NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

manhattanboy

@PB_PM, you are missing out on some of the best viewfinders by basing your conclusions on past products. I’ve rented and shot with a bunch of different mirrorless cameras but by far the a9 is the best viewfinder I've ever used and now that I've owned the camera long enough, I've adjusted my shooting style to take advantage of it.

I'm not the only one to feel that way. In Thom Hogan's own words "If there’s a game changer in the A9, the zero blackout viewfinder would be it."

Cameras are tools for the artist. Now while everyone here would prefer the Nikon brand of tools, myself included, at the moment Nikon doesn't make the tools I desire; given that this entire thread is discussing Nikon's mirrorless failures, I am sure others are similarly disappointed by the lack of a competitive Nikon product.

PB_PM

Not going to spend $6k to get an A9, or any Sony camera for that matter, after sale support is terrible. I’ve used Panasonic, Nikon and Fuji stuff, at least they have functional UIs’ and some after sale support (none are great, but Sony is terrible).

Searcy

The view finder and the auto focus are what has sold me on the Sony A7r3. I decided to wait till Nikon shows us what's up it's sleeve first though.

BabaGanoush

PB_PM said:

Not going to spend $6k to get an A9, or any Sony camera for that matter, after sale support is terrible. I’ve used Panasonic, Nikon and Fuji stuff, at least they have functional UIs’ and some after sale support (none are great, but Sony is terrible).

Do you think Nikon's after sale support is excellent? That's not the impression I get from reading Thom Hogan's articles about Nikon support, including the latest horror story. A constant refrain on his blog is that support is among the first things to get cut back whenever Nikon starts to trim expenses. He's always been very honest and sometimes very critical of Nikon support.

spraynpray

I can only say that my experience of Nikon support has been excellent, and that of Sony to be absolutely hideous.

manhattanboy

@PB_PM I wouldn't spend $6k either; I bought mine new for $3.5k, which I felt was fair for what I was getting. I would have preferred to buy something with more resolution but there is no a9r, and the a7r3 still suffers from rolling shutter. And of course Nikon and Canon don't give two cents about making a compent silent shooting camera at the current moment.

As I have stated above, I am hanging onto my Nikon equipment and still love them, but find myself slowly falling for the Sony A9 like a deprived spouse that has seccumbed to seductive pressures

PB_PM

BabaGanoush said:

Do you think Nikon's after sale support is excellent?

Nope don’t think Nikon is great, but it is better than Sony in my experience.

manhattanboy said:

@PB_PM I wouldn't spend $6k either; I bought mine new for $3.5k, which I felt was fair for what I was getting.

Here the A9 is $5999, so it’s way to expensive, I could get a D5 for less and not have to buy new glass (not that I would).

Hiker

PB_PM said:

Not going to spend $6k to get an A9, or any Sony camera for that matter, after sale support is terrible. I’ve used Panasonic, Nikon and Fuji stuff, at least they have functional UIs’ and some after sale support (none are great, but Sony is terrible).

Everything you say is the exact opposite of what I see and read on the internet. Sony has excellent support from what I hear. And at least they listen to their customers regarding changes. Nikon lately, for the past several years actually...enter the sound of crickets...

BVS

Hiker said:

Everything you say is the exact opposite of what I see and read on the internet. Sony has excellent support from what I hear. And at least they listen to their customers regarding changes. Nikon lately, for the past several years actually...enter the sound of crickets...

What has Nikon not given us in the DSLR realm that people have been asking for, other than better memory banks in the pro bodies, video AF, arca swiss tripod feet, and maybe quieter shutters?

We got the D500, we got the best AF system, they've starting making primes with sharpness comparable to Sigma Art, the D850 was nearly everything we could have hoped for, they've got focus peaking and 4K video now (although not together yet), they made lighter and sharper super teles and the sharpest 70-200, the 24-70 has VR, more PF lenses are coming, and the P1000 seems to include all the things people wanted in the P900, just to name a few off the top of my head.

spraynpray

Yeah! But apart from that...

BabaGanoush

"What has Nikon not given us in the DSLR realm that people have been asking for... we got the best AF system"

To quote Will Smith from the movie MIB, in Nikon we have "the best of the best of the best." That was, of course, a sarcastic remark he made.

BVS

BabaGanoush said:

"What has Nikon not given us in the DSLR realm that people have been asking for... we got the best AF system"

To quote Will Smith from the movie MIB, in Nikon we have "the best of the best of the best." That was, of course, a sarcastic remark he made.

I believe that was actually one of the other military recruits, not Will Smith's character.

BabaGanoush

BVS said:

BabaGanoush said:

"What has Nikon not given us in the DSLR realm that people have been asking for... we got the best AF system"

To quote Will Smith from the movie MIB, in Nikon we have "the best of the best of the best." That was, of course, a sarcastic remark he made.

I believe that was actually one of the other military recruits, not Will Smith's character.

No, I am correct. It was Will Smith (J), who said it to K. He was mocking Zed (i.e. Z), who made the remark initially.

BVS

BabaGanoush said:

BVS said:

BabaGanoush said:

"What has Nikon not given us in the DSLR realm that people have been asking for... we got the best AF system"

To quote Will Smith from the movie MIB, in Nikon we have "the best of the best of the best." That was, of course, a sarcastic remark he made.

I believe that was actually one of the other military recruits, not Will Smith's character.

No, I am correct. It was Will Smith (J), who said it to K. He was mocking Zed (i.e. Z), who made the remark initially.

