D300s Successor-D400, what and when

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  • nukuEX2nukuEX2 Posts: 178Member
    edited September 2014
    I'm not too keen on the idea of using D4's design as a basis for D300 replacement. DX doesn't need a huge body style of D4 as components would be reletively smaller but I concur with Photobug's suggestion that D750's body would be perfect for D400/D9300.
    Post edited by nukuEX2 on
    D7200, 40mm Micro Nikkor f2.8, Lowepro AW Hatchback 16,
  • retreadretread Posts: 574Member
    I would rather have a scaled down version of the D810. Sharing the control layout as close as possible. A few more frames per second I don't think I need 10 or 11 but 8 would me nice with a nice buffer. Same shutter design as D810. I don't really care about video.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    http://nikonrumors.com/2014/09/23/nikon-large-sensor-mirrorless-camera-is-a-possibility.aspx/

    "You can expect some new DX lenses in the future. We haven’t forgotten about our DX customers"
    Nikon is still "studying the demand" for a D300s replacement

    This is a glimmer of hope, and a darn good rumor.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,724Member
    No one is saying to just put a DX sensor into an FX size body. What people are saying is to scale down a D4 or D810 or D750 to fit a DX sensor. However, just because you are using a smaller sensor doesn't mean all your other parts are also that much smaller.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,545Moderator
    Go with D750 body so carbon fibre, give it Wi-Fi but make it useful Wi-Fi with fuller remote control of the camera than just the shutter.
    Always learning.
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    The only reason I keep believing there will be a D400 is the fact that none of the current options provide sufficient speed (fps, autofocus, buffer, etc) for a sports camera in DX. Within a year I think Nikon will be offering a DX focused on speed. I do think a mini-D4 or a DX D4 type body for under $2,000 would be a huge seller for Nikon. It will need high ISO (usable photos at 6,400 ISO) and speed (8fps, large buffer, etc) and Nikon should produce a DX version of the "holy trinity" for this body. If Nikon doesn't Sigma will.
    The 7100 is pretty darn good at autofocus and speed is not that slow either at 7fps in 1.3 crop. Could the AF and fps be better? Yes, but the real problem is it suffers from premature exhaustion from buffer/processing issues. Most of the time when I spray I am amazed both at the focus and that I have enough frames for eyes open, etc.

    There are 2 segments here in this thread. Those that need pro controls and weather sealing in a 9300, and those that want an improved 7100. Thom recently wrote an article basically saying that the 7100 is really hard to beat in terms of what it can do for the money, and I basically agree. That's the problem for Nikon is that most things on a value basis are looking bad next to the 7100. When Nikon puts out the 7200 they will have a problem as it needs to be better than the 7100 to drive sales but worse than the 9300. That is a very narrow window!
  • retreadretread Posts: 574Member
    No one is saying to just put a DX sensor into an FX size body. What people are saying is to scale down a D4 or D810 or D750 to fit a DX sensor. However, just because you are using a smaller sensor doesn't mean all your other parts are also that much smaller.
    You are absolutely correct. However a smaller mirror box and shutter for the DX sensor should save significant space.
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 993Member
    edited September 2014

    There are 2 segments here in this thread. Those that need pro controls and weather sealing in a 9300, and those that want an improved 7100. Thom recently wrote an article basically saying that the 7100 is really hard to beat in terms of what it can do for the money, and I basically agree. That's the problem for Nikon is that most things on a value basis are looking bad next to the 7100. When Nikon puts out the 7200 they will have a problem as it needs to be better than the 7100 to drive sales but worse than the 9300. That is a very narrow window!
    That is why the D400/9300 must be an excellent pro camera. I say roughly the same specs as the D4s but without the built in grip and with a dx sensor. Great for professionals that want a smaller body and better reach. Great as a compliment to a D4s or a D810. It would be the only way to get dx level of pixel density combined with the speed of the D4s. Simply a great camera.

    Post edited by snakebunk on
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    edited September 2014
    Lots of dreaming going on here. The only way this is going to happen is if Canon pre orders are really high and they sell well in the first 3 months. Then Nikon will respond. The BIG question, how will they respond?

