NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

HankB

I suppose it’s fun for some of us consumers but for Nikon, it is existential. Some of us remember when Nikon was the only pro 35mm SLR. Canon was an also-ran competing with Pentax, Yashica, Minolta, and arguably with Nikon’s less expensive Nikkormat. And Sony's imaging…their Trinitron was the best color TV.

Some poor decisions along the way, plus Canon’s technological innovation allowed Canon to leapfrog Nikon. And now Sony has or will inch past Nikon.

Mirrorless is the second shoe to drop in the game-changing transition from film to digital. If Nikon makes more poor decisions, they will disappear from the mainstream pro market. That would be fun for Nikon like digital was fun for Kodak.

Pistnbroke

QUOTE.....Nikon was the only pro 35mm SLR.

Miranda 1955-1978

framer

I'm getting more convinced the next D6 will be mirrorless.

framer

snakebunk

I am not sure there will be a camera called D6 but I think that pretty soon all Nikon cameras will be mirrorless. I don't understand who would buy a new F mount camera once Nikon has introduced the new mount.

spraynpray

How about everybody who has more than a body and a kit lens or two? I certainly will not be jumping for years unless Nikon have put a firmware bug in their cameras that stops them working when the mirrorless is released...lol!

HankB

Age matters here. A young photographer knows that regardless of his current preferences and needs, there is 100% certainty he will eventually be forced to go mirrorless. DSLRs will become museum pieces during his photography lifetime. So he should confine new purchases to mirrorless as soon as mirrorless can perform for him as well as a DSLR.

DSLR technology will slide into a long, overlapping period of high-functioning obsolescence long before it becomes fully obsolete. As long as there is sufficient demand, new DSLR stuff will be produced. So an older photographer — especially a non-pro — has a reasonable expectation to be able to stick with DSLR if he wishes.

Unfortunately for the older Nikon shooter, Canon's larger customer base is likely to retain a critical mass of DSLR demand longer than for Nikon. And 3rd party lens manufactures will likely drop support for Nikon DSLRs before dropping that for Canon.

snakebunk

spraynpray said:

How about everybody who has more than a body and a kit lens or two? I certainly will not be jumping for years unless Nikon have put a firmware bug in their cameras that stops them working when the mirrorless is released...lol!

I am not the one to jump quickly to new stuff, but I think the trend will be very clear. Nikon must go all in to stay competitive. Let's wait a year and talk about it again .

sport

snakebunk said:

I don't understand who would buy a new F mount camera once Nikon has introduced the new mount.

Here are some examples of who will be reluctant to change. All of us that used to be early adopters only to be burned by companies not following through on promises. Those photographers in specialized fields like architecture will be cautious to change mounts. I would expect that there will be a ramping up period of adoption while f mount users slowly shift over. Look at how Canon is transitioning.

It's one thing to present a new mount but Nikon has to have a lens set to go with the camera mount. Adapters are a bridge, but that is just a stop gap measure. Both Sony and Canon have taken a long time to get their lens lineup filled out. Nikon will have to move faster than they have been. And they will have to commit to providing what the market wants for lenses. They can't do the same thing to this mount as they did with DX lenses.

BVS

HankB said:

Age matters here. A young photographer knows that regardless of his current preferences and needs, there is 100% certainty he will eventually be forced to go mirrorless. DSLRs will become museum pieces during his photography lifetime. So he should confine new purchases to mirrorless as soon as mirrorless can perform for him as well as a DSLR.

DSLR technology will slide into a long, overlapping period of high-functioning obsolescence long before it becomes fully obsolete. As long as there is sufficient demand, new DSLR stuff will be produced. So an older photographer — especially a non-pro — has a reasonable expectation to be able to stick with DSLR if he wishes.

Unfortunately for the older Nikon shooter, Canon's larger customer base is likely to retain a critical mass of DSLR demand longer than for Nikon. And 3rd party lens manufactures will likely drop support for Nikon DSLRs before dropping that for Canon.

