NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

PB_PM

I suspect how many shots you get would be less than that if you spend a lot of time composing and tweaking settings. The biggest draw on battery life on mirrorless cameras tends to be the EVF, you typically get longer life using the lower resolution rear LCD.

Capt_Spaulding

While I have no plans, near or long term to go mirrorless, I find the Z mount bodies more attractive than I thought I would. The battery life issue is not a deal breaker, they are not heavy or expensive enough that I can't carry a couple of spares. I seldom use the popup flash on my dslrs so that's not a big deal. I don't do video so the limited recording time (about which I'm more than a little skeptical) isn't a problem. I have yet to play with an EVF that compares to an optical finder, but there's a first time for most things.

The things I find bothersome are the number and format of the memory card slots. I am not an XQD convert and I think I really want 2 slots. But the biggest selling point for me is, it's NOT a Sony.

Hiker

Pistnbroke said:

One card slot and the price has killed it for me ...Silent mode ..no news yet

12 fps indicates no silent mode..thats a shutter without a mirror.

Fro Knows has a 20 min. video on the new cameras.

PB_PM said:

mhedges said:

Yeah those battery life reports are concerning, but I would like to see confirmation, since I haven't seen battery life numbers anywhere else. I'm hoping the actual numbers are similar to the A7III.

It’s not a surprise, all mirrorless cameras have poor battery life compaired to modern DSLRs, don’t know what people were expecting. The grip with extra batteries will surely help. If Nikon had been smart they would have allowed charging over USB so you could use external battery packs, but that might hurt sales numbers for EN-EL15s, so that was a pipe dream.

Some are getting upwards of 3000 + shots on the A7iii and still have 20% battery left.

So now, all of a sudden, it's ok for a mirrorless camera to have poor battery life, and it's ok now to add a battery grip to extend battery life. The same exact thing DSLR users have for years dismissed mirrorless cameras for just that reason. Really strange..

HankB

Actually, it would be more reasonable to compare battery life between mirrorless WITH a battery grip vs DSLR WITHOUT a grip — configured that way, they are both about the same size and weight.

tc88

Hiker said:

Some are getting upwards of 3000 + shots on the A7iii and still have 20% battery left.

So now, all of a sudden, it's ok for a mirrorless camera to have poor battery life, and it's ok now to add a battery grip to extend battery life.

First, not everyone is ok for a mirrorless to have poor battery life, maybe most people are not ok if they are used to battery life on a DSLR.

Second, for mirrorless, it's not the # of shots that consumes the bulk of battery, it's the duration that you keep it on, point at things and the EVF and AF keeps on working that consume the battery. Sure, if you keep your finger on the A7 shutter continuously in an electrical shutter mode, I don't doubt you may be able to fire off 3k+ shots before it dies. That probably take you 20 minutes. But can your A7 last a whole day shooting if you use it constantly?

WestEndFoto

HankB said:

According to Ken Rockwell (I presume an accurate source of esoteric minutia) the AF-I lenses came out in 1992 and the AF-S in 1998. So the screw drive lenses began to be replaced over 20 years ago.

I have never used a screw drive but kind of thought it was quite primitive and that anyone buying one was placing auto-focus well down below price in priorities for that particular purchase. To the extent that view is correct, Z mount adapters not supporting the screw mount doesn't seem like a major loss. And not supporting screw mount makes sense for so many reasons (unlike the stupidity of having only one memory card slot)

The best macro lens that money can buy, the 200 f/4.0, is a screw drive. So some of them are still relevant. Until the 105 1.4E came out, the 135 DC 2.0 was my go to lens.

WestEndFoto

mhedges said:

PB_PM said:

WestEndFoto said:

They do allow charging over USB. Read Nikon's A7 page. However, you cannot use the camera while doing that. However, Nikon has another solution that may solve some of the problems that you are worrying about:

http://en.nikon.ca/nikon-products/product/power-packs/ep-5b-power-supply-connector.html

Not being able to charge with the camera is on makes charging over USB the way I proposed not possible. As for the adapter, those have always been around, and are equally useless if you are outdoors away from plugs, without other bulky equipment that is.