    Option #1 Do nothing
    Option #2 Introduce a D9300 with competitive specs and price
    Option #3 Introduce a D7200

    IMHO Option 1 is only an option if the 7D MK@ doesn't sell well.
    My concern with option 2 is how long would it take once that decision is made. That could be 6 to 9 months depending upon if molds and a prototype exist. The D750 body would be an excellent place to start.
    Option 3 of course has been listed by several people. The D7200 would under cut the 7D and not have all the features, like 10fps. The buffer would have to be opened up so RAW shooters could get their 10 to 12 second blast at 7 or 8fps.
    ==========================================
    I would be amazed if option 2 happened. My gut tells me that Nikon's reaction will be option 3 to undercut the price of the 7D to provide a better value.

    With that said, if they have a prototype then they could accelerate all activity on the D9300 and deliver a body that meets what Canon released with a surprise feature or two that exceeds the 7D spec. But I can't see that happening within 8 months. By January 1 expect this forum will have reached 110 pages and have had long intervals of no comment. It's sad.

    A dreamer would hope that Nikon would announce in November a D9300 with shipments in January or February. Unfortunate I am a realist. Okay, I also want to see this get to 100 pages before November 1st.
    Post edited by Photobug on
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited September 2014

    My concern .......
    It is really good to know so many people are concerned about Nikon

    out of interest, anyone holding Nikon shares ?


    I also want to see this get to 100 pages -
    +1


    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    Now would be a good time to buy if you really believe Nikon is in it for the long haul.
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,186Member
    edited September 2014
    It could be that Nikon decided to "blink first" and introduce the D9300. Canon having got wind of that started the gears going for their 7Dm2 however in the mean time Nikon got delayed by the D600/D610 issue and had to bring forward the D750. So now the D9300 will need to be redesigned due to the delay and the 7Dm2 specs as tech has moved on. So my belief is that there is/was a D9300 design on the table that now needs to be updated due to the new data from 7Dm2 specs & sales plus the info on the D750 response that needs to be taken account of.

    Which could mean that if the original D9300 specs were good to go we can expect an announcement "real soon now" and if a redesign is needed then it will be a January or march announcement depending on how advanced the new Tech is.. ie it could be a new 28MP sensor like the NX1 ( or it could go back down to 20 MP or even a 32 mp 1.33 crop sensor.)

    I have wondered if Nikon had plans for a 1.2 crop sensor, why have it in the D800 series at all? maybe its the size of the Mirrorless sensor ?
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • nukuEX2nukuEX2 Posts: 178Member
    edited September 2014
    I'd say they do have several different prototypes to work with and I also have feeling that they developed D7xxx and D750 from those designs and I'm sure they are watching the preorder number and initial sales figures for the 7D Mk2. Lastly, simply doing nothing is not an option for Nikon anymore now that we have many other competitions. It's no longer Nikon Vs Canon.
    Post edited by nukuEX2 on
    D7200, 40mm Micro Nikkor f2.8, Lowepro AW Hatchback 16,
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    I'd say they do have several different prototypes to work with and I also have feeling that they developed D7xxx and D750 from those designs.
    Thom Hogan agrees about different prototypes having been tested over the recent years.
    I like your idea about those prototypes evolving into other products, but there could also be other explanations.
    Nikon has had QA problems with other new bodies, and if the D400 prototypes had even more problems, then maybe Nikon simply didn't have the resources to fix everything in time.
    IF Nikon really has had those prototypes out, it would of course confirm that they want to offer a high end DX. Else, it wouldn't make much sense to spend money on prototypes.
    In this case, Nikon will definitely watch the competition along the way.
    there is/was a D9300 design on the table that now needs to be updated due to the new data
    Maybe, they "heard" that Canon upped the fps to 10, and felt the need to match it. Maybe, they saw that Sony AF worked better than expected, and felt the need to improve even more. Or whatever .... If the D400 will live for 4 years, Nikon can't accept that it's not the best when it enters the scene.
    This is just guessing - for fun - as we don't know how Nikon thinks.
    Personally, I've never asked for more than a proper D300 update. Who cares if some of its competitors have better specs in certain areas?
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,186Member
    edited September 2014
    Just saw a quick review of the 7Dm2, looks pretty good! Sure looks like it outperforms the D7100 in every way. Cant imagine a D7200 matching it. If Nikon really wants to compete in that niche a D9300/D400 must make an appearance, or the D7200 will need a nice boost in performance and features. Which I guess is possible.
    If the D7200 does get the boost.. I would be very happy to grab one :-) and call that my D400 :-)
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • DaveyJDaveyJ Posts: 1,090Member
    I am going to hazard the guess that MANY feel the same way heartyfisher just expressed. That is where we are now. The D7200 will upgrade an already GREAT Bang For The Buck (the D7100) and of course it will be pretty much going nose to nose with the Canon 7Dm2. The feature that would mean the least to me is 10 frames per second but Nikon will sort this out based on customer analysis which to me means it will be 8 fps at least. To answer sevencrossing's question and my guess fairly representative of Nikon DSLR customers is I own no stock in Nikon. Yet Nikon is a big part of my life. Hopefully the D750 sales are robust. The low light focusing is impressive. But I do await a D7200 or a D9300 or whatever they end up calling the D300s update which is VERY LONG OVERDUE!!!
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,724Member
    Cannon's sensors all seem to be quite inferior to Nikon's at this point in time.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    +1 to @heartyfisher and @DeavyJ Nice summary conclusion.

