D300s Successor-D400, what and when

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  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,545Moderator
    It's just so hard to for me to see this camera ever happening. If Nikon wanted it to happen, it would've been easy. They have the sensor. They have the AF. They have everything they need. They just need/needed to reach into their bucket of spare parts and pull this out, but no they didn't. I think they think that the term "pro DX" is a contradiction in terms, or that they are unwilling to produce it at a price that DX shooters want/expect.
    ...Or maybe they were waiting to see what the other players hand is. There's no point in making something just because it's easy that get's stomped soon after launch.
    Always learning.
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 993Member
    Canon has a new version of their 400/4 lense coming out and it is being marketed together with their new top crop camera (7D Mark II). They also have the 400/5.6 lense that is very popular as far as I have seen.
    Maybe Nikon is waiting to anounce the D400 until they have a new high quality but lightweight lense ready for production? It could be something like a 400/5.6, 400/4 or a 500/5.6.
    Maybe Nikon doesn't feel they have the lenses to back up a pro dx camera?

    I am not saying that a D400 would not be excellent together with the current long tele lenses, just trying to figure out what Nikon is thinking.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,724Member
    .....Or a third possibility, they were waiting an a new technology. If it is never released we will know they didn't want to make it, skipping both the D400 and the D410 and abandoning that market to Cannon. If it is released we can tell by its features if there was any good reason for the delay. Maybe it will be as simple as some iteration of the Expeed 4 processor which is capable of handling 24 mb of data at 10 fps. I think 2015 will give us the answer. If is is not out in 2015 it will never be coming out.
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    Canon has a new version of their 400/4 lense coming out and it is being marketed together with their new top crop camera (7D Mark II). They also have the 400/5.6 lense that is very popular as far as I have seen.
    I saw that new 400DO
    I was hoping they would trim some size and weight and maybe a couple thousand from the price LOL. The 400 5.6 is a nice lens because of how light and skinny it is. We are talking as skinny as the women PitchBlack shoots ;)
    AND the 400 5.6 is a cheap date at under a grand. Having shot a bunch with Canon, however, there are some other Canon lenses that I wish Nikon has: the 200 2.8 (love how small it is for a wide tele), the 70-300 DO (a super small travel zoom), and the 40 2.8 (basically a lens cap that can also take razor sharp photos).

    I agree with PitchBlack that Nikon should have realesed something by now if they were serious about DX, but I also know that they got burned by the 7D specs last go around so there is some merit to the wait for Canon approach.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,494Member
    Maybe it will be as simple as some iteration of the Expeed 4 processor which is capable of handling 24 mb of data at 10 fps. I think 2015 will give us the answer. If is is not out in 2015 it will never be coming out.
    IIRC the only way Canon managed this was to use dual processors, so I suspect Nikon would have to do the same thing to match 10FPS.

    I suspect that if there is no D400/D9300 by the end of this year, you're waiting for fools gold. If Nikon really wants to enter the high end crop sensor market again they need to do it now, while the 7D MKII is still in the pre-order stage.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    Waiting for the specs of what the competition is offering smells a whole lot like "let's wait and see how crappy we can make this camera and get away with it." Nikon needs to focus on making the best possible camera that they can, and they easily could've produced a winner by now if they believed that there was profit to be made.
    So true. But remember that Nikon made the D600, which one could argue is a camera that fit the "let's see how crappy we can make it" philosophy with an unnecessarily crippled AF and terrible shutter. In some ways you could argue that the D7100 is also in there as well with an unnecessarily crippled buffer (Nikon knew everyone wanted a larger buffer from the 7000, but didn't do anything about it).