Agreed. Additionally, I think some DSLR technologies may already be at or near the end of the line. Take AF for example. Do we really think that Nikon is likely to spend a lot of time an money developing another AF module that has 5% more coverage and even more AF points crammed in? Maybe they'll upgrade the 151pt AF to all cross type, or extend low light shooting down to -5EV or something, but I'm doubtful we'll ever see another genuinely new AF system.

On the other hand, maybe some of the mirrorless tech will flow back to the DSLRs and they'll get things like OSPDAF for better live view and movie shooting.

BabaGanoush

spraynpray said:

How about everybody who has more than a body and a kit lens or two? I certainly will not be jumping for years unless Nikon have put a firmware bug in their cameras that stops them working when the mirrorless is released...lol!

Not everyone, because your claim doesn't include me. I'm ready to go mirrorless. As I mentioned in a different thread, I recently bought the AF-P 70-300mm FX lens to replace my old AF-S (G) version. The autofocus on my new AF-P lens is blazingly fast compared with the AF on the half-dozen FX zoom lenses I own. The difference in performance is astonishing, so much so I am bound to find the focus speed on my old lenses too slow to tolerate for much longer. I am planning to upgrade all six of my old lenses. Will I spend a fortune upgrading them to the AF-P versions for the DSLR? Not a chance. I will instead be moving over to mirrorless and gradually adding a collection of the comparable mirrorless mount lenses as they become available.

Pistnbroke

I note the 500mm f 5.6 we saw a photo of was not Z mount but F . Do we suspect two versions of some new lenses ?

spraynpray

I take it that Nikon intend to keep the DSLR line going for a while yet.

framer

The Nikon F6 has been around since 2005ish. I think we will be seeing longer update cycles and disappearing bodies over the next 20 years until your only choice will be a expensive professional body.

framer

snakebunk

I was also surprised to see the 500/5.6 for F mount. My guess is that it will come in two versions.

Hiker

spraynpray said:

I take it that Nikon intend to keep the DSLR line going for a while yet.

Agree! For Nikon to purposely disregard those that are heavily invested in DSLR's and F mount would be suicide for them. They can enter the mirrorless market slowly. But they have to release an equal to what Sony offers imho. It's like the D7500. Many were hoping for an upgrade to the D7200 and the 7500 to many was not an upgrade. Even though the 7500 is (from what I hear) a great camera.

Pistnbroke

See the angry photographers comments on the adaptor re pellicle mirror...not a happy bunny

PB_PM

spraynpray said:

How about everybody who has more than a body and a kit lens or two? I certainly will not be jumping for years unless Nikon have put a firmware bug in their cameras that stops them working when the mirrorless is released...lol!

Totally agree, and I’m not an “older” photographer (30 something). I have no intention of being a first generation paying beta tester, not for a product with a $3000+ USD price tag and few native lenses. It’s going to take more than being a trendy thing for me to dump my current fully functional gear set, which I assembled over many years, for something like that.

I might update after three or four generations, if non-pro priced FX bodies appear with battery life beyond 500 shots CPA.

spraynpray

Me too, but the way they've got you is that the resale value of our DSLR's will plummet in the next few years, so the longer you delay, the worse it will be.

manhattanboy

Eventually everyone will use mirrorless. After using the Sony A9 for several months, my observations are that the optical viewfinder is overrated. Being able to see live feedback of where highlights are clipping via zebras and what your exposure is going to look like is amazing. I used to shoot a lot of manual on my Nikon's using chimp shots to adjust things to my liking or if shooting in aperture or shutter priority I frequently relied on Nikon's great DR in post to salvage poor shots or metering misses. But now I just use shutter or aperture priority on the Sony and use the exposure comp dial in real-time for minor adjustments if I'm blowing a highlight, etc. It's changed the way I shoot (especially at night where things look black in a traditional optical viewfinder versus the mirrorless, where you can seen exposure and take advantage of the IBIS), and definitely cut down on time spent in post fixing images.

