D300s Successor-D400, what and when

Ade

OK, I will bite. For each of your points, which manufacturer is doing it with which of their mounts?

- Full electronic mount w/ high speed data bus between camera body and lens
- Large mount-diameter and short flange-focal distance to enable next gen lenses

Most modern mirrorless mounts (Nikon 1, Sony E-Mount, micro-4/3, etc.) implement both of the above.

For non-mirrorless (SLRs), one of the features of the Four Thirds mount is a throat diameter that's twice as large as the image circle. This allows for telecentric optical design where more of the light can hit the sensor straight-on instead of at an angle. This in turn allows for better sensor/microlens-array design.

- Fully electronic, step-less (continuously variable) aperture

Nikon 1, micro-4/3, maybe NEX as well.

Canon EF lenses and Nikon PC-E lenses have electro-magnetic apertures but are not quite stepless in their implementation. (I believe EF lenses can adjust in 1/8-stop increments depending on the camera's firmware.)

- Electronic support for power zoom

Nikon 1, micro-4/3, NEX, etc.

- Electronic support for tilt & shift

Canon EF already has this to support TS-E lenses.

- Breech-lock instead of bayonet design

Most notably the PL-mount used in the film industry. Also the old Canon FD was breech-lock.

I think @msmoto is correct that breech-lock might not be popular with consumers.

- Tight depth-of-focus tolerance

PL-mount. When there's millions of dollars riding on a film production, they can't afford to have lenses that randomly back- or front-focuses, so the flange-focus distance tolerance ("depth of focus") is very carefully checked and maintained.

- High precision, high accuracy AF (enabled by high speed bus)

Canon STM lenses are actually a step in the right direction, but trades off speed for accuracy & precision.

- Advanced Vibration Reduction (enabled by high speed bus)

Probably most mirrorless cameras without IBIS.

- Advanced lens calibration / correction data (enabled by high speed bus)

I'm not aware of any implementation currently (though one might exist). Right now, lens distortion data is distributed via firmware (plus Canon cameras can register lens data by USB). However the distortion data is generic for each lens model. In the future, custom calibration data can be created for each lens (saved on the lens itself), and the lens may automatically communicate this information to the camera body. Is there a patent on this??

- Lens firmware updates direct from (internet-connected) camera (no dock required)

Most modern electronic mounts can do this… e.g, see the Joint Update Service for Four Thirds and m4/3 cameras.

manhattanboy

Keeping the guessing going, this was in my Photography Bay Newsletter this morning:

http://www.photographybay.com/2013/12/26/nikon-d4x-andor-d400-coming-in-january-2014/?awt_l=K.yJY&awt_m=IwE6JoOSTf62xu

That article basically said hell will freeze over before a D400 will be produced. Likely we will see a D4S update hence all of the "speed" references in the Nikon propaganda.

I will say that I am now shooting exclusively in crop mode in the 7100, and I find the buffer limits with an extreme pro card are not bad at all. At this point I would not upgrade for speed alone anymore.

rbrylawski

I finally took some shots in crop mode on my D7100. I was very pleased with the results........

spraynpray

@rbrylawski: What is the pixel count of 1.3 crop images?

rbrylawski

A tad over 15MP. Plenty usable and gives amazing reach too! The only thing I have to remember when shooting in crop mode is to remember the frame fills normally, but there is a box that give you the view of the shot you're taking. You have to keep in mind what's in the box, not what's in the entire viewfinder.

WestEndBoy

I shoot in 5:4 on my D800 a lot and there is a way to darken the unused area in the viewfinder. Perhaps your D7100 can do that too?

rbrylawski

I'll have to dig in the manual, but I don't think there's a way to darken that portion on the D7100.

WestEndBoy

It is very obscure and I missed it in the manual until I picked it up from another source and new what I was looking for.

rbrylawski

Thanks, I'll look for it.

rbrylawski

I just did some research and it appears the option to darken the unused area is only available on D600/D610/D800.