It's true, Will Smith did repeat it after the recruit said it after Zed said it:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OXRi28W-ENY

sport

No, he said it to Zed making fun of the recruits in the testing room that didn't know what they were being tested for.

sport

I agree somewhat with BVS, but here are some things that we have not seen from Nikon:

- more af points outside of the small area in the center on full frame cameras
- silent shutter
- actual wireless functionality
- built in gps
- a marketing team with a pulse

Nikon cameras compete at or near the top of each class they are in. I expect the same thing from future products. It will be fun to see what they bring next as the camera market needs more competition.

BabaGanoush

Whatever the official name of the mount, J, K, or Z, Nikon's new mirrorless camera will come in one color only, black, and will be the last camera any of us need because it will be the best of the best of the best. Now look here into this thingy I'm gonna flash at you.....

Hiker

We got the D500, we got the best AF system, they've starting making primes with sharpness comparable to Sigma Art, the D850 was nearly everything we could have hoped for, they've got focus peaking and 4K video now (although not together yet), they made lighter and sharper super teles and the sharpest 70-200, the 24-70 has VR, more PF lenses are coming, and the P1000 seems to include all the things people wanted in the P900, just to name a few off the top of my head.



So....that's 2 bodies...3 actually if you count the D7500, which people here and other places knocked. 2 crop bodies and 1 full frame...not counting the P1000. That's monumental in your opinion??!! And the only reason they woke up and started producing more lenses is because of Sigma and Tamron knocking on their (profit) door. Oh, the Sony 70-200 f2.8 is extremely sharp. And the big deal about the 24-70 having VR is??? I'm not knocking the 850 or the 500 btw. Nikons sleeping. And they better get their "collective heads of knuckle" out of their asses. Now THAT is a movie quote...

PB_PM

sport said:

- a marketing team with a pulse

And this matters why? You’d rather pay more for your cameras just so Nikon makes more lame/annoying ads like Sony and Canon. No thanks.

sport

It absolutely matters. Sony is driving the entire story of mirrorless cameras right now. They have their technology evangelists out there driving the story of how the future of cameras should be. It doesn't matter if you have the best product on the market, the marketing team wins (especially in the US).

Nikon marketing and sales failed miserably with two things over the last two years. First, the 100 year anniversary was a complete bust. They didn't really do anything other than some overpriced re-branded products and a website. In fact, they actually did damage by not saying anything after the downsizing. Sony fans owned them on that and it will take a huge effort just to overcome the "Nikon is closing" rumors.

Second, they screwed up the sales forecast for the US on the D850. How is it that you are discounting the product in some markets and can't get the product in major retailers in the US? I'm not worried that Nikon will bring a worthy product to market. I'm worried that they will screw up everything after the product is released.

PB_PM

sport said:

It absolutely matters. Sony is driving the entire story of mirrorless cameras right now. They have their technology evangelists out there driving the story of how the future of cameras should be. It doesn't matter if you have the best product on the market, the marketing team wins (especially in the US).

Nikon marketing and sales failed miserably with two things over the last two years. First, the 100 year anniversary was a complete bust. They didn't really do anything other than some overpriced re-branded products and a website. In fact, they actually did damage by not saying anything after the downsizing. Sony fans owned them on that and it will take a huge effort just to overcome the "Nikon is closing" rumors.

Second, they screwed up the sales forecast for the US on the D850. How is it that you are discounting the product in some markets and can't get the product in major retailers in the US? I'm not worried that Nikon will bring a worthy product to market. I'm worried that they will screw up everything after the product is released.

Nikon’s entire budget is smaller than Sony’s advertising budget (and has brand recognition with non-photography enthusiasts), so good luck changing that momentum.

Nikon 100th, what did you expect? Some special digital F1? Oh wait, they did that... the Df, which they marketed heavily, and it was still a flop. Go figure.

D850, I doubt they screwed up sales forecasts, the same thing happens every time they realease a new top model like that. Same thing happened when the D200, D300, D700, D800 and to a lesser extent when the D810 came out. Production cannot meet demand, nothing new to see here. The only thing that changed is people are more impatient than ever.

BabaGanoush

"Production cannot meet demand, nothing new to see here."

Ahh, so what you are saying is that Nikon never learns a lesson and keeps repeating the same mistake. Thank you for helping to reassure everyone that Nikon will screw up the introduction of its new suite of mirrorless cameras. It makes us feel such relief. /sarc

PB_PM

Nikon can not afford to buy production plants and train staff just for short runs after models are released, they would go under for sure if they did that. Sometimes I wonder if any of you have a clue about the reality of running a business.

Sony and Canon can because they have products other than photo gear to fill those spots, they are in an entirely different league in terms of company size. That’s reality, and not a suprise to any long term Nikon user.

BabaGanoush

"Nikon can not afford to buy production plants and train staff..."

Or maybe they don't have a clue about how to gauge market demand for their new products because their marketing department sucks and doesn't give them the information needed to decide how large a production run they should do. Maybe if Nikon had better contact with its customer base, they might be able to judge more properly how well received one of their new product would be.

Or maybe they're worried about QC and do small initial runs to use the first-adapters as guinea pigs to work out the bugs. Nah, they wouldn't do that.

Pistnbroke

Quote ….use the first-adapters as guinea pigs to work out the bugs. Nah, they wouldn't do that.


No That's Clive Sinclair ( british Joke)