I'm excited to see what Nikon will offer but wish they would have kept the F-mount. As it stands Nikon doesn't have the lenses that I use for my A9 and not likely to have them in the near future given their rumored lens roadmap (I basically only use a telephoto and a pancake on the Sony like an odd couple). I'm willing to give up both my 810 and 500 if Nikon's new camera has silent shooting with minimal rolling shutter and works with their F mount lenses (I'm preparing to be disappointed though as I know neither of those things are high on Nikon's priority list).

snakebunk

Well, I think my next camera purchase will be another D810, either a used one or one of the very last new ones at a low price. After that I may buy a used 600/4 if the price gets low. And then at one point in time I will look att the new Nikon system as well as other alternatives.

But, I still don't understand who will buy a new F mount camera once Nikon comes out with mirrorless alternatives with a new mount. Lets say they come out with a D6 mirrorless alternative with at least 20 fps, full af points coverage, silent shooting, long lasting, great evf with all kinds of information on the screen, perfectly working F mount adapter, reliable af that doesn't need adjustments as often and so on. Why then would anyone buy a bulky D6 DSLR with an old mount, noisy shutter that doesn't last as long, less fps and simply not as good of a camera?

I don't claim to know the camera market very well but I wanted to exemplify my reasoning. Feel free to tell me where I am wrong .

BVS

I still find it funny to look down at the related posts at the bottom of the page and see things like "New Nikon full frame mirrorless camera on the horizon" ...from more than two years ago. Hopefully it's for real this time.

sport

BVS said:

I still find it funny to look down at the related posts at the bottom of the page and see things like "New Nikon full frame mirrorless camera on the horizon" ...from more than two years ago. Hopefully it's for real this time.

Considering that Nikon moves at the speed of a glacier that sounds about right!

HankB

My rant about all this whining over a new mount:

Nikon has nursed the F mount for 60 years. That’s 1950’s technology they have managed to accommodate for 6 decades — brilliantly implementing: match needle exposure, auto exposure, auto focus screw drive, lens internal motor focus, electronic aperture control, image stabilization, digital sensor, (must be other stuff I forgot)!!!

What other consumer products manufacturer of absolutely ANYTHING, not just photo equipment has supported customer loyalty for so long or through so many implementations of new technology?

It is quite possible that the technical challenges of sticking with the ancient F mount contributed to Nikon’s missteps that allowed Canon to come from behind and so substantially pass Nikon’s market share.

If Nikon doesn’t redesign and modernize at this mirrorless milestone, Sony and Canon will bury it. Cut Nikon some slack!

CEBlueclouds

HankB said:

My rant about all this whining over a new mount:

Nikon has nursed the F mount for 60 years. That’s 1950’s technology they have managed to accommodate for 6 decades — brilliantly implementing: match needle exposure, auto exposure, auto focus screw drive, lens internal motor focus, electronic aperture control, image stabilization, digital sensor, (must be other stuff I forgot)!!!

What other consumer products manufacturer of absolutely ANYTHING, not just photo equipment has supported customer loyalty for so long or through so many implementations of new technology?

It is quite possible that the technical challenges of sticking with the ancient F mount contributed to Nikon’s missteps that allowed Canon to come from behind and so substantially pass Nikon’s market share.

If Nikon doesn’t redesign and modernize at this mirrorless milestone, Sony and Canon will bury it. Cut Nikon some slack!

+1 well said HankB

PB_PM

manhattanboy said:

Eventually everyone will use mirrorless. After using the Sony A9 for several months, my observations are that the optical viewfinder is overrated.

I’ve owned and used two mirrorless cameras, from two different brands, so I’m not BSing when I say the opposite. I find the EVF overrated, the more shooting information you show the worse it gets, laggy, and all but useless in low light. No I’m not going to buy a A9 just to get one that is half decent, it’s more than I would ever spend on a camera. I have not used a modern Sony outside of a store, but I sure wouldn’t waste my money buying one (bad experiences with Sony, enough said).