WestEndBoy

Too bad, I could not live without it. Well, I exaggerate, but it is extremely useful.

manhattanboy

The crop box is annoying at times, but eventually you get used to it... its a retraining of shooting what is in the viewfinder to shooting what is in the box. It helps to just shoot everything in crop so your brain never goes back to the old way. As I said before, the increase in speed and buffer is worth it for me, with decent results using the extreme pro cards.

Shooting in full RAW I get about 3.2 shots a second sustainable for as long as you hold the shutter down. For comparison's sake, I did the same with the d7000 and got 1.7 shots a second sustainable for as long as you hold the shutter down. So the buffer delay with the D7100 in crop mode, while still noticeable, is roughly half of what you get with the D7000, which translates into a much better experience trying to continuously take photos. Granted these aren't pro rates of shooting, but they are still pretty darn good allowing you to reel off 200 photos in a minute using the D7100 in crop mode.

rbrylawski

Too bad, I could not live without it. Well, I exaggerate, but it is extremely useful.

It certainly would be useful, but I've mentally adjusted, so it's not too bad.

WestEndBoy

I just did some research and it appears the option to darken the unused area is only available on D600/D610/D800.

Hi Rbrylawski, I am thinking of your post regarding darkening the unused portion of the viewscreen on your D7100. Despite your research, this is how I do it on my D800. You might try it on your D7100 as you never know.

1.
Select "Custom Setting Menu"
2.
Select "Autofocus".
3.
Select "AF point illumination".
4.
Select "Off".

As I shoot in 5:4 mode most of the time (I find that aspect ratio very esthetically pleasing), this is important to me. It is beyond me why Nikon puts such a feature like this in this section. What does "Darken Unused Portion" have to do with "AF point illumination". In my view this deserves its own menu item.

Oh well........let me know if it works.

rbrylawski

I just did some research and it appears the option to darken the unused area is only available on D600/D610/D800.

Hi Rbrylawski, I am thinking of your post regarding darkening the unused portion of the viewscreen on your D7100. Despite your research, this is how I do it on my D800. You might try it on your D7100 as you never know.

1.
Select "Custom Setting Menu"
2.
Select "Autofocus".
3.
Select "AF point illumination".
4.
Select "Off".

As I shoot in 5:4 mode most of the time (I find that aspect ratio very esthetically pleasing), this is important to me. It is beyond me why Nikon puts such a feature like this in this section. What does "Darken Unused Portion" have to do with "AF point illumination". In my view this deserves its own menu item.

Oh well........let me know if it works.

jschickele, thanks for taking the time to think of me and this. I just did what you suggested, but on the D7100 it doesn't work. It's OK though as I have mentally adjusted to remember I'll only get what's in the smaller box in the viewfinder if in 1.3 mode.

Thanks again. Much appreciated.

heartyfisher

Sigh .. i have come full circle.. back to waiting for the mythical D400.. it really is the best camera for my needs :-) oh well ..

WestEndBoy

Sigh .. i have come full circle.. back to waiting for the mythical D400.. it really is the best camera for my needs :-) oh well ..

I can hear the pain of all the people longing for the D400. However, my prediction is that the D7100, or maybe a D7200 or D7300, is the closest that you will ever get.

heartyfisher

I have had a "wonder around" and looked for a D400 .. and the options that I have found are
1) My D7000 .. works well enough and is a great little kit but its really just a temporary camera while waiting for teh D400
2) D7100 -- nice kit but it would be just another temporary camera and i already have the D7000 in that role.
3) D800 .. the real successors to the D300S ?
4) D800E .. this really is the best DX camera .. it has better "real" resolution than the D7000 and has all the functionality of the expected successor of the D300.

Leaving the Nikon brand we have the Fujifilm X-Pro1 and the X-E1/X-E2.. Many have made the move. I seriously considered this but was held back by only one thing.. the CLS. As I love it for my macro shooting. but even this last thread is wearing thin.

I have not considered the M43 though there are some really nice kit there.