    Regardless, I vote for putting you in charge of the advisory group to help steer Nikon in the right direction as your philosophy of making the best possible camera they can is spot on.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,494Member
    Nikon letting photographers who actually use the cameras (besides celebrity users) point them in the right direction for camera design? If only.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,494Member
    edited September 2014
    Keep in mind that the D300 came out in 2006, three years before Canon even came out with a half decent competitor (not to mention the D200 before it, which means Canon didn't have a real competitor in that space for much longer than three years). Nikon was stuck with the 12MP sensors Sony was offering at the time, so they didn't have much to work with. I don't think many would argue that the D300s was a bit of let down, and a very minor refresh.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    Nikon letting photographers who actually use the cameras (besides celebrity users) point them in the right direction for camera design? If only.
    LOL, but sadly true
    :(
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    edited September 2014
    Canon has a new version of their 400/4 lense coming out and it is being marketed together with their new top crop camera (7D Mark II). They also have the 400/5.6 lense that is very popular as far as I have seen.
    Maybe Nikon is waiting to anounce the D400 until they have a new high quality but lightweight lense ready for production? It could be something like a 400/5.6, 400/4 or a 500/5.6.
    Maybe Nikon doesn't feel they have the lenses to back up a pro dx camera?

    I am not saying that a D400 would not be excellent together with the current long tele lenses, just trying to figure out what Nikon is thinking.
    Good logic and a new fresh perspective.
    +1 on @PitchBlack's comment...A true pro DX is just unlikely to happen. Been in that camp for well over a year. The 7DMKII has brought this forum alive with hope. From my perspective if there will be a D9300 we will hear a rumor in December or January and the new model would be months after that. But I have a nagging fear that there will not be a successor to the D300/D300S. :( :( :(
    Post edited by Photobug on
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,186Member
    The problem for Nikon is that Expeed was not designed to be able to work as a Dual processor. so only Single processor only in Nikons.
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • proudgeekproudgeek Posts: 1,422Member
    The problem for Nikon is that Expeed was not designed to be able to work as a Dual processor. so only Single processor only in Nikons.
    Sorry to show my ignorance, but why is that an impediment to the release of the D400?
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,724Member
    Because some people say it cannot produce fast enough fps to match the new Cannon camera. Thus, they argue, one of the key requirements desired in a D400, around 10 fps, cannot be achieved with a 24mp sensor and an Expeed4 processor. For example, look at the around 6 fps achieved by the 24mp D600/D610/D750. Others disagree and think a higher through put could be achieved with the current Expeed4. I don't know the answer. It is just one possible constraint using existing hardware.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    It isn't. Expeed 4 supports multiple parallel processing internal to itself, and Fujitsu claims it can do 24mp@10fps, so really who cares how many "processors" it has? "Dual digic" is only because they can't make a single one fast enough so they had to use two, and then put a cool marketing spin on it. As we've discussed about 100 times, the processor ain't the bottleneck. Slapping the mirror and acquiring focus is. Be curious to know if the 7Dmii is 10fps with full auto focus, or only with focus locked.
  • DaveyJDaveyJ Posts: 1,090Member
    I like the take that 2015 (starting in JANUARY) will be Nikon's DX year. If so they will certainly be moving some cameras! Again I admit that the D7200 will almost undoubtedly be the camera I buy. If the D9300 comes out with a whole batch of pro features and a likely high price i just will not be able to afford it. That said a D9300 with pro features will sell very well is my guess and I think Nikon's. I do feel that Expeed 4 processing or an update to that will give the D7200 a big boost. As to Ironheart's point and the frequent reference of Msmoto I do think that mirrorless DSLR DX would be a way to technically solve a whole batch of issues. Is the buying public ready for a mirrorless replacement of the D300s? I think NOT! Nikon will CERTAINLY have a DX camera to be reckoned with in 2015! Will it satisfy all of us here on NR? No! But they WILL get my money and I will get yet another Nikon which I hope I feel as confident in as the D7100 for a modest investment. What a great time to introduce a DX lens that would challenge Canon's tele! and make wildlife speed photographers very happy!
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    +1 DaveyJ - good assessment

    2015 - The year of the DX for Nikon
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,724Member
    So then, 2015 the year of the DX and 2016? the year of mirrorless?
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    Be curious to know if the 7Dmii is 10fps with full auto focus, or only with focus locked.
    Was curious too, so looked it up:
    By reducing the vibrations, the camera can achieve accurate and precise autofocus to provide steady and clear action shots at up to 10.0 frames per second.
    It appears that AF is full throughout the 10fps, which is pretty impressive.
    If Canon could get the 7DM2 down to $1K, I'd bite and buy it. That camera with a 400 5.6 is a great poor man birder's combo. Here's hoping there are no Black Friday specials to rob me of a $1,000 bucks LOL.