    The question we all want to know...a true replacement (D9300) or a huge upgrade to the D7100 to complete with some specs and undercut the 7DM2 price. If it's a huge D7100 upgrade I don't expect the fps to equal or surpass Canon. But if it's a new model, D9300, in a new body then it will match or exceed the 7DM2.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • nukuEX2nukuEX2 Posts: 178Member
    edited September 2014
    7D MK.II Can do 10fps in RAW. I'd say D9300 must do at least 9-10.5fps and must add power aperture. I've noticed some folks were complaining about Nikon's decision to omit aperture control in a live-view on D7100's video and that wasn't a wise move on Nikon's part, since they were touting HD video capability of D7100. Canon have been including that even on their cheapest Rebels. If Nikon want to win back the video and sport crowds who has defected to Canon They need to address those two issues first. Simply upping the ISO and MP count wouldn't be enough for today's HD-DSLR market and if full 4K is too expensive to implement why not give us 2K?
    Post edited by nukuEX2 on
    D7200, 40mm Micro Nikkor f2.8, Lowepro AW Hatchback 16,
  • bryanD7100bryanD7100 Posts: 13Member
    page 97 n counting. Just joined so I could help this thread along
    It seems to me there is going to be a D 7200. It'll have the expeed 4 and new AF ala D750. Will the buffer be bigger? or the body upped to Pro level? Maybe there'll be 2 versions but most definitely there will be a D7100 update following Nikon's iterations of late and with the advent of the Canon 7D MKII it'll be sooner than later. I'd say by January at the latest. ;)
  • DaveyJDaveyJ Posts: 1,090Member
    I do feel that the D7200 is going to happen fairly soon. I guess I'll buy one if it is a substantial upgrade enough from the D7100. The D7100 is a little over 1.5 years old and there has been some significant developments since then and the Canon 7D MKII will get answered. I hope Nikon aims for an upgrade from the D7100 and about the same price for the D7200 and pulls out all the stops to make the D9300 the King of The Hill of DX DSLR cameras.
  • retreadretread Posts: 574Member
    I will go for the D9300. I would lie a baby sibling to the D810 with a few tweaks.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    @bryanD7100 & @DaveyJ - Yes there will be a D7200 in 2015. There will also be some updates to DX lens. The big question will there be a D9300 or will there be a massive update on the D7200 with a slower FPS but a lot less money than the 7D MKII?

    Nikon is going to make 2015 the year of the DX
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    Nikon is going to make 2015 the year of the DX
    Let's hope so. Or maybe something interesting turns up this fall (dreaming).
    The only good thing about the D9300 "delay" is that it'll be a better camera than if it had been released in 2011 or '12 .... hopefully.
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • bryanD7100bryanD7100 Posts: 13Member
    @Photobug .. technically January is 2015 ... so we're in agreement then. I also expect Nikon not to be tight lipped on it's release. Once the MKII is out Nikon is likely to see more leakage away from them if they don't keep us interested.
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