Well it would still be technically possible but you would just have to take a break while charging. I see what you are saying.

Can the Sonys be used while charging? I'm not sure how that would work given that USB is 5 volts and these cameras run at about 7 volts.

I have to wonder if this is a real problem. I cannot imagine something as simple as carrying a pocketful of batteries.

PB_PM

Why spend $250-300 on 3-4 EN-EL15bs when you get can a USB battery pack with the same amount of mAh as that for $50? For stills it's no big deal, but lets say that you are shooting 4k video, clean over HDMI, using an USB pack that sits in your pocket would be much simpler, rather than wasting time switching batteries every 10 minutes. The reason is simple, Nikon wants to sell battery packs or the AC adapter (high profit margin items), rather than making life easier for users.

tc88

Regarding specialized on camera charging mechanism if there is one, that wouldn't surprise me, this is Nikon. On the other hand, they may never have thought about external charging, they are not really known as a consumer electronics company.

I have a feeling that the grip may very well use the en-el18 battery, just like D850, which could mean a bundle of money to spend for a user, and a bundle of profit for Nikon.

snakebunk

If Nikon is reading: make an adapter with built in tc that can be switched on or off, especially since you have no long primes in the z mount roadmap, this could be a unique selling point for long lens shooters.

Pistnbroke

Any reports on silent mode ..Thom Hogan etc do not mention it ?
Perhaps we should ask about recovery software for the XQD like you get with Sandisc

Searcy

NSXTypeR said:

I think even if you discount the limit on video length, that battery is seriously concerning even if you shoot only stills. I remember I can get away with 1 battery when I go on vacation if I make sure to top off my battery every couple of days or so. If it's 330 shots or so, I can chew through that in a day or sooner if I'm being particularly trigger happy.

When I shoot runway I take a lot of shots. It's not unusual for me to come home with 1500 raw files from one show. My first dslr was a d3200. I used to keep 4 batteries in my pocket and swap all night. Now my main body is a d7200 with a battery grip and that has spoiled me. I can literally shoot for a month without charging.

All that said I'm sure Nikon will come out with a good battery grip that will improve things. Sony had this same issue until they came out with their latest battery.

I'm looking forward to seeing the hands on reviews this week from Tony Northrup and Jared Polin. What I'm really looking for now is some fast action shot with an F mount 2.8 zoom and that F to Z adapter. I want to see if the auto focus is on par with the Sony A7. If all that works well then I could feasibly get into a Z6 for about $2200.

Searcy

Hmmmm... I see lots of pros and cons.

mhedges

Searcy said:

Hmmmm... I see lots of pros and cons.

Yeah. He mentions several times how it's beta firmware - I wonder how much will change upon the official release. He said in the comments he shot about 500 stills, took almost 20 minutes of video, and did some setup work in the menus and the battery was still at 44% after. So thats not bad at all. I'm having trouble reconciling that with the 320 (or whatever) CIPA rating and the rumor about only 10 minutes of battery live for videos.

He tested a Sigma ART lens on the adapter and said it did AF. So that's encouraging. I need to pick up a FF ultrawide and I'm not overwhelmed by Nikon's offerings.

Boy the comments on all these Z6/Z7 videos are brutal. I'm not sure why there is so much disappointment, other than the single card slot. They seem pretty equivalent to the Sony A7iii series, which is what I was expected. Heck, until recently it seemed like they wouldn't have IBIS but they do so that's nice.

Pistnbroke said:

Any reports on silent mode ..Thom Hogan etc do not mention it ?
Perhaps we should ask about recovery software for the XQD like you get with Sandisc

Polin mentions (and demonstrates) there is EVF blackout with silent shooting.

