NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

moreorless

donaldejose said:

Nikon will not ignore the D3xxx and D5xxx series. They just are not the first mirrorless products launched because they are "cheaper" or "compromised" products by their nature. Nikon needs to launch a "wow" mirrorless body first to compete, and surpass, the Sony A7 bodies. We want to see Sony A7 users switch to Nikon mirrorless because it offers more. Much of the tech in Nikon's first two FX mirrorless bodies to launch will trickle down, as usual, to all the lower prices series. Look for two "great" FX mirrorless bodies this year and two or three DX mirrorless bodies next year to replace the D3xxx, D5xxx and D7xxx series. Other than the D500, the DX series might all go mirrorless next year with no DSLR replacements. I think the D500 will remain in the lineup for some years yet because it is such a good camera. The FX bodies such as the D6, D850, D750 may remain DSLRs for one more cycle but we will have to wait to see just how good the mirrorless design is. The question will be whether the OVF still offers some advantages over the EVF for another generation of bodies or not. We won't know until we see real world comparisons between the two body types. Advantages which may remain for the traditional DSLR body might be no viewfinder lag, longer battery life, better compatibility with legacy lenses (depends upon the adapter Nikon is developing), faster autofocus, etc. Advantages for the mirrorless body may be new and better ergonomics, WYSIWYG in the EVF, lighter body, fewer parts to break since it doesn't have a mirror, faster fps since it doesn't have to move the mirror out of the way each time, etc. It is going to be a great next few years for Nikon gear geeks. There will be lots and lots to talk about.

Its interesting I would say in that I think outright replacement of DSLR's is probably more likely to happen at APSC sensor size than FF in the near future yet also I can see clear reasons for Nikon launching the latter first.

At the simplest level a FF mirrorless is going to generate far more hype than an APSC body would, the latter by itself would I think meet with a bit of a shrug from much of the net given Canon's existing presence in the market. FF is also a much greater statement of intent from Nikon following the abandonment of the One system which I think is needed for credibility.

On a technical level as well it means Nikon only really has direct competition from Sony(given the cost of the Leica) which obviously makes it easier to potentially offer superior performance.

As mentioned as well Nikon's ace in the hole technically might be that they have a mount designed for FF not an APSC mount shifted up in size for convenience. That the A7 line was basically a bit of a rush job by Sony post RX1 success could potentially come back to haunt them IMHO.

Pistnbroke

Sony makes "permanent " £600 drop in price on A9...…...lets hope this drops the price of the Z50
Too small ..fit a grip

mhedges

Capt_Spaulding said:

rmp said:

I hope the size of the mirrorless is as small as the comparison between it and the D700 shows.

Bob, How big are your hands? My first exposure to the world of DSLRs was a D5100. It was uncomfortably small. My D7200 and D610 could be a little larger than they are, but I'm happy with them. My wife's D3400 feels tiny by comparison. I swear it's not much bigger than her Panasonic Lumix point and shoot.

That mockup on the blog is simply too small for me to manage. Add a longish lens to the mix and the body might disappear.

Jim

I wouldn't be too worried just based on the mockup. Hopefully the real camera has the deeper grip like the 5500/5600 and 750. I have big hands and had no trouble at all with the 5500. Actually preferred the grip on it to the 7200.

rmp

I'm comfortable with the D850 for studio work or work that does not require all-day carries. However, for traveling and all-day carries, I want something smaller and lighter. So, the size/weight of the mirrorless is important to me.

mhedges

donaldejose said:

Nikon will not ignore the D3xxx and D5xxx series. They just are not the first mirrorless products launched because they are "cheaper" or "compromised" products by their nature. Nikon needs to launch a "wow" mirrorless body first to compete, and surpass, the Sony A7 bodies. We want to see Sony A7 users switch to Nikon mirrorless because it offers more. Much of the tech in Nikon's first two FX mirrorless bodies to launch will trickle down, as usual, to all the lower prices series. Look for two "great" FX mirrorless bodies this year and two or three DX mirrorless bodies next year to replace the D3xxx, D5xxx and D7xxx series. Other than the D500, the DX series might all go mirrorless next year with no DSLR replacements. I think the D500 will remain in the lineup for some years yet because it is such a good camera. The FX bodies such as the D6, D850, D750 may remain DSLRs for one more cycle but we will have to wait to see just how good the mirrorless design is. The question will be whether the OVF still offers some advantages over the EVF for another generation of bodies or not. We won't know until we see real world comparisons between the two body types. Advantages which may remain for the traditional DSLR body might be no viewfinder lag, longer battery life, better compatibility with legacy lenses (depends upon the adapter Nikon is developing), faster autofocus, etc. Advantages for the mirrorless body may be new and better ergonomics, WYSIWYG in the EVF, lighter body, fewer parts to break since it doesn't have a mirror, faster fps since it doesn't have to move the mirror out of the way each time, etc. It is going to be a great next few years for Nikon gear geeks. There will be lots and lots to talk about.