Full frame is not for me so the Sony a7r although nice is not for me .. so I am back waiting for the D400 or an alternative from Fuji X I will be making the move either way this year.. as I want a better kit than my D7000. and my patience is gone.. the first kit with a similar spec to an expected D400 will have me spending.. ( except canon ! LOL! i am really a bigot!) I am thinking it may be a Fuji or a pentax if Nikon does not bring it.

sevencrossing

heartyfisher..... kit but its really just a temporary camera while waiting for teh D400
2) D7100 ...... but it would be just another temporary camera ...

Hate to say this but the D400 would also be another temporary camera until the D500 comes out


D800E or D800 ???

it very difficult to find anyone who has a D800 or D800 E and considers it a "temporary camera"
unless you really do need more than 4 fps it really does tick a lot of boxes

spraynpray

@heartyfisher:

I think you would be surprised by the improvements that the D7100 has over the D7000 if you took a closer look at it. I was a staunch advocate of waiting for the D400 (I have the D7000) but bought the D7100 and am blown away by most of it's features and performance. I am surprised by what you say; a D400 that may have been released at roughly the same time as the D7100 would not have had much over the D7100 other than a bigger buffer and more fps. The fact that it was not released then could mean that it may be a generation further on and so may be better than the D7100, but then so will the D410 be better than the D400.

What is it you need that isn't addressed by the D7100? I ask because I don't see PAD images posted by you that need the advantages of the D400 type of camera. my decision to buy the D7100 was taken after doing a side-by-side low light IQ comparison and seeing the D7100 thrash the D7000 soundly.

Just wonderin' is all...

WestEndBoy

I handled a D300S in the store the other day. It does seem to have a unique shape and it is certainly well built. What is the box the is unticked in the Nikon line that the D400 or D310 would tick?

Is it simply a professional grade DX camera? Can't any FX camera can play that role?

Is there something about the form/ergonomics?

What exactly is it that people are longing for? Maybe I have to read all 72 pages of this thread to find out, but I am looking for something a little more succinct.

Kyyo24

It's the professionals grade build/ergonomics/button layout. It's one camera that nikon got right! Had the d800 been able to shoot 8fps in dx mode, I'd say it could be a replacement but no,Not any fx camera can replace it. It's for wildlife/sports shooters who want that extra "reach" but still want/need the professional build of an fx body or simply can't afford a $5k price tag of a D4

You don't have to read all 72 pages to understand what we want but maybe you should. It's very simple for what I want, just an updated sensor with more mp, say 16-18, and way better iso. Hell entry level d3200 and d5200 have both better mp and iso. They can keep everything else completely the same. They almost got it right with the d7100 but there's a bunch of little things that its missing, which makes me believe they purposely did it to leave room for the d400

ChasCS

@Kyyo24,
Welcome to the NR forum.
Yes a few more frames a second would obviously be a marvelous thing, but think about the file sizes...
There's a whole lot of processing going on there in milliseconds.
Perhaps in the future, we will have the option to "dial in" the requirements we desire for a particular shoot or event.

Here's looking into to the distant future, which I doubt I will be around to witness and perhaps appreciate.

heartyfisher

the difference between the D600/D610 and the D800/D800E/D4 is the difference between the D7000/D7100 and the D300 replacement..

of course i can take the same image with a D3200 or a D5200 or a D7000 or D7100 just as i could take the same image from the EM, FE or F4 .. IQ is not the issue here.

I can tell you moving from my S5Pro(D200 clone) to the D7000 was a painful down grade in handling speed, ease of use and shooting process. If you don't understand that then I cant explain it :-) some one more eloquent will have to do it for me :-)

proudgeek

It's the professionals grade build/ergonomics/button layout.

I would say that this is a big one for me. Having just gone on a trip with two of the same camera, I can say it was a real pleasure to be using bodies with identical user interfaces. That said, it would have been nice to have two "different" tools in my tool box.

Had the d800 been able to shoot 8fps in dx mode, I'd say it could be a replacement

I shot with the D800 in DX mode a few times, and it was fine, but IMO the images and clarity were nothing like what I was getting shooting in full frame mode.

It's for wildlife/sports shooters who want that extra "reach" but still want/need the professional build of an fx body or simply can't afford a $5k price tag of a D4. It's very simple for what I want, just an updated sensor with more mp, say 16-18, and way better iso.

Agreed