PB_PM said:

Why spend $250-300 on 3-4 EN-EL15bs when you get can a USB battery pack with the same amount of mAh as that for $50? For stills it's no big deal, but lets say that you are shooting 4k video, clean over HDMI, using an USB pack that sits in your pocket would be much simpler, rather than wasting time switching batteries every 10 minutes. The reason is simple, Nikon wants to sell battery packs or the AC adapter (high profit margin items), rather than making life easier for users.

Look I think companies will do whatever they can to make a buck just as much as the next guy, but I can't see them purposely crippling a $2-3.4K camera just to sell a few more $50 batteries. I think it's more a voltage issue. USB doesn't have a high enough voltage to allow the camera to operate off of.

If they really wanted to hose buyers they would have changed to an entirely different battery type. There's tons of these EN-EL15 batteries out there since pretty much all of the recent higher end Nikon DSLR's use them - I would bet many if not most potential mirror less buyers already have at least one extra. So there will not be as much of a need to buy spares since folks already have one.

Hiker

tc88 said:

Hiker said:

Some are getting upwards of 3000 + shots on the A7iii and still have 20% battery left.

So now, all of a sudden, it's ok for a mirrorless camera to have poor battery life, and it's ok now to add a battery grip to extend battery life.

First, not everyone is ok for a mirrorless to have poor battery life, maybe most people are not ok if they are used to battery life on a DSLR.

Second, for mirrorless, it's not the # of shots that consumes the bulk of battery, it's the duration that you keep it on, point at things and the EVF and AF keeps on working that consume the battery. Sure, if you keep your finger on the A7 shutter continuously in an electrical shutter mode, I don't doubt you may be able to fire off 3k+ shots before it dies. That probably take you 20 minutes. But can your A7 last a whole day shooting if you use it constantly?

My comment is based on past comments from the DSLR folk who dismissed mirrorless because of poor battery life and the need to add a grip with a second battery to come close to a DSLR. I feel into that crowd. NOW it's ok for Nikon's mirrorless to have a poor battery life and the CIPA ratings are not to be trusted. THAT was my point. And adding a grip to the "small" mirrorless was not ok then but ok now...hypocrisy at it's best.

PB_PM

Pistnbroke said:

Any reports on silent mode ..Thom Hogan etc do not mention it ?
Perhaps we should ask about recovery software for the XQD like you get with Sandisc

Yes there is silent mode, Gordan Lang of Camera Labs showed the option in his hands on video of the Z7.

Symphotic

HankB said:

Actually, it would be more reasonable to compare battery life between mirrorless WITH a battery grip vs DSLR WITHOUT a grip — configured that way, they are both about the same size and weight.

My wife keeps telling me to "get a grip"-- but I don't think this is what she means

WestEndFoto

Hiker said:

tc88 said:

Hiker said:

Some are getting upwards of 3000 + shots on the A7iii and still have 20% battery left.

So now, all of a sudden, it's ok for a mirrorless camera to have poor battery life, and it's ok now to add a battery grip to extend battery life.

First, not everyone is ok for a mirrorless to have poor battery life, maybe most people are not ok if they are used to battery life on a DSLR.

Second, for mirrorless, it's not the # of shots that consumes the bulk of battery, it's the duration that you keep it on, point at things and the EVF and AF keeps on working that consume the battery. Sure, if you keep your finger on the A7 shutter continuously in an electrical shutter mode, I don't doubt you may be able to fire off 3k+ shots before it dies. That probably take you 20 minutes. But can your A7 last a whole day shooting if you use it constantly?

My comment is based on past comments from the DSLR folk who dismissed mirrorless because of poor battery life and the need to add a grip with a second battery to come close to a DSLR. I feel into that crowd. NOW it's ok for Nikon's mirrorless to have a poor battery life and the CIPA ratings are not to be trusted. THAT was my point. And adding a grip to the "small" mirrorless was not ok then but ok now...hypocrisy at it's best.

