NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

donaldejose

"Low light AF" might activate a focusing helper light.

Msmoto

As delivery now will be next year for the Z6, I may wait a while to order. Have another project which is costing me a small bundle and was thinking I need to slow down on the cash outflow.... then I saw the MTF chart of the new 500/5.6.... Wow! And the light weight...

mhedges

donaldejose said:

"Low light AF" might activate a focusing helper light.

I doubt it's that. If it is then why have an EV value listed at all? And I don't see an AF assist light on the bodies.

I figured it was some different kind of AF mode that worked better in dim light.

Vipmediastar_JZ

I dont remember what video i saw it on but it had a green light for af assist with a speedlight vs the af beams from the speedlight.
The light is on the front top right.

mhedges

Vipmediastar_JZ said:

I dont remember what video i saw it on but it had a green light for af assist with a speedlight vs the af beams from the speedlight.
The light is on the front top right.

Ah ok. I was hoping that was a port for the IR remote. Anyone know if my trusty ML-L3 will work on these? Or will I have to shell out for the WR-T10?

manhattanboy

Dpreview on YouTube has the green AF assist light demonstrated as part of their way of showing the red lines from a speedlight don't fire with the new cameras.

Overall I think Nikon did a great job, and in fact better than I expected. I think the Z7 is about $400-$600 too expensive though; I wonder if they are overestimating sales for the Z7. The Z6 looks priced right, although I have to wonder about the AF system... Remember most of the reviews are with the "better" AF system of the Z7. I think if Nikon would have given the more advanced Z7 AF system on the Z6 it would have been a home run. Limiting the Z6 AF, and overcharging for the Z7 and adapter look a little greedy for a player trying to gain market share without alienating their existing customer base.

While tempting I probably am going to sit this round out. I have an A9, and everything that I need that sucks on the new Z cameras is addressed with the A9 (silent shooting without rolling shutter, no viewfinder blackout, available native telephoto lenses, deep buffer, SD cards, etc.). Hopefully Nikon will come stronger with their gen 2 products or their next release, although I don't want to pay more than what the Z7 costs.

[Deleted User]

Looking at the published Z Brochure, it references Diffraction Correction in Picture Control with the Expeed 6. So far in scanning reviews, this was not mentioned including by Ken Rockwell.

As a landscaper this is as interesting as the optical qualities of the new primes. It is likely just be another form of sharpening, but can't tell until we try it - many months down the road it seems.


I am pleased that Nikon did take up the challenge of some of my suggestions. It tells you they are listening and intently.

Symphotic

I originally preordered the Z7 from a few places. I just got a contract today that can pay for the Z7, but there is no urgency for this contract, so I cancelled all but one order and added an Atomos Sumo 19 and a few other cool bits that my client will pay for and keep. I still have to buy the body because that stays with me.
Since the job can be done with a D850, I can cancel the Z7 if I find a better use for the cash, I'll probably snag a new Ninja V as well.
If I didn't have the job, I'd probably get a Z6 instead of the Z7. A lot more reasonable in price/performance.

mhedges

Agree that the Z7 seems a bit too expensive given the only real difference is MP. I’m curious how different the AF systems really are. Is there really a significant difference between 493 and 273 AF points? After a certain number what does adding more really get you? The difference in AF points scales almost perfectly with the MP difference so I’m wondering if it’s more due to the architecture of the sensor layout rather than an actual feature difference.

Hopefully we will get some tear downs showing which components are different between the two. That will be interesting.

donaldejose

Seems like an honest review. I do hope firmware upgrades can fix these bugs. www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUii9dTwPkw

rmp

I think the blog page said "Chinese factory working at full capacity (100%) to produce Z7. The same factory will produce Z6." I'm 76, I wonder if I will live long enough to get the Z6 I pre-ordered?

retread

Well I am 74 and still waiting to order the D850. Hoping for a drop in price when you all trade up to the Z7 & Z6.

Hiker

WestEndFoto said:

Hiker said:

tc88 said:

Hiker said:

Some are getting upwards of 3000 + shots on the A7iii and still have 20% battery left.

So now, all of a sudden, it's ok for a mirrorless camera to have poor battery life, and it's ok now to add a battery grip to extend battery life.

First, not everyone is ok for a mirrorless to have poor battery life, maybe most people are not ok if they are used to battery life on a DSLR.

Second, for mirrorless, it's not the # of shots that consumes the bulk of battery, it's the duration that you keep it on, point at things and the EVF and AF keeps on working that consume the battery. Sure, if you keep your finger on the A7 shutter continuously in an electrical shutter mode, I don't doubt you may be able to fire off 3k+ shots before it dies. That probably take you 20 minutes. But can your A7 last a whole day shooting if you use it constantly?