    Also agree with PitchBlack that 2015 will be the year of a higher MP DSLR.
    Let's be honest, everyone is whale hunting these days and such a camera fits the bill.

    Would love for 2014 to be the year of the DX and even 2015, but it ain't likely to happen.
    The most exciting sure thing to happen in 2015 for DX will be a new D3000 series camera. There is little left for them to do with that camera other than stick in the old D7000 AF and wifi, which basically renders the 5300 overpriced. It will be a good year for the entry level DSLR crowd for sure.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,724Member
    Surely a 50mp FX sensor body will be out before mirrorless. In fact, I would expect to see it in 2015.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    edited October 2014
    So then, 2015 the year of the DX and 2016? the year of mirrorless?
    That would be my guesstimate as well regrading the timing of mirrorless bodies. I really expect a mid level mirrorless body first and then one at the pro level.

    @PitchBlack said: 2015 - The year of the 40mp+ full frame sensor. Want to give odds on which is more likely?
    IMHO the 40MP FFS will be here before a mirrorless body.
    Post edited by Photobug on
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,545Moderator
    Why the certainty about 50mp @donaldjose? Why would Nikon do such a thing before the D810 is mature?
    Always learning.
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    edited October 2014
    The only chance to get a 40+ MP sensor in 2015 is if it sits in a D4X ... which is quite likely, I guess.
    (Well, or .... if it's in new kind of camera like a pro mirrorless or how about a Sony RX1 kind of thing ....)
    I think it'll happen in '15 one way or another.
    But it's the wrong thread, btw., so how about moving five or so posts to a new thread, and continue from there?
    Post edited by Sports on
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • nukuEX2nukuEX2 Posts: 178Member
    edited October 2014
    Sooner or later Nikon will runout of number for DXXX and DXXXX models with D999 and D9999 get the joke? :)) But seriously I think Nikon must respond to Canon's 7D Mk2 They have to. Canon is forcing Nikon's hand. If Canon took nearly 5 years to update their 7D, Who can say Nikon doesn't have the D400 prototype disguised as D7100or D600/610 getting tested in the real world condition? As I said in the earlier post D7000/7100 and D600/610/750 must've been developed from that prototype and I believe Nikon will release the true D300 replacement. But for now, D400 is here, its just not in one camera.
    Post edited by nukuEX2 on
    D7200, 40mm Micro Nikkor f2.8, Lowepro AW Hatchback 16,
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    edited October 2014
    Competition in an area doesn't make it more likely that they will enter; in fact, it may make them less likely.
    True, at least if Nikon has limited resources. Better to leave a low profit segment than to leave a high profit segment.
    However, what Nikon hopes is that the D300 users will take the "second best" for their needs, which could be D7100 or D750. But now, competition (Canon) introduces a new "second best". Some will jump, for sure, because of COMPETITION. The damage by not building the D400 is worse now, than it used to be, because the alternative is there.
    And more importantly, why would new enthusiast birders and the like ("the D300 segment") choose a "second best Nikon" if COMPETITION (Canon) offers the camera specs of their dreams? The likelyhood of damage by not building the D400 is higher, than it used to be.
    Post edited by Sports on
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • proudgeekproudgeek Posts: 1,422Member
    Except that it's not just a matter of switching bodies. We're all in pretty deep in terms of glass as well. Switching isn't just a matter of putting your D7100 on eBay. To switch platforms for most of us would require a major financial commitment (or reallocation of resources). I believe that Nikon is keenly aware of this. It's probably more cost effective for them to assume that 85% (all made up numbers) of true D400 devotees would choose either the D7100 or the D750. If they lose 15% of that business to Canon maybe that's cheaper than building and introducing a D400.
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