs ?...

    rbrylawski

    ........., the solution for those who have waited and waited is clear. ........ Sell your Nikon gear and move on.



    No need to get angry

    I would seem the & 7D II is the way to go if you want high spec DX; but before selling you D300. I would wait untill after Christmasto see if the 7DII has any production issues and if Nikon are just waiting to see how the 7D sales go, before bring out another canon slayer
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited September 2014
    . I think most pro or enthusiast photographers want fx lenses that they can use on both their fx and dx cameras.
    !
    During all the time I have read and contributed the this thread, this the thing I failed to understand
    If you have a collection of Pro FX glass, why do you not want to take full advantage of an Fx sensor?
    Why through away so much information a the point of capture by shooting dx ,when you can crop in post
    ( do understand the fps thing and sort of understand, "the reach" business but is there something else I am missing )
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    ... wait untill after Christmas to see if the 7DII has any production issues ...
    Congratulations with all your new cameras, @Sevencrossing, LOL :-)
    From your updated list, it looks like you should be able to report about the virtues and issues of the 7DII. Do remember to compare it to both your D400 and your D9300.
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 993Member
    . I think most pro or enthusiast photographers want fx lenses that they can use on both their fx and dx cameras.
    !
    During all the time I have read and contributed the this thread, this the thing I failed to understand
    If you have a collection of Pro FX glass, why do you not want to take full advantage of an Fx sensor?
    Why through away so much information a the point of capture by shooting dx ,when you can crop in post
    ( do understand the fps thing and sort of understand, "the reach" business but is there something else I am missing )
    Compared to my D800 (which I love for most tasks) a pro dx camera would give me higher fps, smaller files and higher pixel density. I think the D400, D800s and D4s would form a perfect trinity of pro cameras. But I can of course only see it from my perspective.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,741Member
    edited September 2014
    D400, D810, D4 or D4s +1 The "Holy Trinity" of bodies?
    Post edited by donaldejose on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited September 2014
    Compared to my D800 (which I love for most tasks) a pro dx camera would give me higher fps, smaller files and higher pixel density. .
    Question
    If the D750 had 10 fps
    and and Nikon announced Dx camera, with a similar spec to the 7DII but at the same price as the D750, which would you buy ?


    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • rbrylawskirbrylawski Posts: 222Member
    ano ........I am only one who felt angry again NIKON during the reading of 7D II specs ?...

    rbrylawski

    ........., the solution for those who have waited and waited is clear. ........ Sell your Nikon gear and move on.



    No need to get angry

    I would seem the & 7D II is the way to go if you want high spec DX; but before selling you D300. I would wait untill after Christmasto see if the 7DII has any production issues and if Nikon are just waiting to see how the 7D sales go, before bring out another canon slayer
    My comment was most certainly not intended to demonstrate I'm angry. I said in my post I'm not in the market for a D300 replacement as my D7100 is more capable than I am.

    BUT......given this thread has gone on in this newer forum for 92 pages and Nikon has not even hinted they've heard the pleas of their customers for a Pro DX camera. They've clearly fallen on deaf ears, while Canon has somehow managed to address the wants of their customers, so my point is to show how you feel with your wallet.

    I'm a very loyal Nikon owner. But I believe loyalty has to be earned and in this scenario, Nikon has forsaken their customers.

    You're suggesting people now wait more months. How long are people supposed to wait to get what they've been asking for, for years?

    Nikon D7100; AF-S DX 35mm f1.8; AF-S DX Macro 40mm f2.8; AF-S DX 18-200mm VRII; SB-700 Speed Light and a bunch of other not very noteworthy stuff......
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 993Member
    Compared to my D800 (which I love for most tasks) a pro dx camera would give me higher fps, smaller files and higher pixel density. .
    Question
    If the D750 had 10 fps
    and and Nikon announced Dx camera, with a similar spec to the 7DII but at the same price as the D750, which would you buy ?


    I would probably take a pro built dx camera with overall top specs over a D750 with 10 fps. But if you can get me a D810 with 10 fps I will be interested.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited September 2014
    . But if you can get me a D810 with 10 fps I will be interested.
    That is coming and it will be called the D5, probably 2 years+ time
    the down side , it is not going to be bargain of the century
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,741Member
    Processing 36mp files at 10 fps will require an Expeed 5 processor. I think the D5 will be 24mp at 10 or 11 fps and cost about $7,500. But there may be a D810s or D820 when an Expeed 5 processor becomes available for under $4,000.
  • anoano Posts: 27Member
    edited September 2014
    an D750 at 8 fps was possible, no doubt about that.
    9 fps on crop mode was possible too

    again and again Nikon limitation, fed up with that
    Post edited by ano on
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    an D750 at 8 fps was possible, no doubt about that.
    9 fps on crop mode was possible too

    again and again Nikon limitation, fed up with that
    I have a doubt about that. I am not saying it is not possible, but to say "I have no doubt about that" is a very strong statement.

    Perhaps more enlightening, I would ask what upgrades would be required to get to 9 fps? We are almost certainly talking about the D4 shutter mechanism and perhaps some things that I have not thought of. How much is that going to cost?

    Not meant to turn this into a D750 thread, but the same principle applies to this D400 argument. What are you willing to pay? Then how many customers would be willing to pay it? Then what will the profit be on this line?

    And huge profit, small profit, small loss or huge loss, nobody knows the answer to that, not even Nikon. Companies go bankrupt all the time when they "think they know something". Everybody "wants what they want", until they are asked to put the cold hard cash down on the table.

    Bottom line is I have a fabulous set of lenses. As long as the camera is decent and I know that they continue to get better, I am happy. I am not going to drop that investment, nor that loyalty, because I have not been able to bend Nikon to my ephemeral desire.
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 993Member
    . But if you can get me a D810 with 10 fps I will be interested.
    That is coming and it will be called the D5, probably 2 years+ time
    the down side , it is not going to be bargain of the century
    Ok. I don't think the D5 will have 36 mp, but it is not the topic of this thread.
  • anoano Posts: 27Member
    edited September 2014
    I have a doubt about that. I am not saying it is not possible, but to say "I have no doubt about that" is a very strong statement.
    specs of millebaud ASIC are wellknonw, EXPEED 4 is based on this chip



    Post edited by ano on
  • scoobysmakscoobysmak Posts: 215Member
    Well to help the pages get to 100, lol, I will re-toss the 2 cents I left a few pages back (since Nikon didn't take em). There was the question of a D750 or a Nikon equivalent of a 7DII, I would also take the 7DII, but that is me. If the D9300/D400 did come out and it did not have the size/layout style of my D700/D200 I would just keep my D7100 and buy an D810 instead of buying an D810 and a D400/D9300. The D7100 is a great camera but if they don't put the guts in a pro style body I probably won't buy another DX body.
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