DSLR folk is plural and a big crowd. There may be some folk who dismissed mirrorless and some who think it is it is OK. Are you suggesting that these are the same people or that all "DSLR folk" are these people? Also "NOW it's ok for Nikon's mirrorless to have a poor battery life and the CIPA ratings are not to be trusted." doesn't make sense if you think about it. You have stated that either "some" or "all" people are hypocrites. Which one? Do you mind clarifying your statement. Thanks.

Vipmediastar_JZ

Lets change the atmosphere in here.

I'm actually interested in how I could benefit using the Z7 with the 105mm 1.4 I use it with the Df and D850 and It does a well job. IBIS and focus points would be the bigger advantage here. Less camera shake and maybe the f1.4 focused shots would be "more" successful?

snakebunk

I think it will be excellent and expect auto focus, stabilization and image quality to be as good as it currently gets in a full frame camera.

Vipmediastar_JZ

BNH live discussion said its superb with the adapter and not front heavy. Exciting to hear.
Battery life 1k+ on the pre-production model.

donaldejose

We need the production models out and reviewed before many of the questions we ask can be answered. If it had two card slots I would have purchased the Z7 BUT only one card slot makes me too insecure to use either an Z7 or 6 as a main camera. Thus, I (probably mistakenly) relegate these Z bodies to backup or limited use cameras. I ordered a Z7 kit at 4 am but just canceled it today after seeing a few review on line and replaced it with a Z6 with the zoom lens and adaptor from Adorama and will now have to wait until probably next year before I actually receive it. The A6s higher ISO rating, WYSIWYG EFV, and silent shooting features attracted me. Note that the A7 ISO is the same as the D850 and the A6 ISO is one stop higher which might mean you can shoot "clean" with good color at ISO 12,800. That is higher ISO for a lot less money and makes the A6 the body I want to try out. Battery life will be solved by a grip that holds two batteries or takes the bigger D5 battery like the D850 and D500 grips do. The single card slot will be solved by one of two things, or both: either an almost zero XQD failure rate so we trust one card or later slightly larger bodies in the A8 series which contain two cards. I also note the comment I originally repeated about an f1.8 S series lenses performing like a f1.4 lens may well be about optical sharpness not light transmission. I have noticed a comment in a few places that the S series lens are optimized for sharpness wide open while older lenses are optimized about two stops down from wide open. Thus, in terms of sharpness a S1.8 lens maybe as sharp as a Nikor f1.4 lens stopped down to f1.8 or f2. We will see when production models are out for review.

Vipmediastar_JZ

^^^ good point on the S lens wide open.
Another cool point is you can tether to the computer straight form the body. No LR or C1 needed.

Vipmediastar_JZ

From a person that confirmed it with Nikon.

"Short weigh-in on the Nikon Z7 issue thus far not really addressed:

Its AF will only do -1EV unless the lens paired is f2 or faster. You read that right. So your $2500 70-200 and 24-70 2.8 lenses will only work down to -1EV. In 2018...

It’ll do -4EV with f/2 or faster lenses.

Read: it will only do better than -1EV with some primes.

So much for low light shooting." Info provided by Kishore Sawh

mhedges

Vipmediastar_JZ said:

From a person that confirmed it with Nikon.

"Short weigh-in on the Nikon Z7 issue thus far not really addressed:

Its AF will only do -1EV unless the lens paired is f2 or faster. You read that right. So your $2500 70-200 and 24-70 2.8 lenses will only work down to -1EV. In 2018...

It’ll do -4EV with f/2 or faster lenses.

Read: it will only do better than -1EV with some primes.

So much for low light shooting." Info provided by Kishore Sawh

The spec reads that with "Low light AF" (whatever that is) on it can go down to -4 ev. I sure hope that is the case. One of the things I appreciate most about the switch from the D5500 to the D7200 is the much better AF in low light and I wouldn't want to go a step back.