My comment is based on past comments from the DSLR folk who dismissed mirrorless because of poor battery life and the need to add a grip with a second battery to come close to a DSLR. I feel into that crowd. NOW it's ok for Nikon's mirrorless to have a poor battery life and the CIPA ratings are not to be trusted. THAT was my point. And adding a grip to the "small" mirrorless was not ok then but ok now...hypocrisy at it's best.

DSLR folk is plural and a big crowd. There may be some folk who dismissed mirrorless and some who think it is it is OK. Are you suggesting that these are the same people or that all "DSLR folk" are these people? Also "NOW it's ok for Nikon's mirrorless to have a poor battery life and the CIPA ratings are not to be trusted." doesn't make sense if you think about it. You have stated that either "some" or "all" people are hypocrites. Which one? Do you mind clarifying your statement. Thanks.

Well, from the responses I'm reading on the Nikon forums most are hypocritical. Feel better by that statement? All that bashing, all that knocking Sony and others for the lack of many tech that the DSLR's had and mirrorless didn't. Now it's just fine and dandy?! And now the excuses are rolling out. One card slot was always in the first new set of cameras? Wow...I guess the one card slot debacle with the D7500 was swept under the rug. Old news...until yesterday. And I'm too old for English lessons so lighten up..

Photobug

Msmoto said:

As delivery now will be next year for the Z6, I may wait a while to order. Have another project which is costing me a small bundle and was thinking I need to slow down on the cash outflow.... then I saw the MTF chart of the new 500/5.6.... Wow! And the light weight...

That is what happens when you spend so much money to have equipment repaired...limits the funds available for new lens and bodies.

WestEndFoto

Hiker said:

WestEndFoto said:

Hiker said:

tc88 said:

Hiker said:

Some are getting upwards of 3000 + shots on the A7iii and still have 20% battery left.

So now, all of a sudden, it's ok for a mirrorless camera to have poor battery life, and it's ok now to add a battery grip to extend battery life.

First, not everyone is ok for a mirrorless to have poor battery life, maybe most people are not ok if they are used to battery life on a DSLR.

Second, for mirrorless, it's not the # of shots that consumes the bulk of battery, it's the duration that you keep it on, point at things and the EVF and AF keeps on working that consume the battery. Sure, if you keep your finger on the A7 shutter continuously in an electrical shutter mode, I don't doubt you may be able to fire off 3k+ shots before it dies. That probably take you 20 minutes. But can your A7 last a whole day shooting if you use it constantly?

My comment is based on past comments from the DSLR folk who dismissed mirrorless because of poor battery life and the need to add a grip with a second battery to come close to a DSLR. I feel into that crowd. NOW it's ok for Nikon's mirrorless to have a poor battery life and the CIPA ratings are not to be trusted. THAT was my point. And adding a grip to the "small" mirrorless was not ok then but ok now...hypocrisy at it's best.

DSLR folk is plural and a big crowd. There may be some folk who dismissed mirrorless and some who think it is it is OK. Are you suggesting that these are the same people or that all "DSLR folk" are these people? Also "NOW it's ok for Nikon's mirrorless to have a poor battery life and the CIPA ratings are not to be trusted." doesn't make sense if you think about it. You have stated that either "some" or "all" people are hypocrites. Which one? Do you mind clarifying your statement. Thanks.

Well, from the responses I'm reading on the Nikon forums most are hypocritical. Feel better by that statement? All that bashing, all that knocking Sony and others for the lack of many tech that the DSLR's had and mirrorless didn't. Now it's just fine and dandy?! And now the excuses are rolling out. One card slot was always in the first new set of cameras? Wow...I guess the one card slot debacle with the D7500 was swept under the rug. Old news...until yesterday. And I'm too old for English lessons so lighten up..

But jeez, the Sony and Canon (well, maybe not the Canon as much, they are humble these days) are just as much idiots. Why don't we focus on photography and ignore the idiots. They are just noisy idiots distracting me from figuring out what gear I need next.

PB_PM

Unless your D850 dies a random death, likely nothing, since short of not being able to get new batteries it and your glass will likely out live you. That’s kind of how I feel about the situation, since none of the manufactures are really offering anything with mirrorless that I cannot do now with my DSLRs. I guess they have more FPS, but I get enough redundant shots at the speed of my DSLRs, so why would I want more, and have my buffer fill faster? In the future that may change, but as things stand today it’s just a waste of money for systems that are not fully mature. When they are I’ll look again. The only big player left now is Canon, and my guess is that they will play it safe like Nikon.

tc88

retread said:

Well I am 74 and still waiting to order the D850. Hoping for a drop in price when you all trade up to the Z7 & Z6.