This sounds about right to me. I wonder if the DX mirrorless cameras will keep the F mount? If they do DX mirrorless lenses I hope they get more support than we got with the DSLR DX lenses.

I personally kind of doubt we will get another DSLR 8xx camera. The 850 is still early in its life cycle - by the time it is due for replacement mirrorless will be in full swing. And the 600 series never really sold all that well, so I'm not sure Nikon would bother with that either. But maybe we will get a DSLR 750 update. That would be nice.

sport

I agree that the d850 will probably be the last DSLR in the 8x0 series. The d600's suffered from bad press and pricing too close to the d750. Hopefully the new cameras are priced competitively and Nikon is willing to support them fully. At least we don't have to worry about the shutter splashing oil on the sensor.

framer

I got 40 years of investing in Nikkor Pro glass. Until the new mount lens offerings are in place I'm sitting on the fence. It's got to be a package deal, body plus lenses.

If they fail to develop a full line of lenses for the new mount as they failed with DX the
system will flounder.

IMHO,
framer

donaldejose

framer: that is why a good Nikon adapter is so important. An adapter which allows almost 100% compatibility with legacy lenses should allow anyone to use all their existing lenses on the new mirrorless bodies. I do hope your concern is solved with a Nikon adapter in the short term. In the long term as lenses are updated the new version will be produced in the new mount.

BVS

sport said:

I agree that the d850 will probably be the last DSLR in the 8x0 series. The d600's suffered from bad press and pricing too close to the d750. Hopefully the new cameras are priced competitively and Nikon is willing to support them fully. At least we don't have to worry about the shutter splashing oil on the sensor.

The cameras will still come with mechanical shutters though, at least until global shutters come out. They just lose the mirror.

sport

Sorry, I still had in my mind the patent that Nikon filed in January for a global shutter on a mirrorless camera. I expect that they will go in that direction in the next couple of years.

moreorless

sport said:

I agree that the d850 will probably be the last DSLR in the 8x0 series. The d600's suffered from bad press and pricing too close to the d750. Hopefully the new cameras are priced competitively and Nikon is willing to support them fully. At least we don't have to worry about the shutter splashing oil on the sensor.

Again I disagree with this, I think what were likely to find is that its actually the higher end of the DSLR market that has demand for the longest period due to investment and preference. You look at Sony's A-mount for example and its not seen an entry level camera released in 5 years but it has seen a FF camera released less than 2 years ago.

I suspect if Nikon drops FF DSLR's it will probably be a slow process, maybe the updates will become more focused on introducing new sensor tech and invest less in new AF units and body designs with fewer new lens releases.

NSXTypeR

Haven't read much of the posts here, but here's an article from Thom Hogan about the DSLR sticking around for a while longer.

https://dslrbodies.com/newsviews/is-the-dslr-dead.html

Pistnbroke

I suspect 4 cameras with the same body ..2 x FF at 45/24 and two DX with less features, no top screen , one sd slot,no tilt screen etc to replace the 3xxx 5xxx. At least now we have a better picture of the camera. Pleased to see that pro control wheel gone

Ton14

There is an artical in Dutch about the sensor. Sorry, I did not read this forum and maybe it is mentioned, if so skip this message, if there is no discussion about a possible new CMYW sensor, Google can translate (more or less) this next article for you.

http://www.digifotopro.nl/krijgt-de-spiegelloze-nikon-een-revolutionaire-nieuwe-sensor

spraynpray

I hope it is all true, sounds fabulous.

mhedges

Pistnbroke said:

I suspect 4 cameras with the same body ..2 x FF at 45/24 and two DX with less features, no top screen , one sd slot,no tilt screen etc to replace the 3xxx 5xxx. At least now we have a better picture of the camera. Pleased to see that pro control wheel gone

I'd think the D5xxx replacement would still have the flipping screen. That's kind of the trademark feature of that series. Otherwise there isn't enough to differentiate it from the 3xxx.

retread

Just a few thoughts, I like the controls on my D500 and D7200 with grips don't want to change from that layout. My D5100 seems small in comparison to them, I like the bigger camera so don't want a smaller or lighter one. It may be time for a new mount and as long as an adapter will allow using the f mount lenses that is good. I wonder what it has for a sensor. If it has more advancements that is of more interest to me.