Few people who's sane will trade a D850 for a Z7. And it's definitely not a trade up.

tc88

Hiker said:

Well, from the responses I'm reading on the Nikon forums most are hypocritical. Feel better by that statement? All that bashing, all that knocking Sony and others for the lack of many tech that the DSLR's had and mirrorless didn't. Now it's just fine and dandy?! And now the excuses are rolling out. One card slot was always in the first new set of cameras? Wow...I guess the one card slot debacle with the D7500 was swept under the rug. Old news...until yesterday. And I'm too old for English lessons so lighten up..

Didn't you see that we complain about Z7/Z6 too in the last several pages? So lighten up too. BTW, D7500 is only $1k or so, so I wouldn't really complain about 1 slot on that budget.

Pistnbroke

mhedges…..

USB doesn't have a high enough voltage to allow the camera to operate off of.

Ever heard of a voltage doubler ?
and the camera cannot charge through the USB and be used because they have split the battery to allow the individual cells to be charged.
Only the en el 15 b battery can be charged in camera..( because it has two cells in it that require 4.3 v each to charge them ( ie 5v - the drop on a silicone diode) The charge control circuitry is built into a chip on the battery. I guess they have configured the surplus pins on the battery to allow this

donaldejose

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJhUT8g_qyw

donaldejose

Here is an idea for Nikon. Produce two versions of the Z7 and Z6: one with two SD cards and one with one XQD card. See which of the two versions sells best. It seems to me there is room in the memory card area for two SD cards so that could be an easy change as long as Nikon uses only the smaller and older tech (and cheaper) SD cards to achieve a two card slot body. Call the two SD card slot version the Z7.2 (for the two card version) or the Z7b (if Nikon is reserving the decimal point numbers for later iterations). Do the same with the Z6. Also, see if you can give the users eye auto focus as a free software update. Quickly respond to all the complaints so people stop saying the Nikon Z bodies are essentially like the last (not current) generation Sony A7 series. Too many people will now be saying that Nikon's mirrorless is a generation behind Sony's mirrorless. Don't wait for a two year refresh to bridge that gap.

Andrewz

Been too busy at work to comment as much as I'd like but got to keep working to buy more cameras....

Someone said "Mirrorless camera have poor battery life" really Mirrorless cameras have have higher power consumption than DSLR's (EVF's, constant power to the sensor, etc....) What has happened is that, Sony and Olympus under powering their cameras with small batteries. Now with Sony Z batteries it's not as bad.

I have a D750 and a Fuji X-Pro2. With my 750 I can turn it on and walk around all day shooting at will and never really think about battery life. With my X-Pro I turn it on as I bring it to my eye and when I'm done shooting and letting it hang on the strap I turn it off. I call this "mirrorless battery discipline", it's a different way of shooting based on the technology in my hands.

In the studio it's a different game. Did a shoot where we were working with a group of models and were shooting almost constantly for about 4 hours. I changed batteries on the D750 once, my co-shooter used 5 batteries for his Sony A7R II (it has the older W battery). Sound bad but in the studio you have power and charges and don't need worry about the extra weight, just the cost of having more batteries.

It will be good to see what real world battery consumption is like on the Z6 and Z7.

Pistnbroke

All the ones so far reviewed are pre production Beta versions ( idiots Nikon) so until we get the production version who knows.
I bet the firmware guys are doing overtime ..angry photographer says Nikon is in a panic about the bad reception …..

Andrewz

@Pistnbroke I'll have to admit my biggest pet peeve about Nikon fans is how critical they are of Nikon and over mostly stupid stuff. Everyones alway upset that the new camera isn't exactly what they want. Well get over it nothings perfect and any camera is going to be a compromise.

WestEndFoto

The bad reception will be a non-issue in a few years I believe, when the Z system will start to flesh out and any bugs that are in their first generation will be quickly worked out. I suspect that Nikon will iterate quite quickly with their Z cameras. And remember that there is still an 8 and 9 available in the numbering system, so I suspect that we will see a true professional camera soon. The Z7 and Z6 are D750 and D610 equivalents.

Of course, how painful this trajectory is will depend on how good Nikon's adapters are. I will be watching that closely.

And if Nikon produces a square sensor, I will salivate very quickly.