Symphotic

Nice view of the body on the latest video.
I don't think there is a down side for me. I am not happy with the weight of the D810 as a second body when I travel for work an pleasure. So the new mirrorless with an adapter will be a big plus for me. I can see having a wide angle lens on my D850 for most shooting and the kit lens or adapted lenses on the Mirrorless.
It would be great to get it in my hands by December.
in other thoughts, the adapter I have for my Nikon 1 works great. I expect there will be no problem with the adapter for the current lenses, although I can see how they would not work for all lenses, just like the Nikon 1 adapter doesn't work for all lenses.
We've got a handful of V1s here in the lab: I'm sorry the are out of production.

Here's the video link:

https://youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=Ax3ZpDs4EgI

manhattanboy

As someone who shoots with both Nikon and Sony (and has shot Canon too), I will chime in with my latest thoughts.

If you are not doing video or silent shooting, then I don't think you should be excited by mirrorless. Real time exposure is awesome, but in of itself would not be a reason for a D8XX shooter to switch, as most everyone using that level of a camera knows how to set exposure, and switching would mean having to fumble with an adapter.

Canon and Nikon have not taken video or silent shooting seriously on their cameras recently, so largely I am inclined to believe that effort 1.0 from these two is going to be like a first generation Apple product... full of promise, but something you need to wait for the second iteration to see it reach its full potential. As such, Sony I believe will largely ignore Nikon's new full frame mirrorless as they will have products spread across all price ranges and categories already to compete with it. What they will do instead, I think, is target APS-C users and trumpet that Nikon has abandoned the crop sensor masses. It would be interesting to see a stacked crop sensor camera from Sony that aims at the D500 and 7Dm2. Doing this simultaneously while releasing a budget crop mirrorless camera too will target the crop sensors users that will feel left out by these FF mirrorless announcements from Canikon.

dissent

If extra lighter/compact, I can see picking up one of these bodies to complement my current kit, since I may not have to buy a lot of new glass; especially if the image quality meets or exceeds current DSLR bodies.

framer

I hope I using this term correct but being able to design a wide angle lens that's not retrofocus should give us better/lighter wide angle lenses with less distortion.

framer

mhedges

manhattanboy said:

As such, Sony I believe will largely ignore Nikon's new full frame mirrorless as they will have products spread across all price ranges and categories already to compete with it. What they will do instead, I think, is target APS-C users and trumpet that Nikon has abandoned the crop sensor masses. It would be interesting to see a stacked crop sensor camera from Sony that aims at the D500 and 7Dm2. Doing this simultaneously while releasing a budget crop mirrorless camera too will target the crop sensors users that will feel left out by these FF mirrorless announcements from Canikon.

That would make a lot of sense to me. FF gets all the press on the boards, but crop sensor is where the numbers are. I understand the reasons for coming out with a FF body first, but I think they need to quickly follow up with a DX style body.

framer said:

I hope I using this term correct but being able to design a wide angle lens that's not retrofocus should give us better/lighter wide angle lenses with less distortion.

framer

I would think. That's why Sony can come out with a non distorting FF ultrawide zoom that starts at 12mm, which I don't believe any DSLR lensmaker has been able to do.

Pistnbroke

I measured up my Oly M5 and its 3 in tall (ex prism) 4.5 in wide and a 12mm flange distance . so about the same size as the derived measurement on the new Nikonless...Just stick a DX sensor in it and you are good to go.

rmp

I hope the 24 mb censor (low light version) is announced on day one (Aug 27). I think it will be the 48 mb version, but I still hope.

BabaGanoush

i

Pistnbroke said:

I measured up my Oly M5 and its 3 in tall (ex prism) 4.5 in wide and a 12mm flange distance . so about the same size as the derived measurement on the new Nikonless...Just stick a DX sensor in it and you are good to go.

You are dreaming if you think the width of the FF mirrorless camera Nikon's about to announce is that narrow. I'm betting it is as least as wide as the D7200 if not wider, that is, a width of at least 135mm if not more, perhaps even as large as the D850 in that dimension. The APS-C model(s) Nikon will release later on might be as small as 115mm in width, but not this first release. It will be biggish if not really big. And that's what today's NR post suggests. At possibly 149mm wide, it would be 3mm wider than the D850.